Christmas (already)

[AutumnLeafy]

DH has already had the start of the annual festive drama. This year is mum's year to have the DSC for Christmas but she doesn't want them this year as her boyfriend's child is coming on boxing day so they want to do a family thing then.

All fine but due to the every other year system we are going to see my family this year with LO. So I've said if she really insists then the DSC will just have to come with us to my parents and I'm not asking them to tone down if they want to spoil LO. It's not LO's fault.

Anyway now DH isn't happy because he doesn't want to be the one to say DSC aren't welcome at his either. I've said they are welcome but it's not going to be a great Christmas day spending it with my family knowing their own mum doesn't want them. Just ranting really. There's an agreement for a reason but she likes to try and break it then make DH look bad.

So like her he is prioritising his romantic relationship.
Eh no, he's not! He has another child who is no less important than his other children & is deserving of equal priority.
What's going on here is that op & their child & that child's time with close extended family is supposed to take a back seat to the dm's (new!) boyfriend & his arrangements with his own ex.
It's absolutely not on. If the ex wants to change the arrangement moving forward, fine - but for this year she should just stick to the existing arrangement instead of upending the applecart on everyone.

And tbf his ex won't give a shiny shit about the dozens of people in the OPs broader family - it just won't be part of her decision making.

See this is where we differ, because my SCs mum would definitely take this into account - not for my sake, but for her children's.

There is no way she would follow through with a plan like this if she knew it meant her children would have to miss out on a nice day with their own grandparents and family and would instead have to spend it with my family who they barely know at all.

That's not to say she wouldn't be welcome to ask for a change but if she knew it meant this then she would change her own plans rather than expect my DP to cancel everything with his family for her benefit.

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

And tbf his ex won't give a shiny shit about the dozens of people in the OPs broader family - it just won't be part of her decision making.

Then that's a shame because she's not acting for what's in best interest for her children who she's supposed to prioritise.
My DH ex may not be great at all times but she would care, maybe not from the extended family element but the situation which her children will now have to face.

What's that saying "people who don't care are made to care". How can people criticise the step mum for caring more about the step kids and over look mums behaviours here ? 🤯

I'm so glad some sensible comments/ posters have come on here. The beginning of this thread was just the most bonkers things I have ever read.

@PinkGinny you are deliberately being dense?

Parents who have their kids alternate Christmas arrange the Christmas they are not having their kids well in advance.

I have friends - this includes mothers - who deliberately go on holiday, including abroad, when their kids are with their other parent. My DP, due to our child's age, works apart from on Christmas Day.

This means unless it is an emergency they can't swap having the kids for those few days or week, without losing lots of money and inconveniencing other people.

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

I personally think actually the step mum needs some praise here.

Ex is being a just awful. DH is guilting the OP because is easier than dealing with mum.

And the step parent with no parental rights is the only one focusing on the kids. Crackers

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

Willful misreading of the situation. OP and her DH do not view having them as a chore, they simply already have plans based on an established contact arrangement, and are concerned those plans won't constitute the most enjoyable experience for the children.

It's incredibly disingenuous to read that as "seeing the children as a chore".

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

This is not an emergency though.

If it was an emergency situation then yes it would be right to slam the OP's husband and possibly the OP.

In this case it is the mother refusing to stick to arrangements that her children expect.

It is now down to the father to put in boundaries by saying "No" to her both verbally and in writing. If she then dumps them on his doorstep on Christmas Eve he should keep them for most of the Christmas holiday as it is clear she can't parent her own children for that time period.

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

HOW is the dad being a crappy parent Tattler?!?!?!?!!

He has done nothing wrong here at all.

Just unbelievable how biased against fathers so many of these comments are.

A mum doesn't want to spend Christmas Day with her own children because she'd rather only celebrate it the next day with her boyfriend and his child there as well, and that turns their dad into a 'crappy parent' because he hasn't immediately agreed to facilitate this for her.

These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents.
You're totally off the mark here @Tattler2 & that's not a nice comment. There exists a PRIOR arrangement that everyone was used to & which op & dh use to plan spending time with other family members. Now the ex has put op's dh in a totally untenable situation through HER selfishness. As adults we have all sorts of relationship commitments besides our children, including to elderly parents & extended family.
This is NOT about the dh being a bad parent - it's about the dh & op being put in the awful position by his selfish ex whereby no matter what they do now someone is going to be upset.
There's no need for it & the ex is being beyond selfish.

[quote RedMarauder]@PinkGinny you are deliberately being dense?

Parents who have their kids alternate Christmas arrange the Christmas they are not having their kids well in advance.

I have friends - this includes mothers - who deliberately go on holiday, including abroad, when their kids are with their other parent. My DP, due to our child's age, works apart from on Christmas Day.

This means unless it is an emergency they can't swap having the kids for those few days or week, without losing lots of money and inconveniencing other people.[/quote]
Yes exactly this.

It is difficult to arrange Christmases when there are children involved who aren't with both parents 100% of the time. Both parents usually have extended family who the children want to see and who want to see them, and then that extended family also has in-laws to manage too....

It's hard enough to arrange a Christmas when everyone is together and you're only trying to manage in-laws and 2 sets of grandparents, let alone when you've got children living between 2 homes so not all days available for a parent to take them to celebrate with family, half-siblings in the equation, step-parent's families etc etc.

It's a bloody minefield and not as easy as if people were just celebrating at home within their own family unit and just had to set out a couple of extra places at dinner.

Poor wee souls!

It is now down to the father to put in boundaries by saying "No" to her both verbally and in writing. If she then dumps them on his doorstep on Christmas Eve he should keep them for most of the Christmas holiday as it is clear she can't parent her own children for that time period.

I don't even think it needs to be this dramatic tbh - if she likes, mum is very welcome to say she wants to celebrate Christmas only once and only when her boyfriend and his child are there too, so therefore dad can have the children Christmas and also keep them for his pre-arranged Boxing Day with his own family, and she will sort out another day to celebrate with her bf and children when everyone can be together.

The issue here for me is her trying to substitute Boxing Day, which she knows her ex already has plans for with his wider family and (presuming she knows what's happening) which means that her preference is for their Christmas Day to be a bit rubbish for them and spent with people they don't know at the expense of a day with their own family.

^^ PS. All my comments are on the assumption that the ex knows that her children will need to spend Christmas with OP's family if she goes ahead with this plan.

It may be that she thinks they could spend it with their dad's family and would not go ahead with the plan once she knows it would mean going to OP's family and missing out on seeing their own grandparents etc.

But your plans with your family are not her concern tbh. She is asking their dad for a swap.

She’s asking (or is she demanding?) and he’s ok to say no to her. It’s also none of the op/her dh’s concern what plans the ex wants to make.
It’s like any other day that the children are supposed to be with mum. They could have plans and if the mum wants to swap, she doesn’t get to trample all over those plans just because those plans aren’t her concern. Christmas is no different really.

@LittleMysSister with what I experienced with a couple of mothers and with what I've learnt on here, the father needs to say "No" very clearly and even more so if there is a Court Order in place.

If the mother then decides to ignore his boundary she can't complain if the father and their teen children then don't comply with what she wants.

[quote RedMarauder]@LittleMysSister with what I experienced with a couple of mothers and with what I've learnt on here, the father needs to say "No" very clearly and even more so if there is a Court Order in place.

If the mother then decides to ignore his boundary she can't complain if the father and their teen children then don't comply with what she wants.[/quote]
Fair point, very true.

I am really lucky that apart from minor niggles here and there my DP and his ex get on well and are both reasonable people.

If my DP wanted to celebrate Christmas with me, SCs and my (theoretical) children, he would never expect his ex to change all of her plans with her family to accommodate that and he very certainly wouldn't refuse to spend Christmas Day with his children even if I/my child wasn't there too. And vice versa for his ex.

Tbh my bet would be that mum and bf are wanting to spend Christmas Day together with no kids and then celebrate all together the next day - a fine plan but not at the expense of her ex's day with his family and children.

So in DH's shoes here I'd say we'd happily have the children Christmas Day AND Boxing Day but can't switch as we already have plans both days. Then she can sort her own day with the bf and children for during the week.

Also I feel like some are ignoring how important family Christmases are to many people.

My DP's mum, for instance, looks forward so much to the years when all of her grandchildren are together for Christmas. It means even more to have my SCs there as their mum moved away with them so they don't get to see them as often and they don't get to see them on their birthdays unless it happens to fall on DP's weekend with them, etc etc.

It's not fair to expect OP's DH's family to either miss out on seeing the children or try to rejig everyone else in the family at this stage to accommodate this change.

Not to say it's not reasonable to rearrange things for next year if ex wants to get in sync with her boyfriend, but this year things are already arranged so she needs to adapt her own plans, not expect her ex to do it all.

@AutumnLeafy

Have mum and dad asked the children what they would like to do for Christmas?

I have friends - this includes mothers - who deliberately go on holiday, including abroad, when their kids are with their other parent

That’s not the case here though, is it? We’re talking swapsies Xmas Day/Boxing Day not either off/on for the full Xmas period.

@Getawaywithit It isn't the case but it may as well be. It's the same in that the other side of the family have made important plans they should not have to cancel.

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

Wow harsh. DSC are absolutely welcome on Christmas day. DH doesn't see them as an inconvenience and nor do I. But I don't see why we have to cancel our plans to see my family due to a chappy decision ex wife has made.

[quote jennythesquirrel]@AutumnLeafy

Have mum and dad asked the children what they would like to do for Christmas?[/quote]
DH is reluctant to get them involved

@Tattler2

It is a sad commentary on parenting when having your children is viewed as a chore or inconvenience by either parent. These particular children have not 1 but 2 crappy parents. Your children are not simply your children on court designated visitation days . They are the 24/7 responsibility of both parents. There are no praise worthy parents in this scenario only unfortunate children.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that he is a crappy parent. But all accounts, plans to see family were made around the pre existing Christmas arrangements to make sure they could see their grandparents, and saying no he doesn't want to juggle everything around on her whim doesn't make him bad at all. I'm sure both he and OP, who sounds extremely reasonable, seem to have said they will swap for the good of the children but reasonably don't want to change all of their plans.

DH is reluctant to get them involved

Yes their mother seems to not put their wishes first either.......

oh dear.............