DSS when DD is having her nappy changed

[Namechangeof2021]

I've put this here rather than on any of the main boards as I don't want an onslaught of people saying I'm horrible or that I'm implying he has nefarious intentions. I'm really not so I hope it doesn't come across that way. It isn't an attack on him, just me looking out for my DD (and maybe some unintentional projection on my part as a CSA survivor) again, I'm not saying he's planning to do anything.

I have a 3 year old DD who isn't yet toilet trained. I have noticed that DSS who is about to start secondary school always makes a point of coming over and looking when I'm changing her. He isn't discrete about it so I don't think he's trying to hide the fact.

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings, and it may well be, but it makes me uncomfortable.

The bathroom is too small and awkward to change her in so It's always the living room (when the older kids aren't in there - but they happen to come in to) or the bedroom, again which they come in to. Dad seems to forget I've raised these things and will happily change her in the same room that they are already in. He'll just walk right up and stand over her.

Would I be unreasonable to have a talk with him myself and ask that he respects DD's privacy when she needs to be changed?

The toddler has quite obviously not suggested they want greater privacy - if they had then yes, I'd agree. the toddler is not aware of the need for privacy. It is up to the parents to ensure they learn this.

After I posted, I started thinking...
Perhaps now is a good time to start talking to all your children about consent and body autonomy.
Turn it into an opportunity to have these discussions

So much minimising and OP blaming! You don’t bath your daughter if your step son is staying. He pushes into her space to see her naked even when you’ve tried to stop it. You’re concerns have been voiced to his father and now you are seeking support On MN.
It’s obviously not a minor concern and I think you need to accept that and act accordingly. Have a direct conversation with him and make sure you have told him not to do it anymore and what he IS to do (eg knock before he comes into rooms with doors shut). If anyone gets arsey/performance offended explain it’s your home, your daughter and that this is normal for your family.

It is certainly unusual, most children take no notice of babies being changed.

Does it bother you that he just walks into your bedroom without asking/knocking when you’re not changing your daughter? I know people have very differing views on children being in bedrooms, but it would really bother me!

I would make a big point of saying “Sophie needs her nappy changing now, I’m going to take her into our bedroom now to do it so she can have some privacy while she’s got no pants on and it’s not disrupting anyone else.” then either put something in front of the door or sit with your back to it.

If he attempts to come in even after you’ve said that then I think you need to have a serious talk with his dad as it’s not normal behaviour.

It won’t address all issues but old fashioned door stoppers are really cheap to buy online to keep the bedroom door closed

A person's right for privacy, even a child's, trump's someone else's curiosity.

I'd give one response of "please respect DDs privacy, we'll be out in a minute" if not, be firm and blunt "enough DS, DD wants privacy, OUT"
Get DH to explain bathroom are out of bounds if someone is using them.

I only have one piece of advice, and that is always follow your instincts as a mum OP and you won't go far wrong. If something feels off, then it's off. Be clear with him, in a matter of fact way and remind your husband that although it's easier for him to ignore an awkward situation, it's not going away and he better bloody support you here.

Start telling him every time "I am going to change X's nappy/bathe her. Do NOT come into the room.

And if he does come in then cover her and tell him to leave the room.

Do this as well as talking to him about her right to privacy and hopefully he will stop doing it.

@DoobryWhatsit

Be open and kind with him, but explain that "privates are private" and that we don't stare (unless we're the one who's having to do the changing!)

Don't be weird, or passive aggressive, or start making "subtle" faces to your husband behind his back etc. Try not to introduce any shame into the situation. (not suggesting that you do this, more that this is unfortunately my own personal experience of having a step mother).

He’s 11 isn’t he? I would honestly be embarrassed to sit my 11 year old down and say ‘now we know our underpants area is private and we must not stare at other people’s private areas.’ Unless he has significant special needs that’s incredibly patronising.

I would go for ‘go out of the room while I’m changing Amy, she doesn’t want you staring at her.’ At his age he knows (or should know) it’s not acceptable or normal to stare at someone else in a state of undress. Presumably it would have been raised at school if he was doing it in gym class.

Not normal by far & very concerning. Your DH needs to step up to help his DS & to protect his DD

They can be sex pests at this age, DD was a target at school & the boys were all sharing clips from pornhub to the girls at 10/11, the ring leader was a butter wouldn't melt type & his mum still wouldn't believe he was involved even when her email was hacked & started sending out porn to everyone in the PTA.

He's an adult now & was recently arrested for rape, another on the sex offenders register for pretending to be a older peado & messaging young girls with lewd messages & dick picks

Anyone who thinks this is innocent curiosity are incredibly out of touch & naive & needs to give their head a wobble. This lad has been exposed to something he shouldn't & needs help & DD needs protecting from him

I don’t know if I have super unrealistic expectations my my oldest is 11 and I honestly don’t think of him the way people on this thread are talking about this boy. Childish curiosity/only 11 so doesn’t know/they’re all children/explain about privates being private, it sounds like some posters think this is a little boy of 4 or 5. At 10/11 a child should know this isn’t acceptable and if they don’t it should take ‘stop staring, go out of the room’ not gentle-gentle underpants talks and buying door stoppers

I would be just as concerned that your SS thinks it ok to barge into your bedroom or bathroom. Don’t you get any privacy either ?
Forget ideas of locks. The rule should be if the door is shut you don’t come in. Instill some basic manners.
As for the staring at your DD I don’t know why you have allowed this to continue for so long. Tell him to GO AWAY.
You know you are in the right here even if your DH doesn’t care.

Sounds more like your step children are just more open in their mother’s house, if your dh has to tell them to shut their bedroom and toilet doors when they are in there. If he has another sibling in his mum’s house of a similar age he may also be used to using eye contact to distract a squirmer. I wouldn’t read anything in to this kind of behaviour from what we are guessing is a 10 year old. How old is he exactly as you haven’t said. He correct age is important in this scenario.

ChoiceMummy
This is a 10-11 year old child you're discussing.
The toddler has quite obviously not suggested they want greater privacy - if they had then yes, I'd agree.

You're making a nothing into a very significant something. That's going to be very divisive moving forward and imo if you don't wish to start that train, accept they're all children and get her potty trained ASAP.

Christ you have a lot to learn 😞

@CowsAreNotGreen

The toddler has quite obviously not suggested they want greater privacy - if they had then yes, I'd agree. the toddler is not aware of the need for privacy. It is up to the parents to ensure they learn this.

I disagree. My child was nonverbal until school age, yet, by 18 months it was blatantly clear that they did not like certain things and wanted privacy.

That's clearly not the case and this is the op making this into a nefarious inference of a young child's very natural behaviour.

YANBU

But by 3yo I think DD should be able to stand up to be changed & would surely have more pull up style than an actual nappy? I don't see the need for a 3yo to lie down with everything on show.

However you just need to tell him straight & explain that it's not appropriate.

@oatlattetogo

Does it bother you that he just walks into your bedroom without asking/knocking when you’re not changing your daughter? I know people have very differing views on children being in bedrooms, but it would really bother me!

I would make a big point of saying “Sophie needs her nappy changing now, I’m going to take her into our bedroom now to do it so she can have some privacy while she’s got no pants on and it’s not disrupting anyone else.” then either put something in front of the door or sit with your back to it.

If he attempts to come in even after you’ve said that then I think you need to have a serious talk with his dad as it’s not normal behaviour.

I’d agree with this.

That's clearly not the case and this is the op making this into a nefarious inference of a young child's very natural behaviour.

He’s almost a teenager. Do you have kids that age out of curiosity? It’s not normal or acceptable for a boy or 10/11/12 to want to follow his baby sister and watch her get changed. The parents would be doing him (and the baby) a disservice by allowing it to continue.

And by the way, just because someone can’t ask for/signal that they want privacy doesn’t mean they don’t deserve respect and dignity. My son was pretty much non verbal (or close to, basically nobody understood him) until about 4. I still didn’t just whip his pants off in front of everyone and let his siblings gawk at his naked body because he didn’t know and it’s just ‘normal childhood behaviour.’

Also ‘young child?’ He’s almost a teen! To me ‘young child’ is about 7 or under, not 12. At what point is it then unacceptable for him to do this? Is it ok when he’s 13? 14? I guess it’s probably still just childhood curiosity when he’s 15.

@RockinHorseShit

ChoiceMummy This is a 10-11 year old child you're discussing. The toddler has quite obviously not suggested they want greater privacy - if they had then yes, I'd agree.

You're making a nothing into a very significant something. That's going to be very divisive moving forward and imo if you don't wish to start that train, accept they're all children and get her potty trained ASAP.

Christ you have a lot to learn 😞

Yup it’s worrying that people don’t see how important rock solid boundaries around a child are, it’s like training wheels, you help them till they are old enough to tell someone to fuck off themselves. 🙄 I wouldn’t want Dd to grow up thinking it’s fine for boys to gawp at her as they please.

@Kanaloa

I don’t know if I have super unrealistic expectations my my oldest is 11 and I honestly don’t think of him the way people on this thread are talking about this boy. Childish curiosity/only 11 so doesn’t know/they’re all children/explain about privates being private, it sounds like some posters think this is a little boy of 4 or 5. At 10/11 a child should know this isn’t acceptable and if they don’t it should take ‘stop staring, go out of the room’ not gentle-gentle underpants talks and buying door stoppers

Agreed. It would be 'scoot off out of that', once it was noticed. Very firmly.

It's not at all acceptable and he is old enough to know a lot better.

@OnTheBenchOfDoom

I would just make a point of saying aloud with him in earshot that you are going to the bedroom to change your DD's nappy and you wish for her to have privacy so no coming into the bedroom.

Good idea

I understand where you're coming from, but in this situation is mostly curiosity and learning to understand and respect each others personal space.

Is he living with you full time?

What you can do, is try to mention indirectly things about personal space and respecting that. Later on, you can have a family conversation about what you want each other to respect as personal time/space. We had to something similar because I've got many nephews but only 1 niece, so the boys were of course excited but didn't understand her. Now we know when everyone's "alone time" is. Example, my dad when he is cooking - it's his time to relax, we all leave the kitchen-, my time/space is when I wear my headphones, one of my nephew's personal time and space is when he is in the loo. He actually loved so much this concept, he goes around the house announcing to ALL that he is going to loo to poo and no one is welcome 😂 His brother on the other hand invites us, because he needs company.

Treat this as an opportunity to set boundaries with each other and learn to respect them.

To be honest, sounds like both your SC lack boundaries and have not been taught even the basics of privacy!
We've never had a lock on our bedroom door, but the children know they must knock and wait for a reply before entering. It really is basic and you don't need a locksmith.