To not want SD coming on these holidays anymore?

[QueenCarmel]

SD is 13. DH and I have been together since she was 5, and we have DD5 and 3. We used to have SD three nights a week but since she started secondary, she’s stopped coming in the week and now rarely at weekends either. We are stricter than her mum on things like homework (she’s behind and it’s rarely done), bedtimes and screen time so she prefers to be at her mum’s house. When she’s here, it’s always under duress and she’s not pleasant to be around. Unfortunately, we have no contact order and have been advised that we are unlikely to get increased time as she’s old enough to decide.

We haven’t seen her since the end of May and she’s ignoring DH’s calls and texts (he has been inviting her here and also to things like the cinema or for a meal with just him). He has just received an email from her mum saying:

”X doesn’t want to come to your house anymore so stop messaging her about it. It’s harassment. She will see you on Saturday if you take her to (nearby city) as she needs new clothes and trainers. She’ll still come on the holidays too.”

The holidays are New York for my sister’s wedding in November and we have been planning a big Caribbean break for next year. I don’t think it’s fair for her to check out of our family entirely except for very expensive holidays.

When your littlies hit their teens and start acting up, are you going to banish them from family holidays as well?

Your DH will do whatever it takes to maintain as good a relationship as possible with his own DD just as you would move heaven and earth to maintain a relationship with your DCs.

Your job is to support him.

Indeed. But if it seems like dad is saying, aw, we don't want to make you feel sad with our nasty harassment, maybe a sly reminder of her young siblings would be useful...

I would compromise and have done with my sd in the past. Dh taking her shopping don’t get involved, that’s up to him really and up to him to parent that I’d ignore it and carry on as though it didn’t happen.
New York trip a no. This is a wider family event and as she isn’t participating in family events now she can no longer be invited.
the other holiday I would potentially leave open for now see where you are in six months.

shes 13 she’s pushing her boundaries and is tired of two homes. My dds stopped going to their dads and have an ok relationship with him. Sd was forced by both parents to continue the pattern and at nearly 18 it was one of the reasons she cut him off totally

Book without her and go. If she doesn’t want to see her Dad day to day then she won’t want to go on holidays of a lifetime with him either. She’s old enough to know better, but has made her decision. Her loss. Send her a postcard.

Do tell us how we can do that if she won’t see me at all and DH only once every few months for him to buy her stuff.

We have been trying to help her to improve her behaviour. When a teen has another home to go to, they can choose to go to it whenever you say something they don’t like.

@QueenCarmel the statement that you could’ve enforced boundaries to make you the better parent isn’t quite true because she was with you when that incident happened. She steal from you and she did sneak out. You can’t play the moral high ground card that she’d be better off with you because these things have gone on in your home and under your rules. You aren’t better than her mum and maybe she senses this and that’s some of the drive for staying away

This is the problem. When you have children, or choose to marry someone that already had a child, you don't simply get to offload the responsibility of parenthood in favor of "being less stressed or distracted."

Continuing that responsibility, looking out for what is best for that child, despite the difficulty, stress, and lack of convenience for yourself, is what it takes to be a good parent. You include your child, even when they are a moody teenager . . . even when they are testing the waters for what they can or cannot get away with. You set "realistic" expectations, give them fair warning about outcomes should expectations not be met, and, above all else, show confidence that they can make the right choices and give them the opportunity to illustrate that.

But be prepared that even when you do this, children will make mistakes. It is how you respond to that that makes the difference. There are a lot of people on this board that appear to expect perfection, lack empathy and understanding of how "childhood" is a learning experience, and as often is the case, children learn from their mistakes. The key is that when they are learning, they are not made to feel as though they are worthless, and unloved.

People on here expecting "adult-level" behavior out of a thirteen-year-old that is in the middle of a broken family unit, trying to fit into two different households, and so willing to exclude when she cannot illustrate that adult-level behavior have either no empathy or have forgotten what it is like to be a teen, with a brain still in the process of developing, especially the centers of causality.

He said no to the party, but we ordered pizzas and set up the games room for them as a compromise. That was a boundary. She couldn’t stay at her mum’s that weekend as mum was away and she was locked out.

The problem isn’t really that behaviour - I know a lot of teens do similar, it can be a phase, it can be worked on etc. The problem is that she can then choose to go back to her mum’s whenever she wants to avoid boundaries or discipline or expectations. She can’t opt out of family life but expect to keep the financial perks. Basically, she wants us to treat her like she’s 18 but she’s barely 13.

I think you miss the point here.

The issue is that boundaries were enforced saying she can’t go and again re: going to get her which is what she didn’t like.

She was 12 at the time. To hell with embarrassing her this was safeguarding territory.

And it is very, very difficult if the co-parent wants to be the “cool” parent who she can flounce back to.

Can you go to your sisters wedding on your own? So it’s off the table but you’re not excluding her either? You’ll get to enjoy it without damaging your relationship with her. Your other DDs will miss out but they’ll be too young too mind.

You can also decide on the Caribbean holiday later.

If your Dh wants to take her shopping then leave them to it. It's his child and his relationship.
Does the EX know about the wedding and other holiday and has told DSD.
I wouldn't invite her to either.

Came to say much of the same!

13-15 kiddos can get a bit weird and do things that make little sense to our adult brains. She sounds like a perfectly normal selfish teenager lol. I promise this horrid behaviour (and it did drive me nuts lol) ends in a few years. Then they’re usually back to nice, normal and rational people. Keep reaching out the olive branch she’ll be grateful for it soon enough.

If she already knows about the NY trip I think that excluding her now would cause terrible long lasting and damage to you and your husbands relationship with her. Her involvement in your family shouldn't be conditional. If she was an adult it might be a different story but at her age be very careful.

The mother has accused you of harassing her daughter which is a crime. Id back right off

She can also do one for the holidays. New York is your sisters wedding. She is not a blood relative of your sister and with the stained relationship I cant see why she'd be invited at all.

This is how . . .

Set increased visits (and be specific . . . whatever number of days a week, duration, etc.) as a requirement to go on the trip with you to NYC.

If you do this, you are showing that you want to spend more time with her, but also that whether she goes on the trip (that she clearly wants to go on) is also within her control.

This is a form of blackmail for sure, but it is a positive form, and if you explain to her and make sure that you do not let contrary feelings betray you in your choice of words and tone, that you are asking for this because you "love her, miss her and want her to be more a part of your active family life," then this will do wonders.

It won't work overnight, and again, she is a teen with an onslaught of hormones, a brain that is continuing to develop, especially in the areas of cause/effect relationships. She will continue to make mistakes. You must reassure her that you love her, even when she disappoints you, and be consistent in your discipline and follow-through with consequences.

Make sure that whatever expectations you set for her are "realistic" for age and brain development. You do not want to create impossible expectations that are piled on to her. Introduce new ones slowly as her visits increase, she becomes more comfortable, etc. Try to plan fun family outings that all of you will enjoy together.

When you can, focus on the positive that she brings and make those types of comments. When children only hear complaints, disappointments, criticism and corrections from parents, they internalize that. You should have as many compliments for the complaints. Build her self-esteem rather than break it down.

I dont think she should come to the wedding really.Too stressful and its your Sisters day after all.Maybe decide nearer the time about the caribbean trip.Teenagers are a pain ,but you mat alienate her late if you cut all contact

Her father could spend money on her, just a suggestion.

Don't be silly. A non resident dad's place is in the wrong!

This^ sounds a good reasonable plan for a teenager.
I also think that your DH should have a think for himself about possible compromises and what is non negotiable for him and stick to his boundaries for the future.

I agree what's the point of having an earlier bedtime and enforcing homework when she won't come - so she isn't having any earlier bedtimes and her homework doesn't happen anyway.

I think your husband should take his daughter on the shopping trip and while they are there and have lunch or whatever he should ask her if she will start coming to his house again if she, your husband and her mum can agree a couple of things like bedtime. E.g. if bedtime is 11 at her house it is 11 at yours also.

He could tell her that he is worried about taking her to New York because of some of her recent behaviour and if she wants to come she needs to show him that she can stick to the agreed plan e.g. coming over once and week and going to bed at 11. He could say if she wants to show that she can behave then he will make a decision at the end of the summer hols.

I think it is a bit of a shame that she was already invited to New York as it's your sisters wedding and so not really necessary that she go but as she has been invited it's a big deal to take it away and should only happen for major issues and not for little things.

If she doesn't want to come over any more and there is nothing he can reasonably do to change her mind then no I probably wouldn't take her to New York after not seeing her for 6 months.

She can't turn up when she wants she's a child.

Sorry no holiday.

The mum’s message says a lot about her to be honest!

So basically she’s calling all the shots and your DH is letting her? She needs to know she can’t opt in and out of family life - fine to go shopping together with her Dad but she’s learning she can behave however she wants to towards him, you and her siblings and then still gets money spent on her when she chooses and is calling the shots. It’s

I’d be wary about the New York trip too. If you can’t trust her to keep herself safe when staying with you, then can you trust that she won’t run off when you’re in New York?! That would be horrendous and extremely dangerous.

What’s your DH doing to keep the relationship going if her mother is saying he needs to stop contacting her unless he’s taking her shopping or on very expensive holidays?

It needs to made clear that she doesn't get to cherry pick. If she wants to come on the big holidays and do the fun stuff then she needs to put some effort into the week to week relationships.

Honestly, if she were an adult I’d say YANBU… but she’s 13! Her brain is immature and her hormones are all over the place. Yes she’s being horrible but she’s endured her parents splitting up plus a step mother and new half siblings being with her father full time whilst she has to contend with her parents living apart.

Pushing her out completely is likely to do her more harm at a very vulnerable time. How we see our parents behave has a massive influence on our adult relationships so I’d suck it up and take her on the holidays. See it as an opportunity to role model mature adult behaviour and strengthen bonds between her and her half siblings. Show her love, patience and acceptance now and it will pay off in spades later. I’m not saying tolerate bad behaviour but saying she’s not welcome at all because she’s not engaging with you on the terms you want is an incredibly horrible way to treat a child and could do untold damage to her future relationship with her father.