Page 4 | SS being inappropriate with DD *trigger warning**

Tryingoworkitout79 · 2023-06-27T08:07:27+00:00

I don't know what to think. My youngest DD, 5, was behaving oddly last night, trying to look in my pants, which is strange for her as she's quite uninhibited and comfortable with her body and mine (and used to them). Talking to her, it seems that SS, nearly 8, asked to see her 'privates/bits' over the weekend, she said no, she didn't want to and he moved her shorts to one side so he could see, saying that he wanted to. This apparently happened in the kitchen when I'd gone upstairs to get something. WTH! DP rang his mum (as he's back with her now) and gently asked if she could ask him about it (arguably we should have waited till next week when he's with us, but though it was a good idea to let her know) and she's hit the roof telling us we're sexualising young innocent children!! Yes, I'm utterly furious and feel a whole wide range of strong emotions that SS did that to DD when she said no. But I'm not for a second suggesting that at their age it's sexual. What the hell kind of message does that send DD, at this young age, that saying 'no' to someone seeing or touching your body carries no goddamn weight?!!! Jesus.

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WonderingWanda · 27/06/2023 12:38

The Mum's reaction is a bit odd for me. If someone told me that about my child I would be apologetic and let them know I would speak with them immediately so they knew it wasn't appropriate. It's not sexualising their behaviour to take them to one side and make it really clear that their behaviour was wrong, at 8 years old he should know that. It sounds like there are other issues with his behaviour and she is massively in denial.

How concerned is his Dad about him in general, could he be neurodiverse in some way? Could he be accessing inappropriate content or being abused himself?

veryfluffyfluff · 27/06/2023 12:38

aSofaNearYou · 27/06/2023 10:37

In that case I don't think it's off the table to consider DP having him elsewhere or, if your DD sees her dad, aligning weekends so they aren't at the same time.

I completely agree with this. Your DD is the priority here.

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:39

mindutopia · 27/06/2023 12:29

I think you need to get some professional guidance on this before you go any further - speak to the NSPCC and the school. I say this as someone with a good bit of personal experience in this area, but what you are describing does not necessarily in and of itself mean this is abusive or sexual. It's very normal for kids that age to be curious about each others bodies and to talk about them and want to see them. What isn't okay is the fact that your dd said no and he didn't respect that.

That doesn't necessarily make it 'sexual abuse' as lots of siblings do annoying and mean things to each other when the other says to stop, but they don't. These things by themselves are 'normal' but it's how they have played out together here that's problematic. So this could be an entirely normal sibling interaction but feels really wrong to us as adults because we're seeing in through the lens of what we know about abuse. But it could also be a sign that your SS has experienced someone else asking him to do the same and thinking it's normal to do it anyway even if someone says no (again, without realising the inappropriate context that we all can obviously see).

I think you need to tread really carefully here and get professional advice. This could be a totally innocent non-event that simply needs a parent to talk through with him about respecting when other people say no, especially when it comes to do with anything about their bodies. But it could also be a red flag that he needs some support and you don't want to go in all guns blazing because it could cause him to shut down and be unable to talk about anything going on that he needs to talk to an adult about.

You haven’t mentioned how on earth op can trust this situation won’t happen again? I would say it’s almost irrelevant WHY he did this (the parents/school/ social services should be looking into that) that is not ops responsibility.

The point is this has clearly really impacted the victim. A child of 5 whom even with speech issues was impacted enough to tell her mother about this, and the fact it took place at home and be lives there EOW is a huge problem. A safe guarding issue as a minimum. The psychological consequences could be severe for dd if the living arrangements remained the same.

veryfluffyfluff · 27/06/2023 12:40

Cailin66 · 27/06/2023 12:19

People are way overreacting to what has been described. It sounds like childhood curiosity to me. It’s ridiculous to suggest they must never see each other again. He needs to be given a stern talking to. He’s only 8. So he’s a child too. His mother has also overreacted.

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He shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. And when she said No he ABSOLUTELY had no excuse. It needs stopping- not minimising.

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:42

I think considering how young he is and that no one really appears to have sat down and had a decent discussion with him , banning him from the house altogether is a touch extreme

you say you don’t believe it was sexual but are ostracising and criminalising him? It would be different if he was older ,

I totally agree that your DD needs to be safe absolutely, and not leaving them unsupervised Ian’s having his dad having a very clear discussion is understandable and important, at his Age I think a second chance is important,

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:43

And not Ian,

im summary I think he actually needs to be sat down first

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:47

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:42

I think considering how young he is and that no one really appears to have sat down and had a decent discussion with him , banning him from the house altogether is a touch extreme

you say you don’t believe it was sexual but are ostracising and criminalising him? It would be different if he was older ,

I totally agree that your DD needs to be safe absolutely, and not leaving them unsupervised Ian’s having his dad having a very clear discussion is understandable and important, at his Age I think a second chance is important,

Can you talk me through nighttime arrangements? Does op just put her child to sleep and hope for the best or sleep on the floor? How do you propose 247 surveillance works in a family home?

Or should op just forget all about it and just simply pray he won’t do it again perhaps? After all it’s only her daughters mental and physical well being at stake here - just ‘kids play’ and no harm right?

ItsNotWhatItsNot · 27/06/2023 12:47

@Notbeinfunnehbut absolutely terrible post. A ‘second chance’? Horrific.

summerpug · 27/06/2023 12:47

So your partner is not your dd dad ??
so I’d be ending the relationship asap.
no need to ever see him again.
your dp ,will of course be saying he will take ss somewhere else ,blah blah blah ,untill things calm down ,then you will be classed as being difficult when in a few months time u still don’t want them together.
that’s what I’d do anyway .
your dp ,should of been supervising his son at your house ,he wasn’t .
ss is 8 ,definitely definitely definitely old enough to know that is wrong .
end the relationship and u never have to see the child again.
who knows if this is the first time he has done anything,or the 3 rd or 6th time ..you just don’t know ..

veryfluffyfluff · 27/06/2023 12:47

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:42

I think considering how young he is and that no one really appears to have sat down and had a decent discussion with him , banning him from the house altogether is a touch extreme

you say you don’t believe it was sexual but are ostracising and criminalising him? It would be different if he was older ,

I totally agree that your DD needs to be safe absolutely, and not leaving them unsupervised Ian’s having his dad having a very clear discussion is understandable and important, at his Age I think a second chance is important,

He isn't banned he just isn't allowed in the same room as DD alone and possibly the house. And he can be told why.

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:48

ItsNotWhatItsNot · 27/06/2023 12:47

@Notbeinfunnehbut absolutely terrible post. A ‘second chance’? Horrific.

A second chance to abuse ops dd again, it is horrific.

Mumof4plusbonus · 27/06/2023 12:49

mindutopia · 27/06/2023 12:29

I think you need to get some professional guidance on this before you go any further - speak to the NSPCC and the school. I say this as someone with a good bit of personal experience in this area, but what you are describing does not necessarily in and of itself mean this is abusive or sexual. It's very normal for kids that age to be curious about each others bodies and to talk about them and want to see them. What isn't okay is the fact that your dd said no and he didn't respect that.

That doesn't necessarily make it 'sexual abuse' as lots of siblings do annoying and mean things to each other when the other says to stop, but they don't. These things by themselves are 'normal' but it's how they have played out together here that's problematic. So this could be an entirely normal sibling interaction but feels really wrong to us as adults because we're seeing in through the lens of what we know about abuse. But it could also be a sign that your SS has experienced someone else asking him to do the same and thinking it's normal to do it anyway even if someone says no (again, without realising the inappropriate context that we all can obviously see).

I think you need to tread really carefully here and get professional advice. This could be a totally innocent non-event that simply needs a parent to talk through with him about respecting when other people say no, especially when it comes to do with anything about their bodies. But it could also be a red flag that he needs some support and you don't want to go in all guns blazing because it could cause him to shut down and be unable to talk about anything going on that he needs to talk to an adult about.

I think this is the view that matches mine. This young boy is only little too, he also needs protected, if only in the way that someone needs to teach him to respect others boundaries. Or to find out if he has been subjected to anything. His mother is wrong in her reaction, and while I wouldn’t want him labelled at 8yrs old sweeping it under the carpet won’t help him. I understand this is not the op’s job but it is her partner’s.
I would make sure the children aren’t left alone and that dd feels safe when he’s around, or see them separately if that’s easier. Just make sure dd doesn’t feel she has caused any bad issues such as her step brother not coming around.

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:50

Mumof4plusbonus · 27/06/2023 12:49

I think this is the view that matches mine. This young boy is only little too, he also needs protected, if only in the way that someone needs to teach him to respect others boundaries. Or to find out if he has been subjected to anything. His mother is wrong in her reaction, and while I wouldn’t want him labelled at 8yrs old sweeping it under the carpet won’t help him. I understand this is not the op’s job but it is her partner’s.
I would make sure the children aren’t left alone and that dd feels safe when he’s around, or see them separately if that’s easier. Just make sure dd doesn’t feel she has caused any bad issues such as her step brother not coming around.

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How are you going to ‘make dd feel safe’ exactly?

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:51

Tryingoworkitout79 · 27/06/2023 11:49

Thank you again. Yes, DD is my priority and it's a step-sibling relationship.

SS can still see his Dad as much as before.

But he can’t as he’s banned from the house forever

ImAOneWayMotorway · 27/06/2023 12:51

To say this isn't anything sexual I think is a bit naive, he's done this when no one else is around and knows it isn't right. Having been the victim of something similar with a boy a similar age when i was around 6, I'd be checking that SS isn't himself being abused by anyone, I'm pretty sure the person who did this to me was possibly being abused himself (looking at it through adult eyes). Back in the 80s when this happened to me there was no education on "pants rules" if your SS has already been educated on this he knows its wrong, in fact even without that at 8 a child will know this behaviour is wrong. You need to protect your child, I'd be very concerned about what this could have led to had your daughter not had the voice to say what had happened. Don't just ignore this because it makes things awkward, this is how this behaviour starts. Stop it now.

Ted27 · 27/06/2023 12:52

@Tryingoworkitout79

Incredibly difficult situation but you are of course right to prioritise your daughters safety.
You may already have done this but its really important that she knows the correct names for body parts

If God forbid she should ever experience something similar again, it's much clearer if she can explain exactly what happened. 'touching my privates' can cover a multitude of actions

GreenIvyLeaves · 27/06/2023 12:53

They are 7 and 5, I think you are all over reacting .

Have calm talks with them, and use that NSPCC info, if it seems appropriate.

All children are inquisitive.

Dont demonise the child, because it does sound like you’re doing this.

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:53

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:48

A second chance to abuse ops dd again, it is horrific.

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It’s quite obviously not what I meant

it obviously needs to be addressed head on and things like NSPCC are great resources especially if his mother is not onboard but

he is being treat like a criminal before his dad has had a chance to speak to him that seems unfair

Cantstaystuckforever · 27/06/2023 12:54

Agree there's no way he should be alone with her (or other younger kids) at this point, and OP is absolutely reasonable not to have him in the house, or at all, she needs to prioritise her DD.

I also think that it's important not to leave this boy damaged or with the message he's a monster, given the chances are (a) he's been exposed to something similarly or more inappropriate and needs support or (b) he is immature as OP said, and was inappropriate but in the same way that an older step sibling might snatch a younger kid's food or toy - wrong but not making them a deviant.

OP this support isn't your job, he's not your child. But it would be a kindness to him, and to other kids he comes across in future if you keep in mind when you talk to his parents that an immature 8 year old is also very young and demonising him the way some PPs here want to do won't get him help either.

Notbeinfunnehbut · 27/06/2023 12:56

Well articulated @Cantstaystuckforever

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:58

I often find the posts that are so dismissive are the ones with precious ‘little’ boys so desperately keen to make excuses.
This is precisely why we end up with men that rape, they never learn from their parents thar no means absolutely no and you can not force others, ever.

Just reading some of these posts it’s very easy to see how some boys and men grow up into the entitled sexual predators, peadophiles and rapists.

Even now this tiny girl’s needs come second to reassuring and smoothing over things for the boy, even now we can see the minimising of HER experience, the impact on her body and psychological damage in favour of keeping the status quo.

It’s so distressing to read.

Naunet · 27/06/2023 12:58

Zodfa · 27/06/2023 11:49

I think both you and his mother are approaching this wrong. At this age he probably isn't irredeemably evil. On the other hand he has made a serious mistake. He doesn't (yet) need to be separated from your daughter forever, but he does need a very stern telling off - it needs to be very clear that he should not be doing this sort of thing again.

So what, her daughter should just be exposed to the potential of a repeat of this behaviour? She was sexually assaulted by him, whether it was sexual from his side or not. Do you have any idea what childhood sexual abuse does to children? Any clue at all?

Mumof4plusbonus · 27/06/2023 13:02

GCalltheway · 27/06/2023 12:50

How are you going to ‘make dd feel safe’ exactly?

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Op knows her daughter best, but by talking with her, reassuring her, teaching her and not leaving her alone. Dd did amazing by coming to her mum. This needs to be acknowledged and encouraged. I don’t think sending ss away and never to be spoke of again is necessarily the best way to help even dd, definitely not ss. If dd is really uncomfortable around dss then yes she shouldn’t be made to be around him, but these are really young children and you need to be careful how the message isn’t just given but received.
Ss is 8 and by op’s admission a young 8. Being curious about the opposite gender is totally normal. Forcing a 5yr old is not! However that doesn’t mean he’s setting up to abuse younger children. He needs help. His parents need to reach out to get this for him. If the mum has her head in the sand then the dad needs to do so. He’s a little boy.

Beautiful3 · 27/06/2023 13:03

It always starts off as just looking, then games then it escalates. He knew it was wrong because he waited for you to go upstairs, so it wasn't innocent at all. My brother was 15 when he did the same to me, when I was 5, it got worse each time. Listen to your gut feeling, and keep him away from your daughter. You are not making a mountain out of a mole hill, you are protecting her. Ignore those who disagree with you, they're thinking it would never happen. But it does happen.

Daisiesanddahlias · 27/06/2023 13:05

I have a 5 year old little girl, and I'd be pissed off with this. Whatever the reasons behind his behavior, your little girl is more important than what's going on in your ss's mind, and I would not have him alone with your daughter even for a second. Not. One. Second. Her privacy has already been violated , poor little girl. I'd be raging. If you can't ensure that she'll be with an adult at every second and every minute when he's around, you shouldnt be allowing him home. I'd be raging that his mother is trying to minimise this as well, probably for an easier life. It's not her daughter that's been violated, what the f** does she care.