DSS when DD is having her nappy changed

[Namechangeof2021]

I've put this here rather than on any of the main boards as I don't want an onslaught of people saying I'm horrible or that I'm implying he has nefarious intentions. I'm really not so I hope it doesn't come across that way. It isn't an attack on him, just me looking out for my DD (and maybe some unintentional projection on my part as a CSA survivor) again, I'm not saying he's planning to do anything.

I have a 3 year old DD who isn't yet toilet trained. I have noticed that DSS who is about to start secondary school always makes a point of coming over and looking when I'm changing her. He isn't discrete about it so I don't think he's trying to hide the fact.

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings, and it may well be, but it makes me uncomfortable.

The bathroom is too small and awkward to change her in so It's always the living room (when the older kids aren't in there - but they happen to come in to) or the bedroom, again which they come in to. Dad seems to forget I've raised these things and will happily change her in the same room that they are already in. He'll just walk right up and stand over her.

Would I be unreasonable to have a talk with him myself and ask that he respects DD's privacy when she needs to be changed?

And people who are calling this ‘normal childhood curiosity’ presumably don’t have kids of this age. If he was 5/6 then yeah it’s normal childhood curiosity. He’s a high school aged child, not a little boy. I’d be disturbed if my 11yo wanted to actively stare at me changing his little sister. It’s weird behaviour.

Good luck with the talk. in your shoes I'd want to ask a few questions and see what he says about the situation.

Depending on what he says, you will know what to say and do.

Definitely, he should not be doing this and you need to stop it and address it.

"Dad is super on the ball with his older kids privacy. If they're in the bedroom getting changed and the door is left open he's always the first to say oi shut the door you're not dressed, don't leave the bathroom door open if you're using the toilet but with DD it just goes over his head which frustrates the hell out of me because it's not DD, and certainly not me, who's seeking DSS out in various states of undress it's the other way around."

It sounds like your DP doesn't recognise your DD's needs for privacy, and I think he also needs to address this but I would not wait for him to do it, you do it and show him the issue.

Ignore all comments about toiletinig etc this is not about the toilet!

Good luck.

I have an 11 year old and she wouldn't do this. Her brother was around a lot of babies when he was 11 and he always looked away or went away if they were changed.

However I think I'd start just by being firm and saying it's not ok, don't do it and see how it goes. Maybe ask if he has any questions about bodies you could answer? Really be firm though.

Does he display any sexualised behaviour in other ways? That can be a red flag that he's experiencing something he shouldn't.

@Namechangeof2021

There used to be a lock on our bedroom door but isn't anymore because it broke and we were locked out until the next day when the landlord could send a locksmith, he doesn't want any more internal locks after that palava.

Thank you all (well almost all) for not immediately discounting me as being neurotic

You don’t need a ‘locksmith’ type lock - just a bolt high up on the inside of the bedroom door - very easy to fix.

Next time he comes over tell him errm let's close our eyes or we don't look at other people's private parts. I think if he feels a little embarrassed he won't do it again. He needs to be told because it could turn into something a little more if it isn't. It's good you've noticed this.

@iphigeniainaulis some of us are familiar with how sexual abuse starts. Don't minimise it.

@iphigeniainaulis I'd say the same about your response.

I know it's not upper most in your mind right now, but can you keep an eye out for dss in general.

An interest like this rarely comes out of nowhere, so I am wondering where it started as pp mentioned before.

As he is not always with you, you and your dh may not be aware of all the adults he spends time with, what might be happening at school, or even what he's learning from older siblings.

While you need to be firm, I agree with the approach you're taking because the last thing you need to add to the mix is shame and guilt and for you to show anger or any extreme negative reaction tbh.

If there's any beginning of an unusual interest, adding to the mix would not be a good idea.

How does he get on with his dad?

hmmm.
cant help but wonder...if was direct big bro- how would you deal with it??
curiosity..isnt necessarily sinister...
does he change his wee sis at mums? my ds1was 15 when ds2 was born. he watched nappy changed..then said..will i do it.
he was in no manner violating his brother..nappychanging is a life skill.
That said, 3s probli ltd time left in nappy. is she nursery age.?..
easy way around it is..announce.."private business" change her out of range\bathroom. presumeably-he doesnt go toilet with audience. hes old enough to understand its not a spectator sport

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings

He’s still curious 3 years later? I could understand the curiosity if your Dd was under a year old and all of this was new to dss, but your Dd is 3 now. It’s not a novelty anymore. At 10, he should already know about respecting others’ privacy.

Also, to the PPs saying OP’s dd should be out of nappies by 3yo, maybe she has special needs/delays?

@Namechangeof2021 change your dd’s nappy in your bedroom and not the living room.

Does he have a phone OP, maybe his Dad could do a spot-check and see what's on it.

@Scbchl

Id just say "x, no one comes and watches you when you are on the toilet, I'm sure you wouldn't like people seeing your bum being wiped, so can we give y some privacy please when she's getting hers done now, close the door on your way out and Il be out when we are done"

This is what I'd say

That would bother me too.

I would definitely tell him it's not ok and that she needs privacy rather than someone looking at her while you change her.

That being said, the behaviour would lead to me not trusting him around her unless I knew why he was doing it.

How many reasons can there really be for anyone to come over when you are changing a child.

Raise it with dh again but in a "serious talk" style way - no tv on, when the kids are asleep/not present, his attention FULLY on you

Discuss a way you are going to raise it with dss - because this isn't appropriate behaviour and he does need to learn about boundaries

He is entitled to his privacy when changing, in the bath, in the loo etc - so is his sister. "You wouldn't like it if I came in the bathroom while you were using the loo, this is basically the same idea"

Repeat to dh and dss as often as necessary and increasingly forcefully until the message gets through.

He has a sister a similar age at his mum's so is probably used to it not being an issue.

At his age neither sister should be subject to his inappropriate looking, if his parents aren't sorting this they're letting all dc down inc him

You could use a doorstop on the bedroom door but really what needs to happen is he learns NOT to do this

You could also put a "no entry" type sign on the door. Perhaps set up in such a way you can flip it around when you're in there changing youngest.

You can't bath your youngest when the dsc are there?

You have a dh problem! He should be policing and enforcing this and teaching his kids about consent, privacy and boundaries - that should have been started for THEIR sake several years ago!

OP you're way too passive. It concerns me that instead of risking upsetting your DH by saying something, you've stopped bathing your DD when DSS is around. It's not good. You DD welfare should be priority over your DH feelings. You're teaching DD that if there's a problem with someone else's behaviour, it's for her to fix it by changing her behaviour to accommodate the menfolk. That's not a good message to give her.

Is your DH mysoginistic? Wanting privacy for his sons but less CD interested in privacy for his/your DD and the way you seem to be tiptoeing round him, unwilling to upset him.

The "sexy" comment and laughing makes me think he was associating her posture as a deliberate sexy pose. Its worrying that he can think of a small child as someone who might be trying to be sexy. I was thinking he's watched porn before you'd even mentioned the "sexy" comment. He's learned to objectify other people from somewhere. That's what this staring is, at the very least. The "curiosity" argument is bullshit. His behaviour is creepy

There's also a comment that the older kids happen to come in to the living room or the bedroom when the 3 year old is being changed. Maybe the other child comes in but does not "stand over" the changing, but the reason the stepson is singled out is not made clear. Maybe it's because the other child is a stepdaughter. Who knows.

I'd assume it's because they don't gawp at the 3-year-old's genitals.

There's also a comment that the older kids happen to come in to the living room or the bedroom when the 3 year old is being changed. Maybe the other child comes in but does not "stand over" the changing, but the reason the stepson is singled out is not made clear. Maybe it's because the other child is a stepdaughter. Who knows

No. Other child is also male.

I'd assume it's because they don't gawp at the 3-year-old's genitals

Exactly this.

We have private and public body parts. Private parts are only for us to see unless you are unwell and need help from a medical professional with consent.
You shouldn’t look at other people’s private parts and others shouldn’t ask to see yours.

I would tell him she should have privacy and to go outside the room while you change her. He wouldn’t like someone watching him. I think it is at least prurient if not anything more sinister.

@Namechangeof2021

I'm definitely going to have a chat with him tomorrow.. Thank you x

Good for you. It's definitely inappropriate. And have a word to your DH as well - he needs to know what the new rules are.

Trust your gut on this one, OP. Absolutely agree that this is odd behaviour - childish curiosity is one thing but at almost secondary school age I would expect a child to be off doing their thing around the flat and not peering at their little sister having her bum changed. You’ll actually be protecting both kids by putting a stop to this behaviour.

Good grief.
Why does this 11 year need to be told repeatedly not to do something?
When his father told him the first time, that should have been it.

What do you do all the times he comes over to stare?

Tell him off the next time he does it. Be clear that it's wrong.
That should be the end of it.

Does his father parent him, teach him anything at all or does he just leave it all to you?

His father also needs to have other talks with him as well.
About 10/11 is when children these days are exposed to pornography.