Am I being unfair? Discipline by new eXW & DP

[wildfish]

Okay step parents, shoot me down, flame me, barbecue me. Jammi & youcannotbeserious welcome Maybe I should have name changed!

I am expressing my initial and current feelings, rightly or wrongly.

I picked up DS (4) this afternoon, and apparently DS - told me - that new SDad was upset, because as DS was waiting for me he opened the inner door (of a flat type block safe place - second intercom door) and closed it, cos he thought I was there - he says he saw me in the window. He was told not to do that by SD.

Now at night, many many hours later, as he is supposed to say bye at bedtime on the phone, she says you been naughty today, (she says its not my business on what) and then makes him explain to her why he was naughty, he says he thought I was at the door, but she says when she or DP say no, he must listen, and then when he says sorry, she puts DP on phone and he has to agree he was naughty again and apologise to DP, who says you are nice most of the time, but naughty some of the time. She then comes back on and says when anyone, especially her or him say no, he must obey.

DS says to me they will be happy now, and when they say no, they mean no.

Note before new DH SD, there was no such absolute discipline. New DH became DH about 2 weeks ago, and was new DP 3 months now.

Okay so its my DS, and she is an X, and he is new DH (who I haven't met yet), and surely I am biased, and I have different levels of no means no (only for the most dangerous or bad behaviour). But I still feel annoyed that DS was made to say sorry to both over such a trivial thing to me, at bedtime over the phone so many hours later.

Go on set me straight - I'm new to this. No doubt over reacting to this, and it really isn't my business. (but still annoyed)

The new DP is obviously used to be in control of every aspect of his life. At work he has people who jump when he says and he now clearly expects this at home. He already gets it from ex-W (where the hell is her backbone??) and is determined to ensure that he gets it from your ds.

I would be seriously concerned about letting your child into that sort of environment. The man sounds positively dangerous and, if your ds steps out of line, who is to say that he doesn't believe in corporal punishment? Your ds certainly can't expect any support from his mother as she is totally under this man's thumb. And, if he can't expect protection from his mum, who can he expect it from? That would be you and you keep sending him back there.

So this man will not only ruin the relationship between your ds and his mum but could easily damage the relationship between your ds and you if ds comes to believe that you are failing to protect him by sending him into this man's power.

I hope you are keeping detailed notes of everything that happens and everything that is said - print off this thread as a reminder - and show it to your solicitor.

Well despite waking up at 6 and saying look its not bedtime cos its daytime he still got the extra hugs oh my head! I thought the daylight stuff was gone long ago!!!!

susiecb: Yep, looking back it does perhaps seem that way. I started off, about 3 months ago, with a strong willed X, but whom was still on amicable and talking and listening terms (as much as an X can be ). Then it went upside down. Now okay, you may need to push ME the X to the side to establish new relationship, and you may need to be hostile (to prove how bad I was). Thats fine. But the actions towards the little one? Yeah I can't actually understand whether she has capitulated, pretending to or runnnig the show in reverse!

I certainly never intended it to be a wicked step father thread, but sitting in the middle it didn't seem to grow that way. Started simple enough, but each time seems to get worse not clearer.

The damage to DS is the worst part. As a parent you want to protect your DCs. As parents you may over protect them. But its hard to see them being affected like this, double because the divorce already did affect him, and this year he was "recovering" back to where he should be (relative to other children). But now I see all the same symptoms again - surfacing again. That is very frustrating and upsetting.

The part about a 4 year old being sensitive to their needs, well was literally said yesterday. "He knows what is right, what is wrong and what hurts". "He needs to learn not to hurt his mummy's and DP[by name] feelings". That is something I can't quite get. I said 2x times he is 4. and the second time was told to butt out. I guess its the advice you get from others. She takes the position, kids obey, parents decide. And she has always said children shouldn't take over, that her rights are just as important [see it doesn't sound that bad - i mean i disagree - but in isolation its a possible position - one I personally disagree though, after all we chose to bring a child into the world], but I think she or new DP has extrapolated it to the next level!
Thing is though, she/they seem incapable of adjusting their position to take into account what is happening to DS.

I hope I have a good solicitor too lol. She seems very reasonable, but have to mediate first.
I do have stronger and stronger feelings about this. But I think unless they do something very very bad, - emotional hurting or plain stupidity doesn't count as enough in the courts, so courts are a last resort - but if I have to .....

Freckle: You have hit the nail on the head - my other fear. She may want to destroy her relationship, but I can't let DS feel isolated. Hard enough for an adult to feel like that, for a sensitive 4 year old? Given that her new DP does seem to have a short temper - I to worry about the punishment side of it. If DS does though ever end up refusing to go there, I will not push him at all.

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I'm really glad to read the post of alittleone2. Its good to know that as the parent with care at the moment, you do get the deciding vote on things such as school, and well, everthing really. That is brilliant! SO pleased to know the law is on your side, its a relief.

Think perhaps you need to start getting a bit stricter about it all You can bet your life, if it were the other way round, and she had the care, you'd be firmly put in your place, and well and truly pushed out of things with them and their life.

So make sure you write everything down, carefully.

Take care, and thanks for sharing all of this, it can't be easy. ill keep thinking of you both. Keep strong and you will get to the point one day, I hope soon, that you can put all this behind you,

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Hi Guys any comment on the following? He has real cousins in London. X has just forbade me from taking him to see them (we are in Scotland), unless she gets compensation in time for no overnight stays. She says he has step cousins now - eh?

Anyway does she have the right to block me? I will ask my lawyer tomorrow just seeking some idea of where I stand.

These guys are bullies that there is no doubt. Wondering whether to wait for mediation or go via lawyer now.

As there is as yet no court order in place and you are the primary carer, then there is nothing to stop you taking your child anywhere within the UK. However, it would perhaps be politic to offer alternative overnight stays, but, if she refuses to agree to dates, then just go.

I'm not sure what the step-cousins have to do with this. Is she suggesting that, as her new partner has nieces and nephews, these now outweigh in importance any cousins he may have on your side of the family??

Prior to any court proceedings, it is always sensible to show yourself to be reasonable and accommodating - and this should, as far as practicable, continue after any order is granted. However, if you have planned a visit to London, she has no power to veto it.

They sound totally toxic. Your poor son.

If you are cancelling a contact with them, then yes, offer to swap it for an alternative date.

Other than that you can do whatever you like with him in "your" time. She can't forbid you to do anything!

Hey just wanted to say to all you lot, thanks for the advice, comments and support.

Hate to admit this but all this stuff really really really stresses me out - its good to have a sounding board, and advice and support.

lol still stressed out though - but it does help.

Best of luck for tomorrow . Dont forget to hug your DS from me . KEEP STRONG

yep good luck, hugs from all of ds's cyber mummies! lol.

oh and should you feel the urge, we're a lovely bunch on the lone parents section - even one or 2 dads as well

Hope your lawyer has been helpful. I'm just dashing in and out of MN, I wonder if your X has fed her new hubbie a load of trollop about the situation, what's happened etc and therefore has been manipulated into demanding stuff your X says she wants. He is probably a bullying twat too but it just occured to me that everything he knows of the situation is from your X and it could be a comoplete pack of lies.........

Chronicles of wildfish continue:

Sorry cargirl, I emailed, but late, so have to wait for a response.

Got another call from d*head. I know I should perhaps not - but its good to pick up ammunition for mediation and maybe more.

I got pulled up for the following:

We both had Monday and Tuesday off: So As I said they took him to a safari park on Monday. On Tuesday it was a gorgeous day, so I says where do you wanna go. DS says fish place. (Seaworld) so off we go. Well what a disappointment over in 40 minutes. So I says to DS do you want to go to the zoo (15minutes from there) (which he already was flipping between the two). So we spend the afternoon and come back.

Well by me doing that, I undermined them, I should have said ... "no you went to the safari park yesterday, so no animals today" ..... WHY?

Also on the London blocking, as it is supposed to be punishment for me (another story) I shouldn't shift the blame from me to his mum, by saying Mum says no. Thats right he doesn't get to go, because I am being punished.

Oh well scribble scribble. I've decided I am dealing with a pair of lunatics.

Yeah I already know that they have started to tell DS "don't tell dad". I personally find that very sinister. I am drumming in that only naughty people tell you dont tell dad.
I do not approve of a 3rd party telling my son to keep secrets from dad at this age.

CarGirl: What you said about maybe her manipulating him. I think back to our marriage. She always wanted me to fight (not physical) anyone she was upset with or annoyed with. Once she was so pleased I was fighting with my sis, she told someone she caused it. I in general though never did do that, cos there are other ways to handle that. My refusal was one of the reasons for the breakdown. However seems she has found the proxy warrior after all. He might be aggressive in nature, but being used as a tool by her right now.

I don't wish to be alarmist but I think you should get as much as possible of everything in writing and collect evidence of anything you don't like. When a man makes his new partner capitulate to his opinions like this, there is a moderately strong possiblity that he is not just a reactionary fuckwit, but an abuser. Keep a careful eye on how your DS reacts to this man and if he starts to become withdrawn and scared and relucant to go to his mother's house, air your concerns.

hope it went ok today . Hugs to ds from mumsnet and you can have a small hug for keeping strong lol

Have now read whole thread: I think you have
possible grounds for applying for supervised access only (ie your X and her awful partner can only see DS in a contact centre). If you have a lot of evidence of mental cruelty (which it sounds like you do) you can lay it on thick that you are genuinley afraid of this horrible man assaulting your child (no i am not implying or suggesting you imply he's a paedophile, more that he does sound like someone who may hit DS as a form of discipline).

Oh wildfish. It just gets better and better hey?

It is absolutely abhorrent to ask a 4 year old, actually a child of any age, to not tell either of their parents something! It is just not on, to say to a child, "don't tell daddy/mummy x,y,or z " It is simply not fair on the child to be expected to collude in things, to become an innocent pawn in the game.

You must write this down, you must keep notes on this. Its really worrying actually. it breeds an atmosphere of dishonesty, surely one of the main principles we instill in our children is honesty, from a really early age?

This man is an absolute fuckwit. She has not even known him for very long, how the hell does she actually know what kind of man he is? Its really disturbing tbh. She is behaving like a utter arse, and clearly being controlled by him. Since when did being involved with someone for 3 months or so, suddenly give you the right to parent their child, and to dictate to the childs actual father? This is SO wrong, its just... erm.. flabbergasting really. I'm lost for words.

Please please ensure you get the best advice possible, and do all you can to protect that dear little boy from those people. Do all you can, please? I'm sure you are already. I just feel for you both really. It seems all so sad

I agree that a parent shouldn't be actively asking a child not to tell the other parent something, especially at 4YO.

I am sure there are things that my DSDs don't tell their mum and I am sure there are thing we don't find out about, but the kids are older now and it's thier decision (mind you, a couple of times DSD1 has tried to play us off against mum and thankfully been caught out!!! that'll teach her!!)

This guy does sound like a first class tosser, but I don't think he's an abuser... I'd say he's someone who doesn't know about kids, whose been given half the story, and who thinks that YOU can be controlled through your son. YOur Ex does sound as if she's had something of an about change being with him and she may well be agreeing with everything he says / making out that every problem that exists is yours and yours alone.

I do think you should consider going for supervised access...

As for the safari / zoo - what planet are the ON??? HE's 4YO FFS!!!! If he enjoys animals, he could go to the zoo every day fo ra month and not get bored!!! When my DSDs were about that age, when they found a video they liked, they'd watch it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... Might drive an adult crazy, but kids love that repetition, IMHO.

I can't type what I think, as I don't think I could gather enough coherence for it. Even if I did I would be banned I suspect.

I feel for your plight wildfish, I just hope this works out in the end

But, MM - I think your adnice might be useful for Wildfish... You have been firm with your ex (especially when it comes to new partners) and I think Wildfish should be really firm when it comes to this numpty barging in and trying to run the show....

Parenting should be between the parents..... It can't be passed over to someone else.....

It shouldn't matter (IMHO) whether wildfish's ex wants to deal with it - she HAS to!

I'm not sure I'm all that useful, I'm just hot-headed and very determined when it comes to my children. I'm irrational and some would say insane. I'm not a good role model

oh dear wf - one point thou how very fucking rude of them (please excuse that word but i'm getting more annoyed on your behalf!) but anyhow how very rude of you to try and dictate to you what you can and can't do on your days with DS - how very bloody dare they. you and DS were doing just fine and dandy before this idiot came onto the scene - all be it strained with your x but still.

anyhow I also agree that you shouldn't teach a child that.

listen to madmaz, see if you can push for restricted access - your DS needs protecting in this, and tbh if this was me i'd stop all contact with them (am not normally one to suggest such drastic measures) but stop all contact and go thru your solicitors. I realise your DS needs to have contact with his mum but for the minute things are seemingly getting a touch out of hand.

sorry of them - not of you

Please don't listen to them wildfish. I can understand why you would want to keep the communication channels open and not start to escalate things. But you really mustn't listen to anything they are saying.

You can do whatever you like when your ds is with you - they cannot dictate where you go and who you see. Are you really not going to London because they have said so? What on earth do they think they can do if you go ahead?

And I find it totally bizarre for one adult to be saying to another that he thinks he can "punish" you. Odd, odd, odd.

How does it affect you after the phone calls?