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SD not wanting to stay - co-sleeping arrangements

314 replies

farme · 06/10/2021 21:04

Just looking for some advice.....

My SD (8) is refusing to stay over at ours and my DH is heartbroken. She had phases of this off & on as she says she misses her mom and likes to be with her.

I think one of the factors is that her BM lets her co-sleep with her if she wants. It isn't necessarily every night but she seems quite flexible about it to the point I think it's making SD view us as being too strict in comparison.

SD has her own room at her BMs but from what I gather she sleeps in it some nights for the full night, sometimes she falls asleep in her own bed but wanders through to her mums bed, and other nights she just decides she wants to sleep in her mums bed!!

Surely this isn't healthy for a just turned 8 year old? I think it's really affecting her development and impacting her bond with DH & I as she seems overly close with her BM. Would it be wrong of DH to bring this up with her as she is effectively babying an 8 yr old child and stopping her from becoming independent

DHs exW has never moved on and met someone new so that's why she's happy to co-sleep.

OP posts:
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SmileySandwich · 07/10/2021 19:23

It might not be every time but her missing an overnight stay is really upsetting for all, so it is a big deal. it doesn't have to be though and the more big a deal is made of it the more pressure there is on her to stay if that makes sense.

BoredZelda · 07/10/2021 19:29

is really upsetting for all

All? Who is upset?

lentilsandeggs · 07/10/2021 19:42

Not intended! Trust me - social services don’t open an investigation for that one thing. But they definitely didn’t see it as a positive either.

lentilsandeggs · 07/10/2021 19:43

@lentilsandeggs

Not intended! Trust me - social services don’t open an investigation for that one thing. But they definitely didn’t see it as a positive either.
Sorry that was in reply to @yikersvipers
Bigeggsinapackoften · 07/10/2021 19:44

Social services would definitely not see it as a negative that an 8 year old is still co sleeping.

To insinuate otherwise is a nonsense. An 8 year old still cosleeping is very much within normal parameters.

lentilsandeggs · 07/10/2021 19:50

@Bigeggsinapackoften

Social services would definitely not see it as a negative that an 8 year old is still co sleeping.

To insinuate otherwise is a nonsense. An 8 year old still cosleeping is very much within normal parameters.

All being well - of course not. But if it’s at the detriment of the child feeling comfortable in both homes…
lentilsandeggs · 07/10/2021 19:51

And I’m not insinuating. I’m simply relaying my experience from my DSD’s situation.

BelladiMamma · 07/10/2021 20:01

@farme

The reason for my post is that she missed an overnight stay at the weekend and I was worried about her wanting to come tonight.

It might not be every time but her missing an overnight stay is really upsetting for all, so it is a big deal.

when I initially posted I was convinced co-sleeping was the root cause (as that's what my DH was saying SDD had said). I was sure it was rare so rather than feedback on that I was looking for advice on how best for DH to raise it with her mum.

I'm now realising it's more complicated than that so I do appreciate all the replies. Even the criticism

The best piece of advice I received when trying to persuade children of the benefits of the access arrangements my ex and I were trying to put in place was to back off and let the DC figure out their own pace. Don't sweat it, just let them relax and feel ok about things. Let her be the guide to how things should pan out for overnights. This might be just a blip, as others have said, due to the pandemic. It might become an ongoing thing that she's not happy overnight. The less pressure she's under, the happier she'll be and she and her Dad can learn to trust each other around this issue and have fun together. It does sound like your partner had a fairly strict upbringing and he might just be repeating that without thinking about the different circumstances and his DD's different personality. But then again I was brought up by hippies and it's not everyone's style Smile
Pebbledashery · 07/10/2021 20:22

The crux of this situation is she's attached to her primary carer, like 100 % of children are, whether that's mother or father. You cannot blame her not wanting to stay overnight due to her being "overly close" with her mum. Co sleeping under teenage ages isn't an alien thing at all. She's naturally closer to her mother and gets comfort from that. Throughout all but one of your posts you appear to come across as contemptuous and somewhat envious of the mother being closer to her daughter than you or your DH are. If you care about her then don't force her to spend overnights with you if it's so distressing. Go back to basics, days out, days at your house, build up to overnight again.. It's all about her pace. I understand that contact is court ordered and the mother is doing what she needs to do. But you will irrevocably damage this little girl if you carry on, she will have a negative association to your house and your father. Stop blaming her mother and dictating what she shouldn't do, take a step back and go back to basics. It's simple.

optimistic40 · 07/10/2021 21:15

My daughter gets like this sometimes about staying with her dad. She has only rarely stayed in my bed. I think they hate going to and fro all the time, and sometimes just want to be in their "home", feeling comfortable. It's horrible, and hard to know how to handle it. My daughter is 11 this year and I imagine that in the next couple of years it is going to be much harder to make her want to go to her dad's.

2pinkginsplease · 07/10/2021 21:49

Thisnidnth

SmileySandwich · 07/10/2021 22:15

@BoredZelda

is really upsetting for all

All? Who is upset?

Exactly. Who is upset? Is the child upset? In which case yes the parents need to try and work something out that means she is not upset.
sassbott · 08/10/2021 08:05

Op. There’s a lot going on here. Not just with regards this child and her sleeping, but your feelings/ views on the wider situation. My tuppence worth?

You need to step back from this situation and detach. This is a child who at times (for whatever reason) is finding coming for contact deeply distressing. The thought of a mother strapping her child into a car seat whilst this upset to allow contact has me heartbroken as an FYI. I cannot even contemplate my exh (or me) doing that to any of our children. It sounds pretty horrific. And this Is for the parents to resolve. Not you.

If my ExH happily took out kids under these circumstances, I would think he was a complete waste of space. And I hope he would feel the exact same if I did it to him. I would be working with the co-parent/ childs school/ counsellor to understand what was needed to make this transition easier for this child.

Part of which would be looking at the sleeping arrangements. My partner has younger children than I do. They have their own bedrooms at both their mums/ their dads but still (naturally) will come into their mums beds/ co-sleep. Now, do I want to co-sleep with his children? Not a chance in hell. Do I want to be woken at 4am by one of them sneaking into bed and then kicking for the rest of the morning. Not a chance in hell. But do I understand just how much this helps the children? Of course I do. Do I respect that it helps them to bond with their dad, my partner. Of course I do. And things like this are a huge part of why I decided to not cohabit with him and step back massively during his contact time. His children and him need that time and space to connect, including co-sleeping/ cuddles if needed. I would never judge him/ his exwife or the children for any of this. Or seek to say the answer is the exwife should stop xyz.

The answer here is that the father needs to change his approach. He needs to create a home/ environment where this transition is easier. And co- sleeping could be a huge part of that. Some parents in these situations pop a mattress on the floor of the child’s room. As a compromise. And to allow the partner to sleep in their bed Undisturbed / not be kicked out of the adult bed. The partner in turn needs to be wholly supportive and respect that the child needs this time with their parent.

The sentence that also really worries me? We’re all so upset when contact hasn’t gone ahead. Seriously? Why are you upset? Think about that quite gebuinely. Why? My partner missed some contact during covid (understandably) and he was gutted (also understandably). I couldn’t care less (in the nicest possible way) as it was the right thing for the situation but equally, they’re not my kids. I care about them, I want them to thrive, but my life doesn’t change if I see them/ don’t see them. How many would say that’s uncaring but listen, it’s not.

In so many of these situations, and clearly in yours, emotions / transitions are already tough. If I was your partners ex and I had to send my child for contact the way she has had to, I would find it deeply traumatising. Because it is. For both the child and the mother. You piling in your emotions of being ‘so upset’ on top of this is actually deeply unhelpful. The last thing this situation needs is more emotion. What it needs is the grown ups to take a big step back, not make this about them and ask themselves ‘what does this child need.’

My advice? Do that. Take a big step back and encourage your partner to allow some form of co-sleeping with his child. She needs support, not judgement.

Oh and don’t even think about telling the mum what she needs to do. I would tell you where to go if you thought you had the right to tell me how to parent my child.

sassbott · 08/10/2021 08:17

And here is the thing. I’m not judging you remotely for being the OW. The person who I judge is the person who had a child/ relationship and cheated. That background may absolutely be playing underneath this all. Until you’ve been cheated on and had your family ripped in half, because of someone else’s choices, you will never know the intense pain and betrayal that leaves someone with.

My exh cheated on me (we are friends and co-parent beautifully), but have no qualms. Finding out what I did changed me forever. Right to my core. As a result I am fiercely independent, I won’t ever trust anyone again and my children are my absolute world. So the very thing you are judging?you played a part in creating (most likely as the OW). If this woman is over invested/ unboundaried with her child, have you asked yourself why that could be?

If the child is upset? Have you asked yourself why that could be? The child could quite possibly be picking up on the mothers upset.

The loss of family is huge. When you didn’t have a choice in it, the loss stays with you forever. Maybe have a little empathy and grow up. Take responsibility for what you played a part in creating and fgs let your partner comfort his child.

SpaceshiptoMars · 08/10/2021 10:42
Angry I find it extremely distasteful that on almost every thread someone new creates, you get 'Were you the OW'. There is nothing that the OP said that convinces me that was definitely the case - regardless of the unkind speculation here.

When men 'leave for the OW', you can bet your bottom dollar that they've cheated several times before over the years. They leave when someone sufficiently classy comes their way, and at a timing to suit their own damned convenience.

Angry

RedMarauder · 08/10/2021 10:49

@SpaceshiptoMars

Angry I find it extremely distasteful that on almost every thread someone new creates, you get 'Were you the OW'. There is nothing that the OP said that convinces me that was definitely the case - regardless of the unkind speculation here.

When men 'leave for the OW', you can bet your bottom dollar that they've cheated several times before over the years. They leave when someone sufficiently classy comes their way, and at a timing to suit their own damned convenience.

Angry

I agree.

The problem in this thread is how the parents are parenting.

The fact that contact is Court Ordered and the child is still upset about contact says a lot about both parents.

OP follow what sassbott said and step back.

Bigeggsinapackoften · 08/10/2021 10:54

Do you really mean an OW is “classy”?! @SpaceshiptoMars

TableFlowerss · 08/10/2021 11:05

Normally I very much agree with your thinking. But I’m this case I’m not sure.
My DSD’s cosleeping with her mum was also causing a problem with her feeling settled at her dad’s.
For many reasons my partner reported his ex to social services. From the point she realised there was to be an investigation there was no more cosleeping.
Persisting with this when a child has two homes does not seem to be in the interests of the child. I think mum should find a gentle way to end it

I think you’re getting a hard time on here OP, but it’s because you’re the OW.

I can imagine SS would advise against it, not for child protection reason of course because it’s not uncommon or unnaturally, but it could be seen as an obstacle in the way of her relationship with her dad.

Mams not doing anything wrong but I can see how it could cause problems. Parents should try to get on and make it easy for their child to have a close relationship with both parents. I absolutely don’t think all parents, absolutely including mothers, put their child’s best interests at heart. I hate it when parents, use their child as a pawn to get back at the other one.

Having a close relationship with both parents is the most important thing. Both parents should be pulling together to try to facilitate this to happen.

Tattler2 · 08/10/2021 11:07

@SpaceshiphtoMars
I don't think that there is much of a connection with willingness to cheat and being classy.

People leave relationships for all sorts of reasons. I think that people cheat for only one reason. Given that marriage and relationships are not some form of slavery or imprisonment, one can freely leave a relationship at anytime.

There really is little reason to cheat on someone when the freedom to leave in an open and honorable way is always there. The partner cannot force anyone to remain in a relationship.

I think some may ask the OW question as a way of understanding or explaining a child's aversion to a particular person or relationship.

I suspect that the timing of an exit from a relationship has little to do with finding a classy partner and more to do with finding the courage or willingness to act in your own particular self interest regardless of the impact on others.

AlexaShutUp · 08/10/2021 11:16

Great post from @sassbott.

Timeforwinterclothes · 08/10/2021 11:34

I understand OP's point of view as I have personal experience of the same situation. The co-sleeping and refusal to spent a night at the NRP 's home is an issue. In my case it is the tip of the iceberg with the child being the sole focus in the life of the mum. The child has no social life or friends as mum is enough. It's not healthy long term and I expect your concern is for the emotional future of your SDC. Does your SDD have friends, hobbies and go to school?

SnowWhitesSM · 08/10/2021 11:48

My dss (8) mum fosters an unhealthy dependent attachment on herself with dss. It's different then having a normal close relationship with your dc.

My dss won't be left in a room alone. He asks dh to stand near the bathroom when he goes to the loo. His dm definitely creates a dependency on herself with him that prevents him feeling safe and secure. He isn't able to go to sleepovers at friends, won't join clubs in case he can't see either parent at any time. It's actually sad to see. Dh works with him on this and he does have a bedtime and sleeps in his own bed at ours. His dm doesn't like this but frankly she doesn't get to control what goes on in our house. She manipulates dss with the created dependency. Again it's different than a normal attachment and has created a lot of worries for dss and stress. He isn't a confident, happy child but he's getting a lot better.

SpaceshiptoMars · 08/10/2021 12:05

@Bigeggsinapackoften

Do you really mean an OW is “classy”?! *@SpaceshiptoMars*
Do you think that's what I said? The ex could have had secret side trips with dozens of OWs while enjoying all the comforts of home and the excellent mothering his wife provides for his children. None of these precursor OWs have tempted him to leave his comfy nest, because they don't actually compare well with his wife. But eventually one comes along that is 'in a different league'. More like his wife, but with some different advantages. Then he might leave.
farme · 08/10/2021 12:07

@Timeforwinterclothes

I understand OP's point of view as I have personal experience of the same situation. The co-sleeping and refusal to spent a night at the NRP 's home is an issue. In my case it is the tip of the iceberg with the child being the sole focus in the life of the mum. The child has no social life or friends as mum is enough. It's not healthy long term and I expect your concern is for the emotional future of your SDC. Does your SDD have friends, hobbies and go to school?
SDD is very sociable, loves school, has lots of friends etc. Shes always out playing and on play dates without either mum or dad. There was a problem pre-covid with her taekwando class but apparently that's because mum dropped her off and dad picked her up and it seemed to be too much of a change for her
OP posts:
BananaPB · 08/10/2021 12:08

Well done for listening OP.

Sassbott's reply is correct imho.
Neither parent can dictate what happens at the other's house. They are both doing their best and wouldn't like to be dictated to either. Unless it's super serious, best for each to stay in their lanes.
The more rigid your husband is, the more he risks upsetting his dd. It sounds like she is doing through an anxious and worried phase and would be more likely to stay if Dad was more flexible with sleep. Mum is correct that her job is to make sd available for contact. She can't make sd stop worrying and dad needs to step up. This is the sort of stuff that is supposed proper parenting - worrying about them, talking, being patient etc
The advice to detach is also fair. It sounds like you get along great with your sd but you should stick to the good bits and let SD parents worry about sleep and contact issues.

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