Christmas (already)

[AutumnLeafy]

DH has already had the start of the annual festive drama. This year is mum's year to have the DSC for Christmas but she doesn't want them this year as her boyfriend's child is coming on boxing day so they want to do a family thing then.

All fine but due to the every other year system we are going to see my family this year with LO. So I've said if she really insists then the DSC will just have to come with us to my parents and I'm not asking them to tone down if they want to spoil LO. It's not LO's fault.

Anyway now DH isn't happy because he doesn't want to be the one to say DSC aren't welcome at his either. I've said they are welcome but it's not going to be a great Christmas day spending it with my family knowing their own mum doesn't want them. Just ranting really. There's an agreement for a reason but she likes to try and break it then make DH look bad.

This is true. He could ask what she's doing so he can explain it to the kids.

Something like explain to the children that '''Mum will be seeing you just the day after Christmas because she wants to be given a good Christmas Stuffing as a priority'. Merry Christmas kids'

@Springplanting

OP you are being very nice to your DSC. But that mother is a CF. Literally. I think she's taking the goodwill to all men a bit tooo far. She is taking the pee. Thin end of the wedge an all...

DH is making noises about putting his foot down and saying no. And then we'll just be prepared for them to turn up on Christmas eve! If that happens I don't think we'll be taking them back boxing day. I don't know though, he might get in trouble for that?

DH is right. I am glad he has stepped up. He has been put in a shitty position from the mother of his kids. And yes if they do turn up Christmas Eve (although I would get round this informing all parties that this years arrnagements DO NOT change for the sake of boyfriend's idea) and yes your house your Christmas your rules. His ex and her lothario do not dictate terms.

as in if they stay with you Boxing Day at your wish then she will have to accept that that is the consequences for taking the piss. Smell that cheese! Merry Christmas

@AutumnLeafy

Your step children are more important than your family surely in all honesty, no they are not. They are to the family unit but not to me personally. It is the line stepparents have to tread.

But his children are obviously his priority over your family surely.

@AutumnLeafy - Correction. My apologies yes you are right. Depending on the terms of the defined access if that is what they have or a court order then yes he could be in hot water.

The simplest answer is what DH is noising about. Just tell her No. And I think it is her and boyfriend that want the kids out of the way for them to spend 25th alone. Remind her that kids do put a dent in your sex life and that's tough.

Her agreement and kids come before any bloke.

@AutumnLeafy well what's she gonna do if you don't give them back Boxing Day ? Send the police around ? Hound your house which you won't be there so she will just have to humbug.

Going to church - I wouldn't worry actually I know you want SC to enjoy Christmas but this is your routine abs Christmas is about family so you can't cater for all. Frankly most kids don't love church's so that's not a step issue so much a kids issue.

Your tying yourself into knots, don't your clearly a fab sm and kids will that xxx

@SpongebobNoPants

No I wouldn't because they aren't massive consumerist greed fests which is the very opposite of the religion they purport to represent.

I stand by my dislike of what western Christmas represents and reject your analogy to other religions.

@WaterBottle123 you’ve clearly never celebrated Eid then. Lots of presents and SURPRISE… family time

Reject it all you like @WaterBottle123. You have no idea how individuals celebrate Christmas. OP has stated her family are Christians and it’s an important day for them.

His ex and her lothario do not dictate terms

Lothario? How about we refer to the OP as the fancy piece?

Way too many assumptions about the ex. None of them grounded in anything other than speculation. Really weird thread.

Because OP hass been kind and generous and accomodating and considerate and not moved the goal post.

There is no reason why their mum couldn't see them on Christmas Day aswell as having the combined Boxing Day. I think the boyfriend is putting himself before the mum's own kids. The mum is no better.

OP's DH is right about putting his foot down.

But his children are obviously his priority over your family surely.

That’s fine. They might not be a priority to everyone else though.

They’re clearly not a priority to the mum for starters if she puts off seeing them until her stepchildren arrive. If a dad did that it wouldn’t go down well on here

I get where you're coming from OP - it's a shame that their mum has decided to shake things up like this as it means her children will now spend Christmas Day with a bunch of random people (to them).

That said, that's just the way it is and I think your DH is wrong to expect you to not go to your family just because of this.

Also, I'd tell him to confirm with ex that this won't affect plans for next year when presumably you'll all spend the day with SCs and his family. She can't turn around and say she wants SCs next Christmas because she didn't have them this year through her own choice.

@Springplanting

Because OP hass been kind and generous and accomodating and considerate and not moved the goal post.

There is no reason why their mum couldn't see them on Christmas Day aswell as having the combined Boxing Day. I think the boyfriend is putting himself before the mum's own kids. The mum is no better.

OP's DH is right about putting his foot down.

Which means dad doesn't see them at all. The mum might be quite happy to do both days - don't think that has been mentioned at all? Would the OPs DP be happy with that?

Yes, she is taking the piss - 100%. But your plans with your family are not her concern tbh. She is asking their dad for a swap. He can say no, then runs the risk of not seeing them at all. From her perspective the only reason he would say no is to keep you happy. So like her he is prioritising his romantic relationship. Neither are wrong; or both are wrong?

Not really the same thing. He made his plans for his romantic relationship (ie his wife, younger child and extended family) based on the existing arrangements for his children. He has also made plans for the children to see their family on the day they are meant to be with him.
She wants to change the existing arrangements for her children to better suit her new romantic relationship.
It's not the same thing at all.

Unbelievable comments on here battering OP and her DH for 'not putting the kids first' or being selfish when it's THEIR MOTHER who has sacked them off on CHRISTMAS DAY!!!!! just because she wants to do it the following day instead.

Now...I don't even think it's a problem for their mum to want to do that and to ask her ex about if it's an option, BUT if it means your teen children (ie not little ones who are happy to be anywhere) have to spend the day with a family they barely know rather than seeing their paternal grandparents etc as planned on Boxing Day, then surely you find another plan??

There is no reason she couldn't have done Christmas with them as she normally would and then celebrated all together with her boyfriend and his child later in the week.

OP and her DH have done nothing wrong here at all, and I completely understand the worry about SCs having a bit of a rubbish day as I know my SCs would 100% rather spend Christmas with their own cousins and grandparents instead of my family, who they barely know.

Which means dad doesn't see them at all. The mum might be quite happy to do both days - don't think that has been mentioned at all? Would the OPs DP be happy with that?

Yes, she is taking the piss - 100%. But your plans with your family are not her concern tbh. She is asking their dad for a swap. He can say no, then runs the risk of not seeing them at all. From her perspective the only reason he would say no is to keep you happy. So like her he is prioritising his romantic relationship. Neither are wrong; or both are wrong?

Pink Ginny, I don't understand your logic at all in this??

How come if he doesn't agree to the swap he doesn't get to see the children at all?? As much as OP's family plans aren't the ex's problem, her plans with her boyfriend are OP & DH's problem either. If anyone doesn't see the children either day, it will be their mum, not their dad, who has not switched any plans. I'm sure he would also be happy to do both days.

Also OP's main concern is that the SCs will have a bit of a shit day if they have to spend it with a family they barely know instead of their own, and watch other children getting more gifts etc. They may feel like spare parts. That is the only reason DH would say no, not to 'prioritise his romantic relationship'.

Surely the person who is actually prioritising their romantic relationship is their mum, who doesn't want her children for Christmas Day because she'd rather do it with her boyfriend on 26th?!!

Yes, she is taking the piss - 100%. But your plans with your family are not her concern tbh. She is asking their dad for a swap. He can say no, then runs the risk of not seeing them at all. From her perspective the only reason he would say no is to keep you happy. So like her he is prioritising his romantic relationship. Neither are wrong; or both are wrong?

Neither are unreasonable for wanting to have them at the time that suits their relationship and wider family.

But only one of them would be going against the prior arrangement that has been agreed upon and organised around for years, messing up those plans and also potentially upsetting the children who will be expecting to be with their mum this year.

That is why of the two, her wishes don't get priority.

@LittleMysSister - the risk is he says no and she says fine but continues with her plans for Boxing Day anyway so he doesn't see them. Also yes the OP's concerns are that they will have a shit day; her DP recognises this so suggests they stay at home - he won't do this however as the OP wants (not unreasonably) her day with her family. So he is prioritising her i.e. his romantic relationship.

@aSofaNearYou - as is being discussed on another thread things change when an 'ex' stops being single. Prior arrangements can't be expected to last for ever, apparently. So it is unreasonable to suggest there can't ever be change - 2 months notice would be plenty much time in my world. And tbf 6 months notice wouldn't have been enough in this scenario - the circle can't be squared.

As to potentially upsetting the children - we all as adults do things that upset our children either because we want to; or feel we need to. Just as the children's dad is choosing to - he could stay at home with them, either with or without the OP and not take them to a house of strangers etc. etc.

The DP could say no I can't have them on Christmas Day, our plans are made and the children wouldn't enjoy it. But then allow them to have Boxing Day at their mum's too- take the hit this year I guess. And plan his Boxing Day for the 27th perhaps.

Not sure there is a good outcome to be had - someone will be pissed off and resentful whichever way it goes and that is never a good place to be.

Back in everyone else's world, it's easy to see how getting everyone's rotas/days off/travel arrangements/plans with in-law's etc all lined up so that particular groups of people can be together on particular days might require more than 2 months notice.
As per the other thread you refer to, arrangements can an should change as life moves on and children grow and life throws spanners in the works.
Again, that's not what is happening here. She's decided to drive a coach and horse through potentially dozens of peoples plans to see each other at Christmas. Because it suits her romantic relationship, which I'm afraid doesn't hold the same water as OPs DH wanting to spend the day with his wife and younger child, who isn't less important than his other children by the way.

@PinkGinny alternating Christmas' can be expected to be broadly kept to excepting emergencies, as it means a lot to both parties and takes a lot of organising, usually in a manner that rolls on year after year. You cannot alter it without a domino effect on all your other plans. It is unique in that regard as other events either party might want flexibility on will not involve others and THEIR plans. 2 months or 6 months, neither is enough unless there isn't another side of the family to consider. Either way it messes the other side around.

I don't know quite what you're trying to prove here. No she isn't unreasonable to WANT it to change or to ask, is that what your issue is?

But that doesn't mean everything is on a level in terms of how reasonable it is.

She is not on a level with OPs husband in terms of putting their partner first, because their dad has specifically organised his life WITH HER to avoid this, and she has proposed scrapping that at the last minute, leaving him in an awkward position. It's not fair to turn around and say he is as much of a problem as her, there is a reason an agreement was made in the first place.

@Youseethethingis

Back in everyone else's world, it's easy to see how getting everyone's rotas/days off/travel arrangements/plans with in-law's etc all lined up so that particular groups of people can be together on particular days might require more than 2 months notice. As per the other thread you refer to, arrangements can an should change as life moves on and children grow and life throws spanners in the works. Again, that's not what is happening here. She's decided to drive a coach and horse through potentially dozens of peoples plans to see each other at Christmas. Because it suits her romantic relationship, which I'm afraid doesn't hold the same water as OPs DH wanting to spend the day with his wife and younger child, who isn't less important than his other children by the way.

But he can spend the day with his wife and younger child AND his other children making merry - just not with his wife's broader family if he wants to ensure ALL his children are relaxed and happy.

I am not at any point arguing that he should; nor have I suggested any child should be prioritised over another.

And tbf his ex won't give a shiny shit about the dozens of people in the OPs broader family - it just won't be part of her decision making.

For her it is a simple request to the children father to swap days over this year, with > 2 months notice how is that any different to 'arrangements can an [sic] should change as life moves on'. He can say no (and probably should say no) - they all then need to work out what happens next.

But he can spend the day with his wife and younger child AND his other children making merry - just not with his wife's broader family if he wants to ensure ALL his children are relaxed and happy.

Only if you assume OP has no choice in the matter and exists to do his bidding.

@PinkGinny But I don't see why your default position is that the dad should miss out on/change his plans with the children though when it's his ex who has caused the issue?

As to potentially upsetting the children - we all as adults do things that upset our children either because we want to; or feel we need to. Just as the children's dad is choosing to - he could stay at home with them, either with or without the OP and not take them to a house of strangers etc. etc.

The DP could say no I can't have them on Christmas Day, our plans are made and the children wouldn't enjoy it. But then allow them to have Boxing Day at their mum's too- take the hit this year I guess. And plan his Boxing Day for the 27th perhaps.

This whole section of your comment is entirely focused on how the dad is choosing to upset his children and could change things and take the hit - why are you not saying the mum could have her Boxing Day with her bf on the 27th?

Mum needs to carry on with the arranged plan, have her children on Christmas Day and make another date with her boyfriend and his child the next day or later in the week. It shouldn't all fall on the dad's shoulders to make her plans workable.