Fiance no longer in regular contact with DD

[Nancylove12]

Hi all

I'm sure I will trigger many people with this post. And be dragged by many replies but I am wanting some tangible advice buy someone who maybe in a similar position.

My fiance has two kids age 8 and 6 he separated from the ex 5 years ago now. The split meant my fiance moved 190miles back home. He would see the kids every other weekend at first. But when he started dating again contact was removed. He would travel and the ex would purposely take the kids out and not reply to his messages. This was before I came on the scene. I have seen the messages he saved and his mum first told me the back story . I met my fiance 3.5 years ago. Contact went down to once a month. Then after he tried to get more information via school reports etc the ex changed numbers started playing games. In the last two years there has been hardly any contact at all he hasn't spoken to the ex in over a year any contact goes through his mum who plays both sides as she is scared she will be denied access to the kids. Last year he saw the kids twice. The fight has all gone and he said he's moved on. I always put suggestions as to what to do but he's not interested and prefers to talk about our future and move on from the past. He said he wants a baby with me once we are married. I can't get my head around my baby having siblings they don't really see. If I'm honest we had two years of DRAMA with the ex with boundary issues, insane shouting on the phone and access issues. The last year and a half have been blissful without it but I know the situation isn't right. However, I have stayed out it. I know many will say this man will do the same to you. He pays CMS and I do think if the kids weren't used to emotionally manipulate we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm just asking has anyone experienced something like this? And what would you suggest I do? My finance has emotionally disconnected no tears no depression he's moved on and regrets having children in that situation.

My DP is currently in the middle of a long and extremely stressful legal battle with his ex wife over child contact and legal responsibility for his children. He is not far off a nervous breakdown at this point. It's affected everything negatively: our relationship, our ability to plan a future, everyone's mental health, our finances as it's costing a fortune.
At no point, despite all that would he ever just say 'it's too much, I'll give up and have an easy life' because they are his children and the most important thing in the world to him, as they should be. If he did walk away from them I wouldn't be able to stay with him I don't think because what does doing that say about a person?

There's a little voice inside you that's telling you all is not well. Stay with him if it works for you but you owe a child better. Stay childless if you stay with this man. You're totally underestimating how vulnerable you will be after having a child. How hard it is when you have no time alone. How the lack of sleep makes everything so hard. It's brutally hard for committed parents. This man has children like other people have pets and even then he'd be awful for having left a dog never mind two young children. Those kids will have missed out on so much. Or the ex has a damn good reason that you haven't seen yet for not wanting him near the kids.....there are so many red flags waving in the wind on this one. Maybe try to tackle it with a therapist. My heart breaks for you on this one OP. You deserve SO much better!

I can see this happening with DHs friend. Acrimonious divorce ex DW apparently had mental health issues and had an affair, but when we were over a couple of times there seemed to be other issues and DHs friend was drinking very heavily.

Anyway they separated and both stayed in the country and town they were in - despite it not being their home country for either - for the sake of the DC. Then over lockdown the DF met a woman who lives abroad and all of a sudden his Exw is making it difficult to see the DCs and he has to "think of his own happiness " and is likely to move abroad shortly.Poor kids.

In your case I'd be very wary. Do you want DC ? If so I'd be very wary about history repeating itself. Don't want DCs - I'd be a bit concerned that he finds someone who does a few years down the line.

@Mangomammy

I understand not going through court for access to children.

1 - cost a fucking fortune and not everyone has 20k+ in the bank to pay.
2 - even with a court order the mother could stop contact with no real consequences. Very little can be done to enforce this.
3 - the uncertainty of seeing dad one weekend then not knowing when they’ll see him again isn’t good for children.
4 - the negative impact the whole process has on dad could be too much.
5 - dad could begin the process when the children are slightly older and therefore harder for mum to deny access/ fob children off with lies.

People judging without being in his situation have no idea how hard it is for dads (and their family) who are denied access. The sweeping assumption that dads who don’t see their children are low life/ unemployed/ bams ignore the fact that mothers deny access to good dads as well. It happens all too often.

My EXDP (with considerable help from me), filled in and submitted the court forms, then represented himself when his EXDW was playing silly buggers with access to their DS.

It cost the princely sum of £215 court fees back in 2015, although that might have changed (unlikely to have increased any more than £50), given its 2022 now.

If a man wants to access his DC, he absolutely can, whatever the mother says (parental alienation aside).

@Mangomammy

I understand not going through court for access to children.

1 - cost a fucking fortune and not everyone has 20k+ in the bank to pay.
2 - even with a court order the mother could stop contact with no real consequences. Very little can be done to enforce this.
3 - the uncertainty of seeing dad one weekend then not knowing when they’ll see him again isn’t good for children.
4 - the negative impact the whole process has on dad could be too much.
5 - dad could begin the process when the children are slightly older and therefore harder for mum to deny access/ fob children off with lies.

People judging without being in his situation have no idea how hard it is for dads (and their family) who are denied access. The sweeping assumption that dads who don’t see their children are low life/ unemployed/ bams ignore the fact that mothers deny access to good dads as well. It happens all too often.

Except this whole thing started because the man fucked off 190 miles away as soon as he and his wife split up.

Which very clearly demonstrates where his priorities were, (with himself). Being uninvolved in his toddler children's day-to-day lives was already his plan long before any court battles over access were necessary.

@Starseeking
Great that that’s your experience.
But, it’s not for everyone.

What does a dad to if he goes to collect his children and mum doesn’t open the door/ isn’t home/ has sent the kids away?
What do dads do if mum moves house without taking them?
How do dads cope with daily abuse/ threats from mums?

Sadly it’s not always straight forward. I know of many men who represented themselves, mums didn’t stick to court order, spent thousands on mediation, lawyers, court fees, only for the mum to continue to hinder access. While still paying maintenance, trying to “move on” (moving on meaning work, new home, see family and friends), battling with depression as a result.

I would avoid any man who has not fought to see his children. Also any man that says they regret having their children. Disgusting and he will regret yours too.

Don’t marry into this drama

@Mangomammy

I understand not going through court for access to children.

1 - cost a fucking fortune and not everyone has 20k+ in the bank to pay.
2 - even with a court order the mother could stop contact with no real consequences. Very little can be done to enforce this.
3 - the uncertainty of seeing dad one weekend then not knowing when they’ll see him again isn’t good for children.
4 - the negative impact the whole process has on dad could be too much.
5 - dad could begin the process when the children are slightly older and therefore harder for mum to deny access/ fob children off with lies.

People judging without being in his situation have no idea how hard it is for dads (and their family) who are denied access. The sweeping assumption that dads who don’t see their children are low life/ unemployed/ bams ignore the fact that mothers deny access to good dads as well. It happens all too often.

What a load of bollocks.

I know 2 men in the same situation. The first, according to him, the ex made it very difficult and he walked away. The second (not in the U.K.), she absconded with the baby and he went through a terrible time tracking her down through a tracing agency as the police wouldn’t give him her address. He then pursued contact but she refused. He was concerned about her mental state as she has mh issues and didn’t take her to court. I don’t get it, he co-parented 50/50 with his first child and had a great relationship with his first ex but gave up on this child.

I couldn’t look at either in the same way after this. How can a man go on living his life once he’s left his kids behind. Date nights and hobbies are hollow. I don’t know how I could even going on living if my dh tried to stop me from seeing my dd.

You know this is wrong. Unless he wanted to pursue his ex through the courts, I wouldn’t have anything more to do with him. Dump. He’s not a good prospect.

As the parent of two who's father has no contact, do not have children with this man. He has chosen not to fight for his children. He is making absolutely no effort with them. My ex has had 2 more children since mine, with 2 other women, was engaged to both! He doesn't see them either

@Mangomammy there are children involved in this.

There are adult children who have a relationship with their dad simply because he took their mother to court for contact.

Even though their father was awarded it, their mother played games and their father never saw them growing up.

The reason they now have a relationship and have welcomed their dad back into their lives is because he bothered going to Court.

On the other hand I know people whose father did what the OP partner is doing. Their father turned up when they were between aged 16-18 and they asked their father where he had been. Their father couldn't give them good reasons why they never attempted contact.

Absolutely no excuse to not keep fighting to see your kids. If you do have kids with this man, don't be surprised when he does it to you. I had a friend who walked away from his first child, he met his wife and she was supportive of him doing this. Years later, he's now left the country and not seeing their three children. I don't have any sympathy for her, just the kids. She knew what he was like and supported him doing it. Now she knows how it feels.
I have male friends who have fought to get access, one to a child that isn't biologically theirs. Access has still been granted, she broke the order twice and the second time, the courts warned if she does it again, it's jail time for her.

I'd be interested in why he split from his ex when the children were only 1 and 3.

A lot of fathers can't cope with the demands of small children and so don't pull their weight or look elsewhere. The trust goes, the resentment builds and the relationship breaks down. If this is what happened, why will it be any different if you have a baby with this man? Your fun, stress-free relationship will change and, rather than leaning in, he's likely to cop out.

There are two types of father ime. There are the ones who change nappies without needing to be asked, who know where their children's clothes are kept and what needs to go in the nursery bag, who do their share of night wakings without needing to be woken up, who take their children to the park and shopping alone, who don't bat an eyelid when their partner goes to the gym or goes out with friends once in a while because, for them, taking care of their children alone is something they're used to. They're not 'babysitting', they're parenting. It's natural for them to get up in the morning and make breakfast for their DC without waiting for their wife or partner to do it because that's how they roll. Similarly, tidying away toys, folding laundry and doing the dishwasher. The children are a joint responsible rather than the wife or partner's 'little hobby'.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are dads who won't change nappies because they think it's 'gross' (and therefore can't be left alone to care for their children), who can't do night wakings because they 'sleep too soundly', who can only get their child dressed if the mother leaves clothes out for them and who can only do nursery drop-off if presented with a fully-dressed compliant child and packed backpack. These dads can't take both their children out at weekends because dealing with more than one is too 'hard' and they moan if their partner goes out without them because they get 'stressed' on their own with the kids.

It is much easier for the second type of dad, who has had minimal involvement in and responsibility for their children's day-to-day life, to walk away from their kids than the first. Equal parents don't tend to bail on their kids.

@Goldbar

I'd be interested in why he split from his ex when the children were only 1 and 3.

A lot of fathers can't cope with the demands of small children and so don't pull their weight or look elsewhere. The trust goes, the resentment builds and the relationship breaks down. If this is what happened, why will it be any different if you have a baby with this man? Your fun, stress-free relationship will change and, rather than leaning in, he's likely to cop out.

There are two types of father ime. There are the ones who change nappies without needing to be asked, who know where their children's clothes are kept and what needs to go in the nursery bag, who do their share of night wakings without needing to be woken up, who take their children to the park and shopping alone, who don't bat an eyelid when their partner goes to the gym or goes out with friends once in a while because, for them, taking care of their children alone is something they're used to. They're not 'babysitting', they're parenting. It's natural for them to get up in the morning and make breakfast for their DC without waiting for their wife or partner to do it because that's how they roll. Similarly, tidying away toys, folding laundry and doing the dishwasher. The children are a joint responsible rather than the wife or partner's 'little hobby'.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are dads who won't change nappies because they think it's 'gross' (and therefore can't be left alone to care for their children), who can't do night wakings because they 'sleep too soundly', who can only get their child dressed if the mother leaves clothes out for them and who can only do nursery drop-off if presented with a fully-dressed compliant child and packed backpack. These dads can't take both their children out at weekends because dealing with more than one is too 'hard' and they moan if their partner goes out without them because they get 'stressed' on their own with the kids.

It is much easier for the second type of dad, who has had minimal involvement in and responsibility for their children's day-to-day life, to walk away from their kids than the first. Equal parents don't tend to bail on their kids.

Totally agree with every word of this.

There's a theory that some Jen bond with their children through the mother. So all the time they are happy with her they are decent, involved, loving fathers. But once that bond breaks it also breaks with the children. It's why some men are good step dads or good to their second family but rubbish with their first kids.
If the mum makes things a bit hard, then they have the perfect excuse to be shit and put all the blame on her.

Maybe he thinks his kids are better off not having their parents fighting acrimoniously over them but tbh I can't imagine not seeing my babies and ever being okay with that!

I've read all comments and of course your not wrong at all.
The legal route was discussed but ultimately its very costly we don't have thousands to spend. We don't even have the kids address now.

There are no excuses and sometimes I forget he has kids. As it can feel like a normal relationship. And that's the difficulty. We have been together a while now and it doesn't feel like it's right, there's lots of love and respect there we have been through alot and come out the other side and work well together . I have met the kids and had them had them our house. They know me but lately it's been a cut off from them he has given up. If I was to walk away it wouldn't just be easy. I'd be walking away from a loving relationship that works if that makes sense.

Personally I wouldn’t be starting a family with a deadbeat dad who hasn’t put any effort into seeing his children

So decide not to have children, if he's the one, stick with him.

Don't bring a child into this, it would be knowingly failing as a parent before you even begin.

@Mangomammy

People judging without being in his situation have no idea how hard it is for dads (and their family) who are denied access. The sweeping assumption that dads who don’t see their children are low life/ unemployed/ bams ignore the fact that mothers deny access to good dads as well. It happens all too often.

Ive watched DP going through being stopped from seeing his children. Through support groups I have learned that it is far more common than I previously thought and so now I wouldn't automatically judge that a man not seeing his children is doing so through choice unless I knew that to be the case. However OP does know that her fiancé has made that choice. He has not fought or tried at all to stay in their lives and that's the difference.

However to your other points

1 - cost a fucking fortune and not everyone has 20k+ in the bank to pay.
DP didn't have £20k in his bank either but it didn't stop him and he is still paying off his lawyer's bills, however he's doing it with them safe and happy and living with us. As it was down to their mother purposely blocking contact, the order also ordered for her to pay for a big part of his court fees and as PPs have explained, many men self-represent. Money isn't a reason not to fight to see your children.

2 - even with a court order the mother could stop contact with no real consequences. Very little can be done to enforce this.
I've known many cases where eventually the mother has lost the children when it is clear that this is being done maliciously and to the detriment of the children. But that can only be done through the courts and yes it's a long long and difficult process.

3 - the uncertainty of seeing dad one weekend then not knowing when they’ll see him again isn’t good for children.
4 - the negative impact the whole process has on dad could be too much.
5 - dad could begin the process when the children are slightly older and therefore harder for mum to deny access/ fob children off with lies.

These are all true and I can understand why someone may eventually give up as a result of them. However to give up without even attempting to fight to see them means that these things haven't taken place so can't be a reason for giving up. These would only be valid reasons for someone who has fought to see their kids until they are at their breaking point and /or genuinely concerned about the impact on the children. And even then, the men who give up after all that wouldn't be able to just carry on with their lives happily. The ones I met through DP's support groups who had reached this point were seriously broken. They would have/did struggle to have a relationship with anyone else, many of them would drink or do unhealthy things to distract themselves from how they were feeling. What the OP has described is not someone who has reached their breaking point, but someone who easily left his children behind and carried on his own life as normal.

[quote Mangomammy]@Starseeking
Great that that’s your experience.
But, it’s not for everyone.

What does a dad to if he goes to collect his children and mum doesn’t open the door/ isn’t home/ has sent the kids away?
What do dads do if mum moves house without taking them?
How do dads cope with daily abuse/ threats from mums?

Sadly it’s not always straight forward. I know of many men who represented themselves, mums didn’t stick to court order, spent thousands on mediation, lawyers, court fees, only for the mum to continue to hinder access. While still paying maintenance, trying to “move on” (moving on meaning work, new home, see family and friends), battling with depression as a result.[/quote]
Seriously, “it’s not for everyone”??? What a terrible inconvenience having to file some forms, yes that’s definitely worse than losing your children. People that pathetic shouldn’t be having unprotected sex

I don't understand how you can even respect a man that has done this to his children. Let alone love him.

I wouldn't even have a friendship with a man like him.

@Goldbar

I'd be interested in why he split from his ex when the children were only 1 and 3.

A lot of fathers can't cope with the demands of small children and so don't pull their weight or look elsewhere. The trust goes, the resentment builds and the relationship breaks down. If this is what happened, why will it be any different if you have a baby with this man? Your fun, stress-free relationship will change and, rather than leaning in, he's likely to cop out.

There are two types of father ime. There are the ones who change nappies without needing to be asked, who know where their children's clothes are kept and what needs to go in the nursery bag, who do their share of night wakings without needing to be woken up, who take their children to the park and shopping alone, who don't bat an eyelid when their partner goes to the gym or goes out with friends once in a while because, for them, taking care of their children alone is something they're used to. They're not 'babysitting', they're parenting. It's natural for them to get up in the morning and make breakfast for their DC without waiting for their wife or partner to do it because that's how they roll. Similarly, tidying away toys, folding laundry and doing the dishwasher. The children are a joint responsible rather than the wife or partner's 'little hobby'.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are dads who won't change nappies because they think it's 'gross' (and therefore can't be left alone to care for their children), who can't do night wakings because they 'sleep too soundly', who can only get their child dressed if the mother leaves clothes out for them and who can only do nursery drop-off if presented with a fully-dressed compliant child and packed backpack. These dads can't take both their children out at weekends because dealing with more than one is too 'hard' and they moan if their partner goes out without them because they get 'stressed' on their own with the kids.

It is much easier for the second type of dad, who has had minimal involvement in and responsibility for their children's day-to-day life, to walk away from their kids than the first. Equal parents don't tend to bail on their kids.

So true. Unfortunately you often don't find out which type they are until it's too late! I have a type 1 and can't imagine accepting anything less, one of my friends who had a baby with a man on the other end of the spectrum once remarked how good my partner is that he changes nappies for me without me having to ask when we were all at the pub for lunch. It made me very sad for her.

@Nancylove12

I've read all comments and of course your not wrong at all. The legal route was discussed but ultimately its very costly we don't have thousands to spend. We don't even have the kids address now.

There are no excuses and sometimes I forget he has kids. As it can feel like a normal relationship. And that's the difficulty. We have been together a while now and it doesn't feel like it's right, there's lots of love and respect there we have been through alot and come out the other side and work well together . I have met the kids and had them had them our house. They know me but lately it's been a cut off from them he has given up. If I was to walk away it wouldn't just be easy. I'd be walking away from a loving relationship that works if that makes sense.

What a huge loss that would be to your life. Does it hurt you every week when you take the trash out to the binmen? Seriously, consider what matters to you in life and who you want to be as a person. Grow a spine and a sense of morals.

The legal route was discussed but ultimately its very costly we don't have thousands to spend. We don't even have the kids address now.

Many men self-represent so it doesn't have to cost more than a couple of hundred.