Am I being unfair? Discipline by new eXW & DP

[wildfish]

Okay step parents, shoot me down, flame me, barbecue me. Jammi & youcannotbeserious welcome Maybe I should have name changed!

I am expressing my initial and current feelings, rightly or wrongly.

I picked up DS (4) this afternoon, and apparently DS - told me - that new SDad was upset, because as DS was waiting for me he opened the inner door (of a flat type block safe place - second intercom door) and closed it, cos he thought I was there - he says he saw me in the window. He was told not to do that by SD.

Now at night, many many hours later, as he is supposed to say bye at bedtime on the phone, she says you been naughty today, (she says its not my business on what) and then makes him explain to her why he was naughty, he says he thought I was at the door, but she says when she or DP say no, he must listen, and then when he says sorry, she puts DP on phone and he has to agree he was naughty again and apologise to DP, who says you are nice most of the time, but naughty some of the time. She then comes back on and says when anyone, especially her or him say no, he must obey.

DS says to me they will be happy now, and when they say no, they mean no.

Note before new DH SD, there was no such absolute discipline. New DH became DH about 2 weeks ago, and was new DP 3 months now.

Okay so its my DS, and she is an X, and he is new DH (who I haven't met yet), and surely I am biased, and I have different levels of no means no (only for the most dangerous or bad behaviour). But I still feel annoyed that DS was made to say sorry to both over such a trivial thing to me, at bedtime over the phone so many hours later.

Go on set me straight - I'm new to this. No doubt over reacting to this, and it really isn't my business. (but still annoyed)

lol jammi: You certainly put the shivers up me there.

The order of priorities seemed so clear cut to me, and yet you managed to turn that one over ... you a lawyer?

I didn't in the end, refuse contact, because I was given a text message that stated as per agreed usual times. I felt that wouldn't look good for credibility if they lied [give more weight to other concerns]. Still the tension for the day for me was high.

I just don't know if I should kick of residency order proceedings, wait for mediation, or hope to stall it until DS is actually ready.

That really is the key for me, if DS is happy to go (or even simply not distressed) I could handle it. Seeing him distressed and subsequently emotionally distressed just breaks me too much to let it happen without a fight. (Today he was more frustrated than before, when coming back). And once again didn't want to say bedtime on the phone cos "Mum's angry" ... and he was right - she really was!!!

Incidentally your comments jammi, make me think maybe my solicitor is not that bad, maybe she is already discarding facts a court is not interested in...maybe. Although it seems such a toss up based on other comments about courts solicitors CAFCASS (whatever the scots equivalent is). If only this was sortable by talking

oh decisions decisions

Jammi: I would always hope you would express your opinion regardless of the flow. I value everyones opinion, and thank everyone for their support and their views (which ever way they are). I may robustly contest those views but I do listen

Comment on solicitors, yes I can see that now, waiting for a 500 pound bill (Estimated) just for keeping her updated.

I am hesitant going to court, because at the end even if they give only 1 night overnight stay to start with, no one wins. I lose, she loses (less access) and DS loses through being forced.

All I ever wanted was an amicable and friendly worked out solution. But with recent threats/bluffs/positions taken I don't know if going to court would actually be better overall - put some lines in the ground and make things more stable. Seriously trying to weigh things up.

I am wary of their views evidence and potential case, after all what ever she manages to say to people first always convince them that I am some sort of demon lord on this planet.

Slightly deviating here. Any conspiracy theorists help here.

This morning after still being angry at DS about his comment yesterday (X carried on moaning this morning to DS that DS doesn't care about her feelings and hurts her and that DP tries so hard and still DS is naughty ....), X says to DS, she will no longer come on Monday, Tuesday or Thursday as he is so naughty. (Those were days she used to come and see DS but not take away)

Only will come on Wed and Fri and take him to (her friends house) or her house. He said he doesn't want to stay overnight, and she said no you don't have to. I presume the weekend visits remain as is.

What would you make of this. How does this help her? If it is genuinely "he will miss me and want to see me and therefore eventually happily stay overnight", thats fine. But could there be an ulterior motivation, some finer plan? Something to trick me?

I mean from last Friday "I will force him overnight" to today and cutting visits to DS.

(Paranoid me also wonders that they are going away on Friday and she is taking him on Friday to hers in the morning .....hope they don't have a second passport!)

cynicalpart of me thinks she has something more exciting planned on those nights when `ds cant go with her

Hmmmn, I'd like to believe jammi's view, but penautbear reminds me that this is similar to the past. It might not me exciting plans, but she is flying out Friday and from past experience will have things to buy and get done this week. Oh well I'll find out when she returns if this is a new approach or just a temporary convenience thing.

I could not sit back and watch my little girl being treated like this. I'm afraid I would be stopping all contact and waiting for them to go to court for a court order. And when/if they did I would explain clearly to the court why contact was stopped, my concerns and how contact was affecting my dd.

And that's quite something for me to say - it took dh 2 years to fight through the courts to get to see his dd.

Jammi's right in that she seems to be consistent in her desire to see him - but the way I see it, her motivation seems to be to "win" a battle with you. It isn't about your son and what's best for him otherwise she wouldn't put him through what she did on Friday . If she really had his best interests at heart, she'd be working with you to get him to stay overnight, not virtually holding him prisoner.

How you doing this week . Hope things are on an even keel I bet shes still being a nutter though .

Here's hoping that the silence means you've been having a belting time of it in London with your family

No not exactly. Yes we went had a good time, come back now, and going to enjoy the week while we can lol. But not being online was down to remote computer failure - typical . As for a previous quiet week, no chance, only highlight was her not turning up everyday. Though she tried a fast one, asking to swap two days around and then expecting swapped day to still be hers too.

She comes up with some great statements, when On Wednesday DS refusing to go with her, I said to her, come on make an effort (e.g. talk to him, play with him, do something rather than sit in the car). To which she replied, "I shouldn't have to make an effort, he is my son". Oh well keep it up (I think).

After an hour of my effort (why do I do that why?) he goes, while she sits in the car. I guess she really is trying to help me after all.

she really is clueless about how to relate to him isn't she?

Perhaps next time don't make any effort to get him to go but tell her that you are not going to make the effort, you will get him ready and tell him that it is visiting his Mum etc but she has to get him to go?????

Does he do pre-chool or nursery or something because it would be easier if she picked him from elsewhere. Have you got a contact centre you could use, or a public place even a macdonalds or something, you wait there with your ds, your X turns up at the table, you say bye see you later and leave your X to deal with it??

I have done many times. She honestly expects him delivered into the car and strapped down. I kid you not. Many times I don't intervene (after all she's told me to butt out). She wont try. She'll just scream and shout and make a scene, then sometimes goes away, sometimes calls DP on phone for parental (or legal) advice, sometimes she stands ordering him (which does not work).

I can see a bust up this coming weekend when she returns. Her DP and her expect that DS will be enthusiastic to see them after a week away. If DS doesn't show that ........

Cross post there. DS says to her not to picking him up from nursery or school. She apparently has said it to him.

I persuaded DS to go with her on one of those weekends by promising she would buy a toy , and the last one by saying go to macdonalds and eat out, and not have to go to her house.

If she can't be bothered then why does she keep wanting to take him .... puzzles me that

I jut think handing over at a neutral place would be better, you have then delivered him and if he doesn't want to get in her car that is then her problem to deal with not yours.

lol, oooo I can't imagine how that would go actually. Screaming tantrums (from both), yikes. scary. At the moment he tries running round the block, or escapes by running round the loop of garden and side of garage. Shopping centre ... I think he would simply follow me out. lol

Did you have any luck with mediation? Seems to me you (plural) are stuck in some sort of power game that is really unfortunate for all of you but especially ds. I do think your ex is being horrid, from your reports, btw, but the urgent question is how to get out of these ever-decreasing circles. And I suspect it won't happen without some outside help.

I just wonder if he finds it extra to hard to leave his home and you to go and be with her.

Although it must be awful for you; I do think you need to tell your son something along the lines of "it is your evening to go and see Mum, I understand that you don't always want to go and you don't always enjoy it. I'm really sorry that you have to go and I am very sorry but it is the law, I am doing everything I can to make it better but I can't change this for you now. You have to go and are going now"

Ultimately whether you go through the courts or not your X is going to carry on wanting to see him the courts will let her have access/overnights and you will have to comply. Yes you need to be very empathetic and supportive, emotionally of your son but you do need to have a level of authority over the situation.

I think you need to reduce the frequency of the contact and stop the phone calls. I would perhaps consider putting in writing to your X something like. "DS never wants to go with you and does not want the evening phone calls. I understand that you want to improve the relationship with your son however from now on I am only prepared to force him to go with you on eg Weds & Fris at 5pm" or however often you think you can bear to force him to go!

The whole situation is awful but by reducing the frequency I think there will be less turmoil. If she doesn't like it what can she do - take you to court, mediation????? Well that is already on the cards isn't it. You can then also tell the cafcass officer that you have to force your son to go.

I'm sorry it is a very harsh thing to do to your lovely ds (one of my dc is very sensitive so I really can imagine) but ultimately he is going to have to see her as stipulated by the courts and getting the handover done and dusted quickly may actually improve things. I wouldn't bribe him I would just try and verbalise for him what he is feeling.

I would also use the words very clearly in writing to your X "force him to go with you" because that is the reality. I would also change your phone number so the evening calls cannot continue, if contact was only once or twice per week then your son (and you) could have a few days off from it all in between.

I have had to force my dc to do things they do not want to, it isn't nice but the situation with your X is not going to change only the way you deal with it can. How does your ds respond when you say to him that you understand he doesn't want to go/he doesn't like it etc?

Things I agree with:

Reduce number of visits.
Stop telephone contact with ex.

Things I do not agree with:

Forcing the lad to visit. Counter-productive, and will make the wee lad lose what trust he has in his life.

cargirl: I am just waiting for mediation, before changing anything. Just in case by some miracle something changes for the better. DS seems to be getting more resistant to going with them/her since the carry on. I don't know if their constant manipulation is the reason, making him out to be a liar on the phone, continous discipline?

If I say he has to go, he goes from "why" to "I don't like it" to "crying" - when he doesn't want to go. Sometimes he still does (not last week though).

Some things have happened to DS over the last week, (in positive developments) which seem a direct and immediate result of me shifting my position slightly.
I've been playing an "honourable" (in my mind) role. DS can go to mum, be with mum and stay with mum, if he is happy to do so. I've remained neutral in it, neither pushing or pulling just being there. Meanwhile she has been playing a manipulation game beyond fairness. A lot of it is already in here. Anyway after the debacle of the recent carry on, I told DS clearly that 1. I wasn't going anywhere (dead or hospital - as she told him). 2. No "law man" was going to take Dad away or him (her comments). 3. He wants to go he can stay overnight, and Dad will pick him up in morning. If he doesn't then he can stay here and dad will let him stay no problem.

The immediate confidence boost and attitude change has been observable. And in hindsight, I've been too gentle in the whole issue since NP arrived. So now until he's settled into school (hist first year at primary) I am not going to budge on overnights. As you said they can go to courts, but I say they can (and maybe win some) but I'll have given DS a head start.

edam: possible it is a power play, but I've certainly never meant it like that. I have always kept my focus on DS. Over the last month? or two, they have been wearing me down and my annoyance, frustration and natural fightback is beginging to show through. Mediation is next week I think - need to check that. I was always happy to have DS stay overnight - all I wanted was a happy DS, and both parents should be the way. But it seems things have changed on her side and left DS more unhappy.

wild, I didn't mean to attribute any blame to you - just an observation that there is a power game going on here (and actually it's easy to blame your ex, from everything you've posted). She isn't going to back down from these games, so you need a way out.

Your most recent posts sounds as if you've managed to shift the balance a little - hope mediation helps to keep it going.

That does sound like you've made progress, I think you should knock those phone calls on the head though because they are intimidating your son in his home which is just not on (actually none of their behaviour is acceptable IMO).

I don't agree with forcing him to go as such but at some point they will get a court order and he will have to go but it seems like by ultra neutral he is actually choosing to go?

cargirl: didn't understand that part "seems like by ultra neutral he is actually choosing to go?"

Do you mean sometimes DS goes with mum? Yes he has easily in the past, and sometimes recently. But most recent he is against it more and more.