Changing the locks tomorrow so SD can’t do this anymore

[Exhaustedandangry]

SD is 20 and has lived with us since age 15. Terrible teen issues and DP ex couldn’t cope anymore.
Nothing much has changed still issues. SD works full time and goes out nearly every night coming home at 2/3/4 am and waking us all up. We have 2 younger dc and it’s affecting them severely.

She pays us rent but doesn’t clean up after herself at all and I feel like I’m running a hotel service

I’ve told DP locks are getting changed tomorrow and her stuff packed up. Given so many chances for her to change. She can get a room somewhere in a shared house I’ve had enough . I can’t have my children woken nearly every night it’s affecting their schooling as they are exhausted (they are 7 and 5)

No its no different.

As long as over 18 the process is the same. Notice must be given. You cannot just change the locks without warning.

It will not always require a court order, often the notice is sufficient. But if they dig their heels in or there are mitigating circumstances (disabilities etc) then it has to go to court.

@Willyoujustbequiet well op has given notice and said if DSC didn't stick to the agreement then they will change the locks and she needs to go stay at her band. Which she's repeatedly said on this thread.
Also in terms of notice it has to be considered "reasonable" which would certainly be the case in OPs case as they have repeatedly spoken to her about this

There isn't any disabilities and given the behaviour she talks about it's unlikely (but not impossible).

So no court order needed.

If my Dc acted like this as a adult. They certainly wouldn't have been given as much notice as OP has. I'm with her DH here change the locks. As op has been the one convincing DH to give more chances...

Nans**

Still not a reasonable comparison.

It’s the OP’s family home and the SD is a child of that family. Parents can kick their adult offspring out. Even if they’ve been contributing something to the household.

Not without giving notice. Not legally anyway.

I was talking more broadly. Not this specific instance. Feel free to look it up.

I dont blame you - My own dd was like this at 19 so I asked her to get her own place.

I dont come on MN often but I never get surprised at the ridiculousness of threads.

Court order?? FFS lol

A reasonable period for a student lodger, who shares your kitchen and bathroom, is about a week, if I recall correctly. In the case of abuse or highly antisocial behaviour, it amounts to pack your bags now and be gone by lunchtime.

She isn't a tenant, she isn't even a lodger.

@Willyoujustbequiet

I was talking more broadly. Not this specific instance. Feel free to look it up.

Again I'm gonna be pedantic but in several of the comments below you mention she (OPs DSD) pays rent.

Nothing broad about what you were posting. It's ok to say you were wrong. I have said it many times here (because I have been)

But please don't backpedal because it's literally not something I needed to look up. Just the ability to read.

I'm afraid it is you who are incorrect.

In simple terms a court order will always be needed to evict someone (legally) should they refuse to vacate at the end of the notice period.

You can't possibly preempt whether a judge would agree there has been an adequate notice period or indeed if they consider notice was given at all. Neither of us know the minutiae of the situation so you simply can't speculate to fit your narrative and declare yourself right. The law is what it is and I have only stated facts.

Hope that clears it up for you

@Willyoujustbequiet
The SD has no leg to stand on. She has no ownership rights, no contract, no sole occupancy, will not be paying anything more than keep if that - and her behaviour is grossly antisocial. If her DF chooses to move her stuff to her Nan's and change the locks, what options does she have?

Do you think that the police or social services will intervene on her behalf? Will she get legal aid for a court order to force her way back into the home?

@Willyoujustbequiet I thought you were talking in general terms not the op 🙄.

Saying the words repeatedly doesn't make it right and legally speaking any child (DSD) is not a legal tenant - they are classed as excluded occupiers which do not need a court order.

Her behaviour is antisocial and detrimental to the young children of the house. There isn't a judge in this world that will say to a 20 year old nope you have every right to keep young children up at night because you have been on a bender and your parents can't kick you out.

Even a stepchild "adult" in this op

I'm also sure since mum kicked her out, because of this behaviour maybe the 20 should take her mum to court for kicking her out unlawfully ? By your own words... no shocker ...

should b

You seem to have a weird bee in your bonnet about this.

I am allowed to talk in general terms and refer back to the op. Its not mutually exclusive.

Seeing as you stated previously you don't need to look it up you just need the ability to read why are you telling me about excluded occupiers when if you had actually read my posts properly you'll see I said that pages ago.

Possession orders were part of my job as a lawyer in a large in-house legal dept in the public sector (feel free to check that too). I've merely stated facts. People are able to check this themselves.

Its clearly a touchy subject for you so I won't look to engage further. Enjoy the rest of your day.

You can't legally speaking just change locks and kick people out without notice. You leave yourself vulnerable to possible proceedings against you and costs incurred.

It would be for a judge to determine the merits of the case should it get that far.

I'm not for one moment saying it doesn't happen, or indeed that it doesn't work. I'm simply saying its not legal and any professional in this area would say the same.

This is not a squatters rights situation. This is an abusive family member, making the lives of the rest of the family untenable. Squatters rights exist to prevent murder being done!

What do you suggest that SD does here? Demand payment in lieu of, say, one week's written notice?

@Willyoujustbequiet I have a weird bee in my bonnet for people who contradict themselves and give incorrect information state it as fact on a op which is asking for advice on their current situation. It's nuanced as everything on this board.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to grasp.

Its clearly a touchy subject for you so I won't look to engage further. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Also this made me smile. I have no idea why this would be a touchy subject for me 😵‍💫 what a odd thing to say.

The last time you were fact checked, you actually turned out to be completely incorrect but yet here we are. So you will excuse me for not bothering 😂

I didn't intend to respond to you again but I won't let your repeated falsehoods stand. The only person who has stated incorrect information is yourself. I simply stated the law which as a solicitor with years of experience I thought may help some readers.

If you have difficulty with that due to your own history then I'm afraid its your problem as its not all about you. It does not alter the law. I'm quite sure you'll reply again as you appear fixated/on the defensive but rant away. I have no desire to help you derail this further.

If you are at the point of getting a court order to evict a family member from the family home, or of that family member seeking legal redress because you told them they must leave, then your relationship is utterly fucked. Probably irrevocably.

An adult child who is behaving so poorly she’s been told to leave, and (luckily) Nan is willing to put her up, who starts banging on about their legal rights and refusing to leave until you get a court order and instruct bailiffs, is an unbelievable arsehole, frankly. Even more so when there are actually children - their siblings - who are being kept awake by their inconsiderate behaviour.

You have nothing to lose here.

Give her one last warning. Explain exactly the behaviour you want to see. Tell her if she falls foul of even one expectation, she's gone.

Advise her that she should start looking for alternative accommodation asap because not having anywhere else to go will not be taken into account and there will be no compromise; your expectations are written in stone.

Follow through.

@Willyoujustbequiet

You have tied yourself up in contradictions and tried to get make "personal" comments knowing nothing about me, which is quite bizarre tbh.

I simply stated what you put is incorrect. And pointed to online resources that say the exact same thing me and a few other posters have said. But you do you. People can Google and see for themselves.

And yes let's stop derailing then thread 💐

Op for the love of god change the locks. You have put enough bullshit, and frankly have been kind enough in the face of completely unacceptable and unsocial behaviour.

I'm aware yes, but it doesn't alter the fact that you cannot legally just change the locks and kick someone out without notice.

As I said it happens of course but depending on the individual involved and the level of conflict, it is always best to be able to evidence that you have adhered to the law and provided notice (written is preferable).

If someone is thrown out there can be counter accusations of violence or criminal damage (to their belongings) and matters can quickly escalate. Courts will always look to who has acted reasonably.

@Willyoujustbequiet you can't honestly mean that a house owner cannot change the locks to their own home that's their main residence and cannot decide who they share it with and can be forced to share it against their will by a court?!

I think @Willyoujustbequiet is mixing it up with marital homes and lock changing, where being married gives you legal right of abode. Anyway, I 'd be fascinated to see details of actual court proceedings, in the case of an adult child evicted from the parental home.