Am I being unfair? Discipline by new eXW & DP

[wildfish]

Okay step parents, shoot me down, flame me, barbecue me. Jammi & youcannotbeserious welcome Maybe I should have name changed!

I am expressing my initial and current feelings, rightly or wrongly.

I picked up DS (4) this afternoon, and apparently DS - told me - that new SDad was upset, because as DS was waiting for me he opened the inner door (of a flat type block safe place - second intercom door) and closed it, cos he thought I was there - he says he saw me in the window. He was told not to do that by SD.

Now at night, many many hours later, as he is supposed to say bye at bedtime on the phone, she says you been naughty today, (she says its not my business on what) and then makes him explain to her why he was naughty, he says he thought I was at the door, but she says when she or DP say no, he must listen, and then when he says sorry, she puts DP on phone and he has to agree he was naughty again and apologise to DP, who says you are nice most of the time, but naughty some of the time. She then comes back on and says when anyone, especially her or him say no, he must obey.

DS says to me they will be happy now, and when they say no, they mean no.

Note before new DH SD, there was no such absolute discipline. New DH became DH about 2 weeks ago, and was new DP 3 months now.

Okay so its my DS, and she is an X, and he is new DH (who I haven't met yet), and surely I am biased, and I have different levels of no means no (only for the most dangerous or bad behaviour). But I still feel annoyed that DS was made to say sorry to both over such a trivial thing to me, at bedtime over the phone so many hours later.

Go on set me straight - I'm new to this. No doubt over reacting to this, and it really isn't my business. (but still annoyed)

It does strike me that the core of the issue is your XW's horrible new partner, and it would not be entirely unreasonable to say (in both mediation and at court) that while you appreciate that your son needs a relationship with his mother, why on earth should he have to have any more than minimal contact with this unpleasant, bullying man who frightens him and intimidates him? Your XW's partner is no relation to your son and has no rights over him, and you could insist on supervised access for DS mum only.

I meant by being ultra neutral, however you've said most recently he's resisting going I really think you are so stuck between a rock and a hard place and I do think your X is the problem as much as her new h because she seems clueless about what children are like and what their emotional needs are!!!

Do you feel strong enough to pull the plug on the phone calls, ie tell her that they are not happening anymore because they are making ds unhappy? I think his time at home with you needs to be free from interference from his Mum and SD and I think you have every right to insist on that - I don't think the courts would ever reinstate it, overnight visits yes but not these wretched phone calls.

I would also insist that all contact with you is made in writing only.

When your ds goes to school is your X going to be able to pick him up from there (a while off I know but who knows how long mediation will take). Do you work or are you a full time SAHD?

Funny, am I strong enough to pull the plug on the phone calls....sounds so easy and I should, yet I feel it will be presented as some sort of revenge by me. DS still hates the calls (again this is new), he is always trying to get the red button. I am sure they think I press it though! The calls used to be fine. She used to phone in the morning too on the weekeneds when she got up around 10/11. That was stopped by her.

Oh school school ....counting down 11weeks gulp. I can drop him off 5 days, and pick him up 3 days (maybe 5). She has previously said he can go in after school care so she can pick him up this from a 1/2 day nursery to full day school (Why when I am still alive and can pick him up? - her quote "just so he has memories of her picking him up") She then said she would change hours. We shall see.

I am a SAHD in full time work. Just very flexible employers at the moment, so I can work from home 3 days and arrive late on the other 2 (and leave early). (They do get their pound of flesh though out of hours).

DS says to me today, "is that the end?" "I don't have to go to mum's house anymore?" Poor kid wait till you find out they are back on Saturday, and expecting DS to have missed them sooo much.

Oh on rhe ultra neutral under the old gameplan. Yes he was going, but they/her changed the game plan. Patience ran out. Action was required now. And it backfired. (Sometimes I wonder truly wonder, why it is not obvious to the other side. Is it really so easy to blame me? Surely if the goal is to fix it, then look carefully and fix)

I think you have to accept your X has a screw loose when it comes to how dc are. You are ALWAYS going to be blames by them for the how the situation is - try and grow some armour (thick skin will not be enough).

Truly just put in writing that they are not to phone your son anymore because he does not want to speak to them and they are not to phone you anymore because of the nastiness of what it said. Are the visits twice per week???? Also put in in the letter/note that you are focusing on making your ds tie with you a positive enjoyable time and how enjoyable their time with ds is, is up to them not up to you or your ds because he is only 4!

Good luck! I think it will all flare up but if they call just hang up (or unplug the phone??) but I think there needs to be some distance put in place for your ds sake. He is having to speak to someone every day and it is upsetting him - he deserves a few days off each week at the very least.

If you weren't about to start mediation I would just encourage you to stop contact altogether but it will only be reinstated altogether so it would be a bit pointless I think. The best way forward is to try and think up and implement strategies that would make it easier for your ds - not easy by any means.

Well, I post here since this is my long soap opera running.

Mediation 3 way, was a bad session. Just arguing amongst ourselves. Going over old ground, exchanging claims and counter claims. The mediator lacked imposition I felt, too meek.

Anyway at the end I asked X whether DS starting school meant anything to her, and she said he has 20 years to get over school, her relationship to DS was more important to her and DS relationship to stepDad too. She said 1. his development, 2. the relationship 3. the school start. (which starts in 10-11 weeks).

X also said mediation was at an end and "she felt sorry for DS that he has to now go through a court system where he will be forced to stay 2 nights a week" and she will spend 30K doing that. I did say I was ready for more mediation. But she says I would be just dragging out the process.

So now it is court I guess.

Oh yeah she does blatantly lie a lot. Shouldn't be surprised, but I am. I had to offer proof of some behaviour before she shut up.

Thanks jammi. I find this whole process so exhausting and we not even at court ! (And you are going for round 2)

I am weighing up current solicitor vs much more expensive (but recommended) solicitor, vs whether self presentation is the way. My current solicitor is very straight, and competent, but lacks the killer instinct. Which is great if her description of Scottish family court is accurate - its about talking and getting the best for the child, not about name calling etc.

But I can't help but worry at the lies that get told, and if I don't responded to them, does that not leave the implication that they are correct.

If this were an American TV Law show there would be no problem. The lies could be shown up to be lies in minutes through cross examination.!

Also wondering whether to keep trying to appeal to X directly to talk about son or to just let it play out. It is so obvious that a recent email exchange was going via a 3rd party and that 3rd party views appeals as weakness. Perhaps her getting a decent lawyer might put some sense into her.

there's not too much you can do/say on her legal team tbh - it's her own choice who she uses.

what's frustrating is to me she still doesn't seem to be putting her child first - yes she wants a relationship with her child, & the new P but at what cost - the whole he has 20 years to get over school comment is well, tbh now is the time he learns the basics. it's not as important as something's but it still shouldn't be over looked. Perhaps she needs help (or classes - and I dont' mean that to sound patronising towards her) but telling your child the law man is going to take them/their daddy away is just plain wrong, bang out of order. She should be told/shown/encouraged to talk to your son in a pleasant manor. having conversations etc - not talking at or down to him - yes he's a child but still understand iycwim.

re your own legal team, how do you feel you would get on if she did find a very good sols. to fight in her corner? in that respect it might well be better finding different representation for yourself? then again thou I am not up to speed at all with how the scottish system works.

(also replied to your CAT, wasn't ignoring it honestly, but don't check that email often )

Back again, just so tired, there is a continuous daily barrage of firing going on.

I don't know whats wrong with me.

She makes a demand. I feel compelled to explain why I say no. This leads to the same demand again. Again I have to explain. Again the demand is repeated. Sometimes this can go on for 5-6 rounds.

What is the best way of saying NO. I mean I read and have been told that acting like a mad mother scares away the other partner. But I am always scared acting mad like that weakens my position - yet it always seems to work for people in life. (in these cases and work!)

Why do I find the need to act and behave reasonably?

IF your course of action is reasonable then you do not have to explain it, but it can help with normal people (not your ex then, it does have to be said). Just say no. If she starts again, say no again and say you will refuse to discuss the matter further. If she starts again, hang up or walk away.

She needs to realise that you are the resident parent, and that although you both have responsibility for your son the final decision must lie with you.

Good luck

Madmuggle, maybe I should just make you my solicitor in kind

You know I do want to just say NO. But these guys treat all comms as some legal document, where if I don't reply, I imply acceptance of their terms.

And I just have that hope that explanations might help have a nicer environment for DS. But I think that DP of hers is someone who just demands and does not accept people not bowing before him (she will be in for a shock once the honeymoon period is over).

I tell you if it wasn't about DS, if it was about anything else I think by now I would just refuse to talk to them.

Okay here is the most stupid example so far.

X bans DS seeing cousins in London, for a variety of reasons. Including X would miss out on quality time & punishment for me.
X going away (not to London) and I (unasked) already offer days around her trip to make up for lost time (some would interpret as a sign of weakness)
I say I am taking DS to London (for ONE day over weekend)
X says nothing
X midweek says very formally "I understand from DS you are going to London, I want DS for 3 hours in London, let me know when is convenient"
I naturally refuse (I mean 14 hours of driving and she wants to eat up the limited time he has with cousins, when she is the one not concerned with going away).
Her reasons are DS should spend as much time as possible with her - eh? Why you going away then?
We ping pong ping pong. Eventually she admits she doesn't get the chance to go anywhere else with DS and wants to do some fun with him in London.

In the end I don't go (to do with advice of take a break you idiot your too tired)

Imagine a different conversation
X no ban on cousins
X going away - I need to go to blah blah blah
I going to London
X says, I don't get a chance to take DS away anywhere, can we arrange that I can get some time in London with him too.
I say okay, lets make it the end or start of trip so he gets uninterrupted time with cousins (he wouldn't be happy being taken away)
So everyone wins.

argggggggggggh its that stupid new partner, and his approach you don't give in just demand. No talking no conversation [Me wants to break something] But she also refuses to talk without the puppet master.

Sorry just ranting. Must accept this is the new scenario and reasonableness is out the window. No opportunity for talking. Must remain calm, and just deal minimalistically with the situation. Simple No.

Should have added about trip, when I said its too small, she simply adds well thats your problem you could leave later. I mean chose your words to inflame huh. A simple could you extend it, so I could get some funtime too? Might have had better results, non?

She sounds like a pathetic and very deluded bitch.

Sorry and all

It sounds as though you need to be firmer about when she has him and when you have him. Your weekend up to you where you go, asking for time on your weekend the week before is unreasonable. 3 hours is too short for most things anyway.
How can your ex ban your son from seeing his cousins? If his cousins on your side surely it is up to you if he sees them or not. I'm divorced and one reason things have worked well is that we stick to dates and times of access, but are both prepared to be flexible if advance notice given. We also don't tell the other what to do when they have our son, the only thing we have to agree on is if we're taking him overseas.
Why not just say to your ex "no, I have plans for this weekend, you can take him a different weekend" and still go to London.
You do sound afraid of her, similarly if she goes on about an issue tell her firmly you've discussed it and won't change your mind.
You are only getting tired because you let her wind you up. Be firmer.
My ex and I also only discuss our son's arrangements with each other. We are his parents, we make decisions. Your ex can discuss hers with her new husband but you shouldn't have to negotiate with him.

Truth of the matter is yeah I am scared of her. But not because of me, but of DS.

I think this time I am going to say that. She has informed me she wants next weekend days swapped as she has to go somewhere. I've said I have plans. Funny she expects me to alter those plans to suit her.

She is plotting a very clever game, of proving I am a useless parent, and how she is a better parent. DS did not get a good development review. Nursery and Psychologist have a suspicion of "borderline autism". (I am not convinced as no one will come out and say it). However she is trying to use that as evidence that he is not stimulated enough at home (e.g. me) and not interacting with children (my fault as nursery time doesn't count).

I've tried reasoning with her, this time she said if DS has to be broken emotionally then it is better in the long run and she will get a shrink to fix him.

sigh, how did I ever get married to this mad woman.

I dunno wildfish. We don't seem to know the depths to which the people we love can sink. Love is, as the well recited old adage would say, utterly blind.

I seriously wish you could get proofs that would be admissible in court of some of the things she is coming out with. I suspect they would go a great way to helping any judge see that you are a much more stable parent than your ex will ever be.

Fingers crossed for you

Lol you won't believe this but the best quotes she comes out with, my stupid recorder doesn't record...when it counts.... conspiracy (I know the recordings can't be used, but could be referred to)

omg she didn't actually say that did she!! i'm sorry but she doesn't deserve your lovely(sounding) DS. what kind of parent would think such a thing!!
aaarrrrrggghhh!!! soooooo angry on your behalf. are you sure you don't want her "sorted" (only kidding)

you know that you are a good parent. don't let her make you feel as if you are not. she will have won. tbh i would give up on trying to reason with her. your DS is settled with you. ime the courts tend to look on that more favourably than any crap she slings your way. so long as you stick to your guns and continue to be reasonable (which i think you have been more than) you will be fine. just remember, your DS thinks the world of you. you are a great dad and that is more important than all the games she's playing. don't ever feel that you're not doing a good job. the development review means nothing unless it is put into context. and autism has absolutely nothing to do with stimulation at home or otherwise, so don't listen to that load of tripe.

if you suspect that he might be autistic try and gather as much info as you can so that you have knowledge on your side. i would find the links for you but have had too much wine took me ages to type this...

break him emotionally indeed

tell me about it

Also imagine someone saying this with absolute venom

"You are turning him into a nerd with all this dinosaur crap"

This was a result of the psychologist saying he was surprised when DS was shown a hippo pic, and said thats a hippo (fine) and he's a herbivore. The fact that DS currently is into dinosaurs and prehistoric animals and some current animals.

So a 4 year old, knowing dinosaur names and what they are is now a nerd! She and her DP have already told DS that dinosaurs are boring, boring, boring and he cant talk about them.

aaaarrrrrgggghhh!!!!! what's wrong with being a nerd!!!! i would be seriuosly impressed if my DS knew what a herbivore was at age 4. he can identify cars makes and models at a glance so that must make him a nerd. are you sure these 2 are actually helping your DS grow into a rounded person??? they seem to want him to be a certain way. my blood pressure is sky high!!!!!

does she care that she's hurting the most precious thing that she has created? i can tell you now, if she goes on like this he will hate her when he's older. i've just been trying to console DSD1(16) because her mother (i shall use the term veeery loosely) has told her that she is useless and irresposible. the trigger for this outrage..... DSD1 didn't fancy the boy that her mum thought would be perfect for her. she tells her that she should be thinking of settling down and having kids, pref boys cos she "never had any", and when she disagrees she's useless. DH was furious. the boy in question was someone that they had met on hols and had come up from dublin. DSD1 was not pleased and was even less pleased to come home from work to find them pissed out of their skulls. she had gone to see her mum after work and ended up having to care for her younger sister. DH did some digging and found out that the boy had been done for drugs/drinking, jobless and no interest in getting one. he seemed to think that it would impress DH that he could drink so much and this is what her mother thinks would be suitable boyfriend material suffice to say DSD1 has refused to go and see her mum and we are now told it's our fault..... she really hates her mum right now and i feel bad for her not one ounce of pity for MOTY (mother of the year, on account of her oscar winning performances in public)

That is sad. I was hoping I suppose rather optimistically that as a child grows older they get less impacted. But I know thats not the case. I guess it was my hope.

DS already has moved from 90/10 (love/hate) as in you couldn't say anything bad about her, to I think its at 20/80, where he openly talks about dinosaurs doing x,y,z to her and her DP. (but I know he still loves her too).

The other day, she came to take him, he was messing around (running around the garden), as "he has to delivered into the car ready to go" it proves I have no discipline on him. She doesn't lift a finger.

Anyhow it was said this is mummy and DS time, and he turned around to her and said what about mummy, DS and daddy time! She then said mummy and daddy are divorced because they couldn't live together and always fought. So he says to her "then you stop fighting and you move back".

My reaction to that was awww poor baby, give him a hug (he was with her so I couldn't), since this was first time he ever said anything like this. Her reaction was to turn to me, glaring and spit out "why haven't you dealt with this".

Push for supervised contact. She may not be physically harming him, but psychologically she could be doing so much damage