SD not wanting to stay - co-sleeping arrangements

[farme]

Just looking for some advice.....

My SD (8) is refusing to stay over at ours and my DH is heartbroken. She had phases of this off & on as she says she misses her mom and likes to be with her.

I think one of the factors is that her BM lets her co-sleep with her if she wants. It isn't necessarily every night but she seems quite flexible about it to the point I think it's making SD view us as being too strict in comparison.

SD has her own room at her BMs but from what I gather she sleeps in it some nights for the full night, sometimes she falls asleep in her own bed but wanders through to her mums bed, and other nights she just decides she wants to sleep in her mums bed!!

Surely this isn't healthy for a just turned 8 year old? I think it's really affecting her development and impacting her bond with DH & I as she seems overly close with her BM. Would it be wrong of DH to bring this up with her as she is effectively babying an 8 yr old child and stopping her from becoming independent

DHs exW has never moved on and met someone new so that's why she's happy to co-sleep.

Call me an old hippy but I used to climb into bed with my (separated) parents & their new partners til I was ... about 19.

My kids do the same. Chilled Sunday mornings with dogs and humans hanging out, chatting, bickering over who gets up to make the tea. Taking calls from other members of the family and passing the phone round. Watching something silly together.

Bring a bit of joy in your lives and pretend to be Yoko and John. You might be surprised how much you enjoy it.

@farme

It's is court ordered.

Her mum does encourage it and has taken her out in tears before, strapped her into the car seat etc so she has forced it as much as possible. Anytime SD hasn't stayed it's because SD has been so upset that DH has said she could stay with her mum. This has only happened 5 times, all other times he has forced her to go.

He feels torn as at 8, it seems wrong to physically force her into his car but what else can he do? Her mum says she just needs to "make her available and encourage her to go"

We have had this with my SD7 too OP. She was very young when my partner and his ex split, so her mum is really her comfort blanket and they are very close, she has never lived with DP in her living memory so it probably feels big for her. Given the choice, 9/10 times she would choose to stay home with her mum and just video call DP and SS while they are here.

Luckily for DP, her mum believes it's important for both children to see and spend time with their dad so she does a lot of encouraging and chatting to SD about how much fun she'll have with DP while she's here, tells her she has plans over the weekend so SD can't stay home with her etc etc.

There are usually a few tears when SD has to say goodbye to her mum on PU but as soon as they drive away she is fine, it's almost like it's just a routine she's gotten into now. She has some wobbles sometimes when she's tired, saying she misses mummy at bedtime and stuff, but as a whole she is fine.

There was one time when DP ended up having to leave her with her mum because she was upset, but regretted it afterwards as really she is too little to decide and due to distance it meant that she didn't see DP for a whole month (aside from a quick hello when he dropped SS back at their halfway meeting point).

It sounds like everyone is doing what they can in your situation too, but I sympathise as it's very hard to deal with. You don't want the child to be upset but equally it's so important she spends this time with her dad, otherwise their relationship will start to deteriorate and she will want to come even less, so it's key to try and get over that upset at the separation from mum point as usually after that it's alright.

OP, I think a lot of posters have been very unfair and quite mean to you.

We had similar but not quite as extreme experience with my DSD. She didn't want to come and stay with us. Her Mum had moved a two-hour drive away so days were not an option.

We did a lot of what is suggested here. We really focused on DH's bond with DSD and doing exciting and fun things in the time with her. Not always expensive things. We started movie marathons with Jurassic Park and told her we'd watch the next one when she came to stay next so she had something to look forward to (note - speak to her Mum first and request that she doesn't download the movies at DSD request and keep this as something special for Dad's house). We then did a shark movie marathon. It worked and it was no longer a fight to spend time with her but, she would always ask what we were doing before committing to come.

What we found later though, was that DSD would only come if we we're going somewhere or had something completely based around her planned. And if what we planned didn't excite her enough, she would say "nah".

Ultimately, her bond with her Dad hasn't actually improved and she is spending time with him for what she gets out of it. It hurts him incredibly.

But, there is nothing you (or anyone else) can do.

I would suggest he writes a letter to her telling how things are and how he feels. Something he holds on to and only gives to her when she's an adult, if she were to question their relationship. This gives adult DSD an insight into what's happening on the other side so she will see more than just Mum's perspective and her own perspective.
He could do this regularly. Nothing about her Mum. Just about her and him and how much he misses her.

@aSofaNearYou, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, I guess. I see contempt, but you can call it judgemental if you prefer.

Personally, it doesn't seem to me that the OP is in any position to judge the child's mother when a) she has no children of her own and b) she seems totally unwilling to consider her own DH's role in this. It's easy to blame it all on the mother, I'm sure, but it doesn't address the real problem.

[quote AlexaShutUp]@aSofaNearYou, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, I guess. I see contempt, but you can call it judgemental if you prefer.

Personally, it doesn't seem to me that the OP is in any position to judge the child's mother when a) she has no children of her own and b) she seems totally unwilling to consider her own DH's role in this. It's easy to blame it all on the mother, I'm sure, but it doesn't address the real problem.[/quote]
The total unwillingness you're talking about is fabricated, she hasn't actually responded to the criticisms of her DP yet, you have no idea if she is willing to consider them. Just another bit of hyperbole that isn't helping and is way over the top.

You can think she isn't in a position to judge if you like, that's a fair comment but a) that's much less extreme than accusing her of dripping with contempt b) she did say that it was primarily her DP who thought this way - and he is a parent, and c) nothing she is saying is an uncommon opinion for actual parents, either. Lots of parents think the same as her about cosleeping and tackling separation anxiety. Nobody, including all the "real parents" on here, are in a position to say that is flat out not part of the problem.

@Tattler2

Perhaps, rather than analyzing what happens at the mom's house, your partner might focus on what he needs to do to make his daughter feel more comfortable and secure in his home.

Obviously, if the child does at times sleep alone at her mom's home, she is capable and willing to sleep alone at times. The question then becomes why is she not comfortable enough in dad's home to do that?

The mom's job is to make the child available to dad and to not impede that contact. It sounds as though the mom is doing all of that.

If dad ,on his own, is not capable of facilitating a comfortable and secure relationship with his daughter that is a situation that " he" proactively needs to resolve. The resolution is not asking the mom to change her behavior, instead he needs to modify his behavior.

The child may just not feel a comfortable or welcoming vibe in his home. Even young children have personal likes and dislikes and a good sense of when and where they feel safe and wanted.

It is not up to an 8 year old to be an adequate child, but it is the responsibility of the father to be an effective parent.

completely agree

@wineisneedednow

OP, I think a lot of posters have been very unfair and quite mean to you.

We had similar but not quite as extreme experience with my DSD. She didn't want to come and stay with us. Her Mum had moved a two-hour drive away so days were not an option.

We did a lot of what is suggested here. We really focused on DH's bond with DSD and doing exciting and fun things in the time with her. Not always expensive things. We started movie marathons with Jurassic Park and told her we'd watch the next one when she came to stay next so she had something to look forward to (note - speak to her Mum first and request that she doesn't download the movies at DSD request and keep this as something special for Dad's house). We then did a shark movie marathon. It worked and it was no longer a fight to spend time with her but, she would always ask what we were doing before committing to come.

What we found later though, was that DSD would only come if we we're going somewhere or had something completely based around her planned. And if what we planned didn't excite her enough, she would say "nah".

Ultimately, her bond with her Dad hasn't actually improved and she is spending time with him for what she gets out of it. It hurts him incredibly.

But, there is nothing you (or anyone else) can do.

I would suggest he writes a letter to her telling how things are and how he feels. Something he holds on to and only gives to her when she's an adult, if she were to question their relationship. This gives adult DSD an insight into what's happening on the other side so she will see more than just Mum's perspective and her own perspective.
He could do this regularly. Nothing about her Mum. Just about her and him and how much he misses her.

Stop the press: child only wants to leave the comforts of their own home if there is something interesting for them to do. Do you not have children of your own? Do you not know much about children? What is this 'their dad is hurt by this' nonsense. Is he not a grown man? Really, the self-importance beggars belief.

@BelladiMamma That sounds heavenly and – in the non-creepiest way possible – makes me want to climb into your bed.

I hope DD never grows out of coming into my bed. Certainly when I visit my parents on a weekend, I’ll wander down when my dad gets up to make the tea, and crawl in next to my mum. And I’m 42

@SpeedRunParent. Couldn't agree more. Why would a child want to leave the comfortable and familiarity of their own home if it's just going to be boring and strange in their other parent's house? Yes, children shouldn't expect to be entertained the whole time at home, but if a child is only staying EOW, it's not really their "home" that they are comfortable pottering around in. Different if it's 50/50 parenting and both parents are doing the boring routine stuff.

@SpeedRunParent

Yes, I do have children of my own.
I know as much about children as any other parent.

In terms of "how he feels", what I'm really suggesting is that he puts all of his feelings aside when it comes to DD and does what she needs. He can write down how he feels and if, in the future, a long way down the line, DD questions the time spent with her Dad (how little, or what happened), he can give her his perspective on it and show her that he genuinely wanted a relationship with her and show her how he felt about her.

Grown adults get hurt with rejection. That's a fact.

It's not self-absorbed or anything else to write down your feelings.

@farme

If SDD had a nightmare and occasionally went through to her mums room this is one thing. Sounds like she routinely just gets into her mums bed at bedtime and sleeps there all night. She's not scared or anxious, she hits likes it.

She doesn't routinely do it here so misses that comfort rather than missing her mum (if they were in separate beds in the mums house)

So the solution is not to take that comfort away from her when she is at her Mums. My son cosleeps and will be allowed to carry on cosleeping until the day he needs and requires it. YOU need to find a way around this and not DD or her Mum. They are perfectly happy and content.

Just to add to the voices saying jumping in with mum (and dad) for a cuddle and sleep really isn't unusual. Being physically available for your children makes them feel stronger and more confident, not the other way around.
I know many single mothers who made the choice to remain single whilst their children were young. This isn't about not moving on, its about putting yourself and your child before a man.
Your DH needs to work on why his DD doesn't want to stay. Kids aren't stupid and if there is an undercurrent over a lap over in the relationship and a bit of a judgement of her mother from your side she'll pick up on it.

This is turning into a bit of looking glass thread.

• her father's home is not her home
• Disney parenting is good
• a father should feel nothing when his child rejects him

I know many single mothers who made the choice to remain single whilst their children were young. This isn't about not moving on, its about putting yourself and your child before a man.

Yes, I agree. I am still married to dd's dad, but if we ever split, I would have chosen to remain single rather than put her in the position of having to live with a step parent. I know many women who have chosen to do likewise.

Of course, some step parents are magnificent and I am not judging anyone who gets into a new relationship as a single parent. Some people find it harder to be on their own than others. However, I do know that I would personally not want to go down that path.

@Youseethethingis

This is turning into a bit of looking glass thread.

• her father's home is not her home
• Disney parenting is good
• a father should feel nothing when his child rejects him

I haven't seen anyone say that.

A father is allowed to feel whatever he feels if his child rejects him. However, he would be wise to put the child's feelings before his own and to take responsibility for the situation rather than seeking to blame the mother.

@Youseethethingis

This is turning into a bit of looking glass thread.

• her father's home is not her home
• Disney parenting is good
• a father should feel nothing when his child rejects him

Always amazes me how people twist things to suit their own agenda on MN.

It's unrealistic to expect a child who only visits twice a month to feel as comfortable in your home as they do with their primary carer. So, yes I think the EOW parent does need to make a bit more effort.

Sorry I've been so quiet. I've been reading all the posts and reflecting a lot and sharing with DH so we will be taking it all on board. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

To answer some of the questions and to provide more background:

She stays with us 2 nights a week and we have 3 days together. We're always doing fun activities/days out and she also has one on one time with her dad

Some weeks she's really happy to come. Her getting upset about coming or being "forced" to come isn't every time (maybe once a month or 2).

The weeks she's not happy to leave her mums, it's only an initial 10-15 min thing then she's happy as anything. Hence why he encourages it so strongly. He knows she'll have a great time when she's with us and the reason he pushes it is that he's worried their relationship will be impacted if he "gives up". He also thinks if he backs down one week she'll think she can do the same every week and stay with her mum all the time. Longer term they'd have virtually no relationship if this happened. He really wants to be part of her life and show her how much he loves her and wants time with her. Surely saying "fine, don't come" would give off an "I'm not interested in seeing you or I don't love you" type vibe.

The fact she's fine once she's left her mums will surely be having a positive impact on their relationship and the more she does it, the more she'll accept and enjoy it?

Her dad helps her at bedtime, lies & reads a book with her etc. She's not ignored or left on her own.

He encourages her to talk to him if she's upset/scared/sad. He would never leave her to go to bed upset or crying for her mum. It's an initial 10 mins of upset then forgotten.

When DH & I discuss it we compare it to if she was upset going into school. We wouldn't give in and say "fine, if you don't want to go, don't go". You'd force a child to go to school and perservere until it became the norm. Many kids are initially upset at going into school/nursery and are perfectly happy once the parents are away. This is very similar to that

Is also s asked DH what SDD says about the sleeping arrangements that make him think that's the root cause and she says things like:

When I sleep in mummy's bed I get used to her being with me so when she's not with me it makes me miss her even more.

She also actually said herself that she thinks sleeping in her mums bed makes it harder for it to stay at ours. Then when he suggested that she slept in her own bed at her mums she said she didn't want to

Surely saying "fine, don't come" would give off an "I'm not interested in seeing you or I don't love you" type vibe.

Is that what he sees as the only alternative to forcing her into the car?

At 8 I'd have a big girls concert with her. But completely leave out co-sleeping. You can't change what she does with her mum.

Explain that dh misses her when she's with her mum and really looks forward to their special days.

Plan what will happen next pickup day in great detail. She may not be great at transitions. Eg I'll pick you up at xoclock, op will be in the car too, we'll go to the park for half an hour then go home to watch a film, what film would you like.
Give her choices, make her part of the plan. Text her the day before to remind her of the fun bits.

Ask her what will make her bedroom cosier, does she need a new duvet, the same one as at home maybe? If she brings up co-sleeping say that it's lovely her and her mum do that, but here we have our own rooms. But if you need me shout or come get me etc

We wouldn't give in and say "fine, if you don't want to go, don't go". You'd force a child to go to school and perservere until it became the norm.

Wow really? That’s what you’d do? You wouldn’t try and find out what the issue was? See if there was anything that would make it easier for them to go to school? Speak to the teacher and see what they suggest? You’d just continue to force a crying child to leave you until they learned that their upset would never be responded to?

Always amazes me how people twist things to suit their own agenda on MN
Agreed.

@MrsRobbieHart

Surely saying "fine, don't come" would give off an "I'm not interested in seeing you or I don't love you" type vibe.

Is that what he sees as the only alternative to forcing her into the car?

No of course he doesn't speak to her in that way, i was meaning that's the impression she would get.

He checks a few times that it's definitely what she wants, asks he for suggestions about what would make her happy to come, plans fun days out, tells her how much he loves her, how much he was looking forward to seeing her, that he'll miss her etc

What about dropping the overnights for a while, and just picking her up early morning and dropping her off in time for bed?