Christmas (already)

[AutumnLeafy]

DH has already had the start of the annual festive drama. This year is mum's year to have the DSC for Christmas but she doesn't want them this year as her boyfriend's child is coming on boxing day so they want to do a family thing then.

All fine but due to the every other year system we are going to see my family this year with LO. So I've said if she really insists then the DSC will just have to come with us to my parents and I'm not asking them to tone down if they want to spoil LO. It's not LO's fault.

Anyway now DH isn't happy because he doesn't want to be the one to say DSC aren't welcome at his either. I've said they are welcome but it's not going to be a great Christmas day spending it with my family knowing their own mum doesn't want them. Just ranting really. There's an agreement for a reason but she likes to try and break it then make DH look bad.

[quote Magda72]@AutumnLeafy please ignore the nasty & negative comments. The majority of people posting 'get' exactly where you & dh are coming from & can tell the dcs are very much loved & cared for & wanted. .[/quote]
Thank you.

@Getawaywithit

Children have an absolute right to expect both of their parents to be available to and for them on a 24/7 basis

What you really mean is children have a right to expect their mothers to be available 24/7. Because what happens - very clearly demonstrated in this thread - is that men can move on with a new partner without any judgement whatsoever. The fact that the new relationship is generally facilitated by an EOW contact arrangement largely ignored. Once said man has new partner and a level of respectability in society as a family, it becomes acceptable to question the mother when she too attempts to move on. ‘Bad mother’ is bandied around if it takes more than on relationship to get it right, or if mum likes to go out on a regular basis and have fun and maybe meet someone new along the way. She’s supposed to be a mother ffs, not out having fun. It’s clear here in this thread that from behind the rather dubious respectability of blended family, we can judge another woman’s attempt at moving on without actually knowing what her reasoning for handing over Xmas day might be. We just assume and label and name call from our position of blended family respectability rather than single mum with partner probably just trying to please everyone. How dare mothers move on, eh

That's quite a reach, projecting much? This is just concerning Christmas, of which they have an agreed alternating arrangement.

Poor judged mummy?

This is a woman that tried to palm her own kids off on Christmas Day because she'd rather spend it alone with her new boyfriend. She then rightfully got called out on being shitty parent. Realised she didn't have a leg to stand on (especially as she was trying to go against an order in place) and has "graciously" agreed to have her own children with a comment like "clearly you don't want them". The only person who didn't want them, was you, love. Pathetic. Vile.

Because what happens - very clearly demonstrated in this thread - is that men can move on with a new partner without any judgement whatsoever.
This is a ridiculous comment in the context of this thread.
This thread is NOT about the right or wrongs about parents moving on! It's about one parent expecting a long established routine; one which involves a lot of people, to be upended at short notice (& in the context of an extended family Christmas it is short notice) just because it now suits her!

Poor little tiddlywinks. They can come and spend Christmas with us if they like!

OP, by October lots of families have got rough plans for Christmas in mind. And often something will change and the upheaval would leave anyone feeling a bit put out. The children thought one thing was happening and now it's another. You and DH thought one thing was happening and now it's another. But it's a joyous time made infinitely better by having more family around. A blended family is often, by definition, a larger family. And large families are often subject to all sorts of unscheduled surprises. Obviously you and DH love these children and will give them a fab Christmas. Don't you and your parents worry about the gift discrepancies either. They have a mum and dad to think on that, if needed.

Try to relax. It really is just one day.

Oh and Merry Christmas

@Magda72 agreed.

Also on the flip said if we swapped out mum for dad and he was asking for the same thing mum has with his new partner he would be flamed here too.

It's not about someone being allowed to move on or not. It's about plans that have been demanded turned up in the air. Most people in the situation would accept this was a cheeky request and not start gaslighting there ex. Also it would be a request not a demand.

@Getawaywithit

Children have an absolute right to expect both of their parents to be available to and for them on a 24/7 basis

What you really mean is children have a right to expect their mothers to be available 24/7. Because what happens - very clearly demonstrated in this thread - is that men can move on with a new partner without any judgement whatsoever. The fact that the new relationship is generally facilitated by an EOW contact arrangement largely ignored. Once said man has new partner and a level of respectability in society as a family, it becomes acceptable to question the mother when she too attempts to move on. ‘Bad mother’ is bandied around if it takes more than on relationship to get it right, or if mum likes to go out on a regular basis and have fun and maybe meet someone new along the way. She’s supposed to be a mother ffs, not out having fun. It’s clear here in this thread that from behind the rather dubious respectability of blended family, we can judge another woman’s attempt at moving on without actually knowing what her reasoning for handing over Xmas day might be. We just assume and label and name call from our position of blended family respectability rather than single mum with partner probably just trying to please everyone. How dare mothers move on, eh

First of all, NO, children do not have the absolute right to have both parents available 24/7 - who on earth actually believes this?? Parents have other things in their lives, like jobs and family and friends, they are not slaves.

Secondly, nobody has said she can't move on??!!! Just that she can't demand pre-arranged Christmas plans with her ex's family be changed to accommodate her wish to celebrate Christmas on Boxing Day when her bf is there. No issue with her asking and I'm sure they would have swapped happily if it wasn't for them already agreeing to spend 26th with DH's family.

I know if it was OP on here saying "My DH is pissed off because his ex won't cancel her family Christmas plans so that we can celebrate together with our respective children on that day" you would not be supporting that Getawaywithit and neither would you Tattler2.

The mum has left it a bit late to make a change this year, that's all. She can celebrate altogether with her bf and the children later in the week, rather than on Boxing Day when she was never due to have the children as it is.

Next year I'm sure there will be no issue with getting in sync with when her bf has his child if it's agreed early enough. The only problem is the plans that are already made based on the existing agreement this year.

*First of all, NO, children do not have the absolute right to have both parents available 24/7 - who on earth actually believes this?? Parents have other things in their lives, like jobs and family and friends, they are not slaves.

Secondly, nobody has said she can't move on??!!! Just that she can't demand pre-arranged Christmas plans with her ex's family be changed to accommodate her wish to celebrate Christmas on Boxing Day when her bf is there. No issue with her asking and I'm sure they would have swapped happily if it wasn't for them already agreeing to spend 26th with DH's family.

I know if it was OP on here saying "My DH is pissed off because his ex won't cancel her family Christmas plans so that we can celebrate together with our respective children on that day" you would not be supporting that Getawaywithit and neither would you Tattler2.

The mum has left it a bit late to make a change this year, that's all. She can celebrate altogether with her bf and the children later in the week, rather than on Boxing Day when she was never due to have the children as it is.

Next year I'm sure there will be no issue with getting in sync with when her bf has his child if it's agreed early enough. The only problem is the plans that are already made based on the existing agreement this year.*

Well said *LittleMysSister

In this case, this is not a gendered issue, and no children do not have a right to 100% of their parents time 🙄

All parents arrange things around when they expect to have their children and otherwise, including basic things like work and hobbies. That simply becomes more complicated and more in need of extensive planning when the parents are seperated.

Exactly @aSofaNearYou.

Separated parents have to plan far in advance to get all the pieces into place. My DP and his ex have already ironed out this Christmas. If, for instance, she turned around and asked him to switch days now, it would impact not only DP and me, but also PIL, BIL and his children, AND BIL's in-laws, as well as my family too. It just wouldn't work, and same if my DP tried it the other way round as his ex will have plans with her parents, her sister & children etc etc.

Absolutely no harm in making changes but they just need to be sorted earlier than this because everyone starts coordinating the various arms of their family!

@LittleMysSister

Exactly *@aSofaNearYou*.

Separated parents have to plan far in advance to get all the pieces into place. My DP and his ex have already ironed out this Christmas. If, for instance, she turned around and asked him to switch days now, it would impact not only DP and me, but also PIL, BIL and his children, AND BIL's in-laws, as well as my family too. It just wouldn't work, and same if my DP tried it the other way round as his ex will have plans with her parents, her sister & children etc etc.

Absolutely no harm in making changes but they just need to be sorted earlier than this because everyone starts coordinating the various arms of their family!

Similar here. If my DPs ex asked him to have DSS this Christmas not only would it mean I had to cancel seeing my parents as planned, it would also mean that we would no longer have DSS on the same years his cousins who he loves dearly are not seeing my DPs brother's wife's parents instead of my DPs. So he wouldn't get to play with them on any Christmas' any more.

As soon as you start unpicking things, it becomes evident why it is easier all around to stick to alternating as agreed. And if you're going to try and swap things, make suggestions early in the year, because I would feel extremely rude cancelling spending Christmas with my parents as they've been expecting all year at this point in the year, whereas I might have considered it in February.

OP you don't have to justify your DH swapping weekends or days.

His ex is just a CF.

I don't apologize for believing that these children have parents who are both less than stellar parents. Children do no deserve to be bandied about like so much inconvenience baggage by either parent. I would never say anything less than fine If my children were to become more available to me on any occasion. How is it even possible to"dump" a child on their parent. With one or other or both of the parents is where the have an absolute right to be. You cannot be dumped into the custody of your parent ever.

The attitude that a parent is doing anything other than what they should be doing when they have their child is just to me a mind boggling thought process. What in the world does 24/7 parenting responsibility mean to so many people? We are so willing to criticize some and applaud others for giving thought as to how convenient or inconvenient it is to have their own children on a given occasion.

God knows that I would not want to be a child where may mother or father had to give even a moments thought to the convenience or inconvenience that my presence might have on their holiday plans.

Maybe hospitals should post signs in maternity wards reminding new parents that they are signing on for a 24/7 commitment regardless of the level of personal inconvenience.

@Tattler2
Well you and I must have very different views on parenting. My children should not expect me to be available to them 24/7 when their other parent is available and capable too.

My children are the most important part of my life, HOWEVER just because I gave them life it doesn’t mean I gave them my life.
I am still an individual being with my own needs and wants that require nurturing to enable me to be a stable and happy person.

Tattler you must surely at least have some understanding that separated parents have to have some kind of schedule in order to live their lives??

You cannot just expect someone you are separated from to be at your beck and call to have/not have their children as per the agreement made.

Separated parents HAVE to organise their lives around when they have their children, they have no choice. They cannot always be available to have the children to help the other parent out on demand.

OP has already said multiple times that the children are welcome at her family's home for Christmas day, her only concern was that they wouldn't enjoy it. They would have had the children both Christmas Day and Boxing Day, but that isn't what the mum wasted - she wanted to pull her children out of their day celebrating with their paternal grandparents etc.

I don't understand how you think it's a bad thing that this father wants to celebrate Christmas with his children and his family on Boxing Day, instead of just giving them back to their mum so she can celebrate with her bf instead????

*isn't what the mum wanted

@SpongebobNoPants
In my opinion ,when you have a child the only commitment that you can make for 24/7 responsibility that you can make is for your own person. Most of us chose to have a child with a spouse/partner who we also 'expect ' to be a24/7 parent ,but in truth we can only make that commitment for ourselves.
In choosing to have a child you are making a decision to place the well being, safety, comfort of that child above your own convenience, and on many occasions above your personal preferences, and even personal happiness. So many people would say without hesitation that they would die for their child if necessary but not as many people are so quick to say that they would live for their child if living involves any real measure of inconvenience or personal sacrifice..

You don't get to avoid a 24/7 responsibility when it does not lead to or if it conflicts with your personal preferences and personal happiness.

@Tattler2 So if, in an unseperated family, one parent were to drop their child off while the other one was in a work meeting, or on a prearranged night out, or an exercise class, that wouldn't be an inconvenience?

Of course there are times where having your child is an inconvenience. You are conflating that with them being unwelcome, or their presence not being enjoyed. It's perfectly normal for adults to make practical plans organised around having them at a certain time or not, and for it to pose an issue to then change those plans.

I don't think many people do expect to be a parent 24/7 though, in the sense of being constantly available all the time to physically be with their child?

Otherwise they would have to both be at home, not working, no other commitments at all. They would never use babysitters or childcare.

Although again, in this scenario, the dad was happy to have them extra, he just didn't want to not have them for the original day as well.

@Tattler2 being a responsible parent works both ways. One parent doesn’t get to absolve themselves of responsibility to suit their own, which is what’s happening with the OP’s SC’s mum.
Responsible parents stick to agreements and try and do what’s best for their children, their mum isn’t doing this. It’s that simple.

I know what it takes to have 24/7 responsibility. I have been a single parent to my daughter for 11 years.

I put her needs first, not always her wants though.

Separated parents have to plan far in advance to get all the pieces into place

Some separated parents. Not all. I certainly don't have to because I have no family - only child, dead parents. My ex is estranged from his family. There is no need for us to plan in advance, let alone far in advance! We might be unusual but suggesting that 2 months notice isn't enough is somewhat disingenous. It might not be enough for some families but it would be more than enough for others.

I know if it was OP on here saying "My DH is pissed off because his ex won't cancel her family Christmas plans so that we can celebrate together with our respective children on that day" you would not be supporting that Getawaywithit and neither would you Tattler2

What I don't support is the nastiness towards the ex when the OP admittedly only understands that the request for a swap is about trying to do Xmas with her new partner's children. I see nothing unreasonable about only doing Xmas once from a stress, financial and logistical point of view. I object to posters naming her 'bad mum' when there is absolutely no idea of what her back story might be and the reasons for the request - assumptions she wants a cosy Xmas with her new partner and the associated name calling as a result is pretty low, in my opinion, when there could be so much more to it.

The inability to accept that there can be two perfectly reasonable sides to situations like this is what leads to conflict - there are suggestions that the OP should make sure her story is fed to the children before the mother feeds her story to them. I mean seriously, let's tell the kids their mother is shite without any understanding of what may have lead to the request in the first place. That's just spoiling for a fight and puts the children right in the middle of their parents, almost demanding that they take sides. My kids have spent years and years and years being let down by their dad and I have sat on my hands and kept my mouth shut. It took a long time, but eventually they got it. And you know what, they love their dad warts and all which is how it should be. Their relationship should never have been influenced by me but it would have been had I attempted to get in first after every disagreement.

So just do Xmas whatever way works for you and say nothing at all. If mum is in the wrong here, the kids will work it out for themselves soon enough.

@Tattler2 let me repeat myself. At no point has my DH said he doesn't want his children for Christmas. Or that he won't have them for Christmas AND boxing day if that is what works best. What he will not do is give up the arranged plans to see his (and the DSC's) family on boxing day. I really don't get how you are getting that he sees them as an inconvenience when he has offered to have them more!

And I'm the first to call out DH if I think he's being unreasonable towards the ex and he often asks me for a "sanity check".

I see nothing unreasonable about only doing Xmas once from a stress, financial and logistical point of view I see what you're saying. But her partner can do Christmas with his child the next day at his own house if the thought of 2 Christmases is too much for mum.

@Getawaywithit I do completely agree with you that mum has done nothing wrong to ask. I am certainly not one of the people who called her a bad mum for trying to sort this out, and wouldn't do so.

However what I do think is wrong is that when OP's DH said no, she subsequently turned the request on him and accused him of 'not wanting the children there' and 'not putting the children first', when it's actually her who specifically doesn't want them to be with her on Christmas Day so she doesn't have to celebrate twice.

And I also get frustrated with the amount of comments on here which consider dads as second-class parents. Not directed at you, but there have been many comments with people criticising him for not immediately cancelling his Boxing Day plans with his children and his own parents & family so that his ex can do what she wanted with her boyfriend. Or saying that if he doesn't agree then he's risking not getting to see them over Christmas?!! Mums don't just lend children out to their fathers, he has every right to expect to have them as agreed and it's unbelievable to me that people think he's in the wrong for not being able to change his plans on demand like this.

Re not everyone having to organise in advance, of course it's true that if you don't have any family you don't have to worry about organising ahead of time, but that's not the case for OP otherwise there would be no issue.