DSS when DD is having her nappy changed

[Namechangeof2021]

I've put this here rather than on any of the main boards as I don't want an onslaught of people saying I'm horrible or that I'm implying he has nefarious intentions. I'm really not so I hope it doesn't come across that way. It isn't an attack on him, just me looking out for my DD (and maybe some unintentional projection on my part as a CSA survivor) again, I'm not saying he's planning to do anything.

I have a 3 year old DD who isn't yet toilet trained. I have noticed that DSS who is about to start secondary school always makes a point of coming over and looking when I'm changing her. He isn't discrete about it so I don't think he's trying to hide the fact.

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings, and it may well be, but it makes me uncomfortable.

The bathroom is too small and awkward to change her in so It's always the living room (when the older kids aren't in there - but they happen to come in to) or the bedroom, again which they come in to. Dad seems to forget I've raised these things and will happily change her in the same room that they are already in. He'll just walk right up and stand over her.

Would I be unreasonable to have a talk with him myself and ask that he respects DD's privacy when she needs to be changed?

I wouldn't be happy with that at all. Change her somewhere private with the door shut. If he starts to come in I'd sharply say "I'm changing DD, please can you give her some privacy, we'll be out shortly" (or similar). I certainly wouldn't change her in the living room in front of him - you're enabling him and not teaching him to respect privacy.

Why not draw up some simple house rules for everyone and have family meeting. Like with bathroom you knock before you enter, everyone's entitled to their privacy etc.

Just ask dss to leave the room while changing her

He is 11 and showing concerning signs. A pubescent boy going out of his way to be staring at a small child's vulva is not sibling curiosity. Maybe if he was 6! J wouldn't tiptoe about it. I'd ask 'Why are you staring?'. I'd explain its inappropriate. I'd also contact his teacher and explain your concerns, ask if they can have a general talk to the class, just to ensure he is getting that message elsewhere

Hi OP - what do you do about potty training when Dss is there? do you have to leave it until he goes to his mum's?

Just take her to another room to be changed. It maybe just curiosity, I wouldn’t make a big deal about it, if he was a girl you probably wouldn’t bat an eye lid and would probably assume they just wanted to help. If you feel it’s creepy just take dd to another room.

My DSS’s often helped with changing of DD’s, they haven’t turned out to be child molesters, one is now a wonderful dad to his 2 dc.

When she's potty training she'll be running around bottomless, and it shouldn't be a big deal or anything to worry about!
Does your child have any additional needs? Or is being in nappies only sign? Will they be able to communicate anything like him touching her? NSPCC have a PANTS video, I've not watched it but it is meant to be child friendly way of how they should tell them. If her understanding is that of a NT 3 year old, wsll worth watching.
You can't be too careful.

OP, surely you can put a lock for your daughter's privacy and pay for it yourself if need be. Your landlord doesn't get to choose your privacy settings in your own home.
You've mentioned he's reluctant as he doesn't want to pay for it, so why not pay for it yourself.

@Kanaloa

That's clearly not the case and this is the op making this into a nefarious inference of a young child's very natural behaviour.

He’s almost a teenager. Do you have kids that age out of curiosity? It’s not normal or acceptable for a boy or 10/11/12 to want to follow his baby sister and watch her get changed. The parents would be doing him (and the baby) a disservice by allowing it to continue.

And by the way, just because someone can’t ask for/signal that they want privacy doesn’t mean they don’t deserve respect and dignity. My son was pretty much non verbal (or close to, basically nobody understood him) until about 4. I still didn’t just whip his pants off in front of everyone and let his siblings gawk at his naked body because he didn’t know and it’s just ‘normal childhood behaviour.’

He's not nearly a teenager unless you think that a 7yo is practically a toddler?

In most families, changing a child's nappy is not some sort of act that means any onlookers are deviant in intent.
Op quite obviously is up tight. I imagine that she'd have issues for example if he saw her take her top on/off when getting changed. This is an op created issue.
The father sees no issue. The toddler has no issue. Only her.
She's being divisive and risks this coming down to her treatment of a biological child and nonbiological child.
If the child had been inappropriate, then yes of course mediate risks. But they live in a very small flat and she's in effect barging him out of the way constantly saying its a no go.
Get the child potty trained! and stop trwating her like a baby in nappies on changing mats. This would solve the issues rather than op creating an issue.

@TrendingNowt

He is 11 and showing concerning signs. A pubescent boy going out of his way to be staring at a small child's vulva is not sibling curiosity. Maybe if he was 6! J wouldn't tiptoe about it. I'd ask 'Why are you staring?'. I'd explain its inappropriate. I'd also contact his teacher and explain your concerns, ask if they can have a general talk to the class, just to ensure he is getting that message elsewhere

You don't think that couldn't be natural curiosity? Different body parts to his own?

How sad.

I can't help but feel that you've walked into this one OP.

You're living in a small flat and changing your 3 year old DD in the living room with others present? I'm my opinion you've not shown her privacy yet expect it from your DSS - there is blurred lines right there.

For all we know your DSS is staring because its not something they he sees regularly/at his mums. It is human nature to stare/look at something that is unusual or doesn't feel right.

I think you need to put in real boundaries around personal space and privacy within your own home and then make judgement on whether his behaviour is inappropriate. You shouldn't need to put a lock on your bedroom door - you just tell the kids it is NOT their space.

@ChoiceMummy .. sorry what? Your logic is so skewed here I’d be much more concerned about your own children than OP’s if you think a 3 year old is able to make a sole decision in that situation.

She doesn’t understand it’s inappropriate at 3 years old.. that why generally good parents take the initiative to keep them safe themselves exactly as OP is trying to do.

You sound very ignorant.

Lots of good advice here already, just wanted to add a couple of things:

• You said your husband is on the ball about the boys having privacy / closing the door when changing etc. I would talk to him about this - privacy isn't just about hiding your body from other people. It's also about learning respectful behaviour around other people and protecting their privacy / dignity. It's good that your husband is aware of the need to teach privacy, but that needs to include respect for others' / social boundaries. I'm sure he doesn't want to inadvertently teach that anything not explicitly hidden is fair game for his son to stare at / touch.
• Similarly, when speaking to your step son, the "you wouldn't like someone staring at you when you are at the toilet" is a good one. But I would want to go a bit further than just "she doesn't like it" to impress upon him that his behaviour (staring) is rude in itself. He needs to learn that he has to regulate his own behaviour and understand what is appropriate - not take away the message that if someone doesn't explicitly say "no" / "I don't like it" that anything he does is fine.

I would also be wondering if he has been watching porn somewhere. Porn does show female bodies as available to be stared at / touched by other people. Some TV shows (eg Nordic murder investigations) also frequently show physical assault/rape/torture in graphic detail. If he has stumbled on something / been shown something by a friend, he may be feeling quite unsettled/disturbed by what he saw - and the staring could be a result of that - trying to reconcile what he has seen with how his physical world works. Is this something your husband could talk to him about?

I have a 9 (nearly 10yr old) and she has never showed any interest in her half sister during nappy time. If she does come over, its to talk in the baby face…she does not look at her private parts. It is very concerning, and I am surprised you have not said anything yet? I would be telling him to go away, not stay and continue looking.

A talk and boundaries need to be put in place. Also keep on eye on your daughter, the NSPCC, PANTS video is great to show to your daughter.

Op just buy simple bolts fro all the doors and fit them yourself, you can remove them when you move....this is totally inapropriate and l don't understand why you cannot say, please go out DD is having her nappy changed and needs privacy..
I am also surprised that you feel you cannot bath her when he is there, tell him to stay out! But also sort the locks

This should never have become an issue, he should very simply just be told to afford her the same privacy people afford him. This can be done with much younger children. It's about respect whether it's just natural curiosity or not.

Would he walk in on you naked in the bathroom?

He's old enough to know he can't just go where he likes when he likes.

I'd be setting some boundaries here and take dd to the bedroom every time.

Get a hasp/pin lock if getting locked out is a concern.

You have a massive DH issue here.

He should be able to respect that her Dd might want some privacy when getting changed. He doesn’t go to the loo in front if everyone. He closes the door. Why nit affording the same to his dd?

The fact that one of the dsc thinks it’s ok to CONSTANTLY come and have a look at their sibling when they are getting changed is also not ok. Regardless of whether there is or isn’t a negative intention, that boy would not do that at school. If he was caught looking at reception class children going to the loo, he would, quite rightly be reprimanded. The same should happen here.

Just now both your DH (who carries in changing her in the main room with everyone else around having a nosey) and the dsc are massively walking all over your dd boundaries.
Curiosity is one thing - it happens one in a while. That’s not curiosity anymore if they make a point if coming over each time (Incl if you are in the bedroom the door is closed etc…)

How is it that people can traipse in and out of the bathroom? Surely it is a matter of minutes to fit a bolt..problem solved!

A.so I’d be wondering why your DH thinks it’s essential to teach privacy to his two boys but somehow thinks that his dd privacy isn’t worth protecting. Or why teaching his boys to respect the privacy of other girls/women/his own dd is not necessary.

He is teaching them all the wrong things.

I’d be concerned about what he has been exposed to online, and would hope his DF would be looking into this. It’s a major problem that is messing up kids’ boundaries and more.

@Alleycat1

How is it that people can traipse in and out of the bathroom? Surely it is a matter of minutes to fit a bolt..problem solved!

Tbh I’ve never had a bolt on my bathroom door and somehow my two dcs have learnt to not come in when someone else is in. They did much earlier in than the age of the dsc too.

The dsc KNOWS he shouldn’t be doing that. There is no doubt about that.

I think the highest chance is that its just curiosity. Hes still prepubescent himself probably at that age. Its really not that unusual for older kids to want to observe nappy changes etc if its a novelty and not something they live with, so its something id probably want to keep an eye on, but try not to jump to it being anything sexual.
Is there anything else, ie trying to be with her alone or other inappropriate behaviour?

Ask his Dad to remind him about privacy and a general chat about boundaries.
Take child into a different room for nappie changes.

@Branleuse

I think the highest chance is that its just curiosity. Hes still prepubescent himself probably at that age. Its really not that unusual for older kids to want to observe nappy changes etc if its a novelty and not something they live with, so its something id probably want to keep an eye on, but try not to jump to it being anything sexual. Is there anything else, ie trying to be with her alone or other inappropriate behaviour?

It’s been going on repeatedly for over a year and he has a DSis of the same age at his DM’s. It cannot be explained by curiosity.

Mine does the same with his little sister. It's normal innocent curiosity as your dh said who probably knows his son well. You need to think about why your reacting like this, posting on step parenting board and whether you'd think differently if he was your biological son.