To not want SD coming on these holidays anymore?

[QueenCarmel]

SD is 13. DH and I have been together since she was 5, and we have DD5 and 3. We used to have SD three nights a week but since she started secondary, she’s stopped coming in the week and now rarely at weekends either. We are stricter than her mum on things like homework (she’s behind and it’s rarely done), bedtimes and screen time so she prefers to be at her mum’s house. When she’s here, it’s always under duress and she’s not pleasant to be around. Unfortunately, we have no contact order and have been advised that we are unlikely to get increased time as she’s old enough to decide.

We haven’t seen her since the end of May and she’s ignoring DH’s calls and texts (he has been inviting her here and also to things like the cinema or for a meal with just him). He has just received an email from her mum saying:

”X doesn’t want to come to your house anymore so stop messaging her about it. It’s harassment. She will see you on Saturday if you take her to (nearby city) as she needs new clothes and trainers. She’ll still come on the holidays too.”

The holidays are New York for my sister’s wedding in November and we have been planning a big Caribbean break for next year. I don’t think it’s fair for her to check out of our family entirely except for very expensive holidays.

I would not take her to NY. You have the right to enjoy that wedding and she would stop that from happening. I wouldn't take her on the other holiday either. She's rude, entitled and disrespectful. She doesn't even reply to messages and says she doesn't want to see her dad. She can't say "I don't want to see you but take me on holiday with you and I'll ruin it for you."

You haven’t seen her for six months?! Do you think she’s siding with mum or is it genuinely because mum lets her get away with more…

I wouldn’t take her to New York, not for an important event that isn’t yours.
I’d take her to the Caribbean/other family holidays etc but if she makes it unpleasant then it’ll be the last holiday she goes on. I’d make that crystal clear.

I wouldn’t take her to the wedding. No freaking way.

Invite her on more uk trips and if she says no or ignores you then simply don’t book her on the wedding or even mention it. You’re quite right that she only wants to go because of the insta opportunities and her behaviour doesn’t warrant it. Actions have consequences and if she kicks off afterwards you can legitimately say she didn’t want to come on numerous holidays so why is this one different. She won’t learn otherwise… alternatively leave hubby at home and take a friend to watch the younger kids or ask your parents to.. then your hubby will learn consequences too..

sto0p harrassing her but take her on holiday wtf

she needs to participate in family life

The mum can’t say it’s harassment to ask if his daughter wants to come over then say you can take her shopping and on holiday.

Teens are a weird time and she may just be going through things. I would be tempted to say that if she can’t bare to stay in your home for a weekend, a trip abroad with her isn’t happening . If there are tensions, they’ll be worse abroad with the stress.

Do not take her to a family wedding in NY,
that way madness lies. She will kick off if she cant do her insta life stuff
And, if as everyone says, she grows out of it, then great, she’ll realise she was behaving like a complete twat and you were being totally reasonable.
Caribs next year, keep the door open.

do whats best for you, not what a bunch of internet strangers think is best for you SD

I think the mother sounds like a big problem. Accusations of harassment for trying to maintain contact? Really? Also, the rude and entitled message with hints of blackmail sets a tone for the SD.
I wonder how much this behaviour is a product of the SD’s own thinking or the mother’s attitude.
I like the suggestion by a PP to include the SD in the trip on condition of regular weekend visits. It puts a certain pressure on the SD but makes it very clear that the Dad and the OP are committed to including the SD fully and regularly in their family life. Otherwise, I would not take her to the sister’s wedding - too much scope for drama and too much cherry picking by the kid.

@Kelly1969 they clearly don't though. At most it's a fairly even split.

Seems you’re worried SD will ruin the trip rather than not wanting her on it.

That’s more than reasonable reason to worry OP, and that’s what you need to sort out with DH.

I’m a stepmother. In the circumstances your describe, taking her on these trips will ruin them for you all. Being away from home will result in pushed boundaries, stress and more testing behaviour. I would tell DH he needs to repair his relationship with her another way and promise her a treat holiday when she is able to function within your family unit. You cannot let a child dictate that they won’t be seeing you except when you paid for luxury getaways! That is no way to have a healthy blended family.

Oh, and no one gets to cherry pick the cash and trips and ignore her father, DSM and sisters. Yikes. Admittedly, her DF cherrypicked leaving her, which you might have to address.

Ask her on a UK minibreak and don’t book her any tickets abroad. You’d do that with any child who needs to learn about inclusion and emotional bonds, not Tommy Hilfiger.

Obviously this. She doesn’t need to be at your sister’s wedding, they aren’t related.

be wary of setting a precedent where you're essentially buying her time. Going to the family wedding when she's not seen any of you for 6 months is bonkers.

Yes. Her 'relationship' with her father is entirely transactional. She will only see him if he's buying her something, or going on a long haul holiday. She's even refused UK trips with him, as they're not special enough.

If he folds on this, he will have created a monster.

This is nonsense. Of course it is different with your own child. For start you have a different relationship that helps you see things from their point of view. But if your own child refuses to do anything except accept luxury goods and trips this would also need nipping in the bud. The responsibility to see SD through a difficult patch lies with mum and dad and they should work together to decide a sensible approach that allows a good relationship between all parties. The fact mother is throwing out manipulative texts and reinforcing SD’s demands suggests she is not putting her child first, but trying to ‘punish’ her ex for whatever reason and wield power over him due to their having a shared child. None of this is in SD’s interests. I hugely recognise the scenario of a selfish manipulative mother and a passive father who is scared to further damage his relationship with his child and so gives in to ridiculous demands.

Stepmother does not have any power here other than to enforce her own boundaries (‘no you may not ruin my sister’s wedding so you get to come to New York’), and supporting her husband (‘if it is important to you yes she can come to the Caribbean, but we need to establish a good routine of respect and regular contact first’). Honestly if OP just sucks this up to maintain the peace she will start to massively resent her husband and her own kids will end up with a broken home too. The responsibility to raise a child remains the parents and the frustrating about step-parenting is no one who isn’t a stepmother understands the tiny amount of influence and power you actually have in the relationship.

Taking SD away in the situation described by OP would not be in anyone’s interests except perhaps her husband’s ex. It will breed resentment, ruin the trips, further damage the relationships in the family and costs a huge amount of money. There is no point in martyring one’s own life at the altar of other people’s opinions about what blended family life ‘should’ look like.

She's been asked on two UK breaks already and refused them both.

OP says: "We have. There was an incident during the Easter holidays where she wanted to go to a much older teen’s party, DH said no but she could have a friend to stay, they snuck out to go to the party having stolen our alcohol. DH realised at about 3am, went immediately to get her, and basically extracted her. There was a lot of drinking, drugs and adults. He embarrassed her basically (she made a scene refusing to leave) and she hasn’t forgiven him. She went back to her mum’s the next day and contact has been sporadic ever since."

This is a massive safeguarding issue and your DH should be very concerned! Your SD is at risk here and she is very young and vulnerable. Clearly her mother is failing her.
It is time to get professional help! You have a much greater issue here than the shopping trip - a child at an adult party at 3am, with alcohol, drugs and adults?!?

I agree with the poster who said you should prioritise your sister for the wedding. If you genuinely believe DSD will kick off, attention seek or do a disappearing act she shouldn't come. The focus should be on celebrating with your sister on her special day, not your DH trying to manage the behaviour of a 13 year old who otherwise opted out of your family.

Yep, I wouldn’t allow her on the NY trip given that escapade was the last time your DH saw her. What happens when she sneaks off to go partying and taking drugs with adults in NYC?

From past behaviour, her ability to assess risk seems to be zero, and she has made it clear she doesn’t want to actually spend time with any of you. So, is she going sit nicely at a boring family wedding with a stepfamily she doesn’t even like, or is she going to try to impress her older friends back home by sneaking off and exploring NYC’s nightlife all by herself?

A wedding is busy enough that she could easily slip away while your DH is dealing with the younger kids. Then what - how would you even start to try to find her?

Maybe because she gets him to herself on those days too? Encourage your husband to do what he needs to do to maintain some sort of relationship with his daugther. She’s only 13 and needs her dad. Normal for girls around this age to push boundaries. He needs to keep in contact.

I've only ready your posts @QueenCarmel, so apologies if this has already been suggested.

I would ask DH to get in touch with DSD and her mother and let them know that he is unhappy with the distance that has formed between him and DSD over the last few months, and if she wants to come on these trips, they (DH and DSD) need to work on rebuilding their relationship first. Once things are back on an even keel for DH and DSD, you can work on rebuilding the relationships between you, your DC and DSD. Then, if things are better, you can make a decision on whether DSD will be able to come on the trips.

I wouldn't take her to your DSis's wedding as things stand, as it's your DSis's day that is at risk of being ruined, but I'd probably still take her on the family holiday, as excluding her from the "family" trip would probably push her even further away. I'd definitely ensure DH had stern words about behavioural expectations in advance though.

He has offered her two different UK breaks for just the two of them. She's turned him down.

She's being highly manipulative and cherry picking. And whatever is behind it isn't well served by her father capitulating.

I’ve not RTWT but think a pertinent question to ask here is - if in 10 years time your DDs start sneaking out, drinking, taking the piss with tricky behaviour, playing you and your partner off against eachother, refusing family time apart from when it suits them etc etc, can you see yourself excluding them from really important key family events?

Your stepdaughters behaviour is obviously really tough - but all behaviour is communication and she’s obviously having a very hard time. I’d urge you not to exclude a kid who sounds like she’s in bad place or be conditional with who gets to do what. She might seem grown up but she’s not - you’re the adults, she needs parents right now.

I feel a little empathy for the SD in the way her parents split while she was young - not sure why there is no background to this (does that play a part in what is happening now?). Then she would see her dad play happy families with another woman.

My DH’s dad had an affair and left, while DH and his sibling were also very young (in nappies). I think it stays with the kid their whole lives and really shapes their thinking.

I think there is a lot more to untangle than going on holidays.

Oh gosh, don't bend over backwards for this little princess! If you let her make the rules, she'll just grow up to be an entitled monster.

Why not let OH take her shopping. He can suggest to her during the trip that if she comes over to yours every other weekend until the holiday, you'll take her with you. Then it's her call whether she wants to make the effort or not. That way you'll also (maybe) get some bonding time with her, and get a chance to bring the relationship back from the brink.

Kids that age do need to start realising it's not a one way street where they get to demand whatever they want and have the adults dancing to their tune. Honestly, if you don't put your foot down and just bring her to holidays regardless of her behaviour, she'll grow up to be someone who you really don't want to be around.

Best of luck xx