SD not wanting to stay - co-sleeping arrangements

[farme]

Just looking for some advice.....

My SD (8) is refusing to stay over at ours and my DH is heartbroken. She had phases of this off & on as she says she misses her mom and likes to be with her.

I think one of the factors is that her BM lets her co-sleep with her if she wants. It isn't necessarily every night but she seems quite flexible about it to the point I think it's making SD view us as being too strict in comparison.

SD has her own room at her BMs but from what I gather she sleeps in it some nights for the full night, sometimes she falls asleep in her own bed but wanders through to her mums bed, and other nights she just decides she wants to sleep in her mums bed!!

Surely this isn't healthy for a just turned 8 year old? I think it's really affecting her development and impacting her bond with DH & I as she seems overly close with her BM. Would it be wrong of DH to bring this up with her as she is effectively babying an 8 yr old child and stopping her from becoming independent

DHs exW has never moved on and met someone new so that's why she's happy to co-sleep.

I co-slept with my mum for many years after my parents divorced when I was 9. Went to my dads EOW and one night a week and slept on my own there. No issues. The co-sleeping is not why she doesn't want to stay over at yours. Your DH may want to figure out the real reason.

Oh, and my mum has been divorced now for 35 years and has remained single. She's had the odd boyfriend but never had anyone sleepover while I was in the house. Doesn't mean she didn't move on!

I also think it's quite easy to say go with the flow and be less rigid about contact when you're not the one being negatively impacted and not getting to see your child - I bet most mums on here wouldn't 'go with the flow' if their child was crying and not wanting to return home to them from their dad's.

@farme

Sorry I've been so quiet. I've been reading all the posts and reflecting a lot and sharing with DH so we will be taking it all on board. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

To answer some of the questions and to provide more background:

She stays with us 2 nights a week and we have 3 days together. We're always doing fun activities/days out and she also has one on one time with her dad

Some weeks she's really happy to come. Her getting upset about coming or being "forced" to come isn't every time (maybe once a month or 2).

The weeks she's not happy to leave her mums, it's only an initial 10-15 min thing then she's happy as anything. Hence why he encourages it so strongly. He knows she'll have a great time when she's with us and the reason he pushes it is that he's worried their relationship will be impacted if he "gives up". He also thinks if he backs down one week she'll think she can do the same every week and stay with her mum all the time. Longer term they'd have virtually no relationship if this happened. He really wants to be part of her life and show her how much he loves her and wants time with her. Surely saying "fine, don't come" would give off an "I'm not interested in seeing you or I don't love you" type vibe.

The fact she's fine once she's left her mums will surely be having a positive impact on their relationship and the more she does it, the more she'll accept and enjoy it?

Her dad helps her at bedtime, lies & reads a book with her etc. She's not ignored or left on her own.

He encourages her to talk to him if she's upset/scared/sad. He would never leave her to go to bed upset or crying for her mum. It's an initial 10 mins of upset then forgotten.

When DH & I discuss it we compare it to if she was upset going into school. We wouldn't give in and say "fine, if you don't want to go, don't go". You'd force a child to go to school and perservere until it became the norm. Many kids are initially upset at going into school/nursery and are perfectly happy once the parents are away. This is very similar to that

It’s very different problem and not really comparable to not going to school.

I refused to stay at my dads from a similar age for various reasons. One the room wasn’t really mine, I hated showering/bathing outside of home the only other place I would have a bath was at my grandparents. Plus I missed my mum. I missed her not because we had an unnatural bond or were too close but because having had the other parent leave meant I was sure she might too (later on there was also the feeling of being disloyal, as in the only person who was truly there for me why would I chose the person who broke up my family).

It’s worth thinking about her your DSD feels over how you and your DH feel it is unfair. Spend more time in the day time with her, bed time can be the time of anxieties.

@aSofaNearYpu

I hear what you are saying but it's not the same thing. The part-time home must be a place that the child is considered as having the right to feel 'at home' but, from the perspective of the child, the place they spend the majority of the time is going to feel most like home because they have all their bits and pieces there. Its not mean to insult a step-parent, it's just a fact.

If a child only stays with another parent at a weekend, in most cases of course they will class their main abode as home.

OP it is your DHs job to make his DD feel comfortable enough to stay without crying.

And yes, you have lied to your SD, your DH obviously wont want his DD to know he was with you, in any way, while he was with her mum, as she will dislike him very much for betraying someone she loves so much.

It is absolutely non of your business what your DHs daughter does when she is with her mum. It is also your DH responsibility to think of ways of resolving this, she is their DD after all and their responsibility.

[quote SpeedRunParent]@aSofaNearYpu

I hear what you are saying but it's not the same thing. The part-time home must be a place that the child is considered as having the right to feel 'at home' but, from the perspective of the child, the place they spend the majority of the time is going to feel most like home because they have all their bits and pieces there. Its not mean to insult a step-parent, it's just a fact. [/quote]
No but...I think Sofa agrees with you!

She's just pointing out that usually when this topic comes up, the SP is seen as out of order for recognising the exact facts that you've just listed - that the child doesn't have all their bits and pieces there, they don't consider it their home in the same way they do their mum's. Yet here when it's SD who doesn't feel as if dad's is her home (because she mostly lives with her mum) it's OK.

It's not the facts that are an insult for the SP, it's the very real insults that actually come our way (on here) for even pointing out that these things are real and that it doesn't work to just act as if your house is your SCs home if they are there for less than 50%. Actually the dynamic is completely different, for everyone involved.

The most obvious solution to me was that she should sleep in her own bed at both houses so it was less of an issue.

It’s telling that the most obvious solution that came to you involves two other people changing something that they are happy with so you can have things the way you want while you change absolutely nothing.

Surely the most obvious solution when a child is missing sleeping in a bed with their parent is just to let them sleep in a bed with their parent. It’s your insistence that she’s unwelcome in your bedroom that’s the real problem here.

How do DSD and her mum feel about her co sleeping with her step mother?
DHs ex expressly forbade it in a most stern lecture (totally unnecessary, I wasn't allowing DSD into my bed full stop).

I just think everybody - including OP - needs to stop focusing on the sleeping. This little girl also cried and didn't want to leave her mum at the thought of not being picked up by her from school! It's not about the sleeping arrangements, it doesn't even sound like she makes a fuss at bedtime when at her dad's. She just doesn't want to leave her mum, full stop.

This SD has a strong attachment to her mum because she's been her primary carer her whole life and she doesn't remember ever having lived with her dad. This is exactly the same for my SD. It's not a problem to be stamped out, it's a real thing which just needs to be managed. There are ways to help and be sensitive to it without agreeing that SD no longer needs to stay over, or she can sleep in her dad's bed, or she doesn't have to come to his when she doesn't want to.

It really sounds like the DH here is doing lots to help SD looks forward to and enjoy time with him, and it will get easier as she grows up and is more secure about being apart from her mum for a while.

*No but...I think Sofa agrees with you!

She's just pointing out that usually when this topic comes up, the SP is seen as out of order for recognising the exact facts that you've just listed - that the child doesn't have all their bits and pieces there, they don't consider it their home in the same way they do their mum's. Yet here when it's SD who doesn't feel as if dad's is her home (because she mostly lives with her mum) it's OK.

It's not the facts that are an insult for the SP, it's the very real insults that actually come our way (on here) for even pointing out that these things are real and that it doesn't work to just act as if your house is your SCs home if they are there for less than 50%. Actually the dynamic is completely different, for everyone involved.*

Thankyou, and yes this is exactly what I think, very eloquently put!

There is an awful lot of searching for offence on this thread. The bottom line is it's fine to cosleep and also fine to say that is part of an overall picture that is affecting how SD feels about being away from her mum. There's no need to find acknowledging that so shocking.

But best not to raise it with mum, this is just one of those things you have to accept with children living primarily in one household. Her feelings will likely change over time and she will be more comfortable being, and sleeping, without her mum.

@MrsRobbieHart

The most obvious solution to me was that she should sleep in her own bed at both houses so it was less of an issue.

Not that she could sleep with her dad at his house? Why isn’t that an option. Several people have suggested it and you’ve ignored them. Why?

If the little girl has barely lived with Dad her whole life, why on earth would she want to share his bed? Let alone the bed he shares with OP. She'd probably react with horror to the mere suggestion.

Bonkers.

@Youseethethingis

How do DSD and her mum feel about her co sleeping with her step mother? DHs ex expressly forbade it in a most stern lecture (totally unnecessary, I wasn't allowing DSD into my bed full stop).

We've never had that discussion with her but DH doesn't want her coming into our bed. He's always felt quite strongly about this and co-sleeping etc (obviously she's allowed in our bedroom during the day but it's off limits overnight). He wasn't allowed in his parents room as a child (they even had a lock on the door) and he thinks it's part of teaching her about boundaries.

Personally I think he might be being stubborn about it as he will see it as him bending to suit his exW parenting style which he struggles with in general as thinks she's far too soft and treats SDD much younger than she is

This SD has a strong attachment to her mum because she's been her primary carer her whole life and she doesn't remember ever having lived with her dad. This is exactly the same for my SD. It's not a problem to be stamped out, it's a real thing which just needs to be managed. There are ways to help and be sensitive to it without agreeing that SD no longer needs to stay over, or she can sleep in her dad's bed, or she doesn't have to come to his when she doesn't want to.

This is a really good way to think of it. Thank you.

As much as i feel ive been getting a hard time on this thread, it's useful to see others points of view. I initially didn't explain the situation very well but it's really helped me to think of it from SD point of view

@AnneLovesGilbert

Nothing weird, wrong, unhealthy or babying about an 8 year old cosleeping. Your husband doesn’t have to agree but it’s not bad parenting and her mum is unlikely to change anything because he has a word.

It’s perfectly possible his ex has moved on even if she doesn’t want a new relationship.

What does her mum do when DSD doesn’t want to stay over? Is it a private agreement or court ordered?

What’s he doing to maintain contact in a way she’s comfy with? Days together? Plenty of phone calls and FaceTime?

Normally I very much agree with your thinking. But I’m this case I’m not sure. My DSD’s cosleeping with her mum was also causing a problem with her feeling settled at her dad’s. For many reasons my partner reported his ex to social services. From the point she realised there was to be an investigation there was no more cosleeping. Persisting with this when a child has two homes does not seem to be in the interests of the child. I think mum should find a gentle way to end it.

@farme I don't know whether this has already been said, but do you think the unwillingness to leave her mum is to do with the world opening up again after lockdown? I know a child in exactly that position only much more extreme. She developed really bad separation anxiety when she was away from her mum. Home with mum, just the two of them, was her safe place and now the world has opened again it's difficult to even get her to school.

@farme

Firstly, just because her mum doesn't have a partner it doesn't mean she hasn't moved on. I split up with my ex months ago and I very much prefer not having a partner at the moment. I have moved on fine!

In her case it has been 6 years!!! She's only introduce me one partner she was dating but he never stayed over when she had her DD

Goodness, in that case so many women haven’t moved on after divorce or widowhood because they’re not with a man. You’ll be calling us all spinsters next. Some women move on by not having a relationship, with ver living together with someone or ever having sex with someone else again. Shock!

Co-sleeping is not a child protection issue .

If the little girl has barely lived with Dad her whole life, why on earth would she want to share his bed? Let alone the bed he shares with OP. She'd probably react with horror to the mere suggestion.

Bonkers.

She spends 3 days and 2 nights a week with him. He’s her dad. Not a stranger.

We've never had that discussion with her but DH doesn't want her coming into our bed. He's always felt quite strongly about this and co-sleeping etc (obviously she's allowed in our bedroom during the day but it's off limits overnight). He wasn't allowed in his parents room as a child (they even had a lock on the door) and he thinks it's part of teaching her about boundaries.

Personally I think he might be being stubborn about it as he will see it as him bending to suit his exW parenting style which he struggles with in general as thinks she's far too soft and treats SDD much younger than she is

It’s clear why your DSD doesn’t feel as comfortable with him as she does with her mother. He needs to take a Serious look at his attitude. Or he’ll never have any sort of bond with her.

Yes, he is being stubborn is he's still fighting a battle he won't win. Regardless of whether his ex responded to a need or created it, the chicken is now here and DSD needs the comfort of co sleeping.
There are other ways you feel she's being babied, I'm sure, so could you get him to focus on those smaller things and help build her confidence?

The most obvious solution to YOU is that she should sleep in her own bed at home and not sleep with her mum at all.

In other words you think that parenting changes should be made by her mum to make things easier for you and your DH

I hope you can see how ridiculous you are being?

Your initial post suggested that this was a major recurring problem, however you have since stated that she will come with you, is sometimes upset initially then quickly gets over it.

I'm not really sure what advice you are seeking from this thread as things seem to be ok generally? Or did you just want validation of your opinion that her mum is doing it all wrong?

I’m sure they would prefer one home for convenience but not at the detriment of not seeing the other parent as frequently….

Have you forgotten who these arrangements are supposed to be for? If the child feels that having two homes is more of a problem to them than seeing less of one parent, that should be their choice.

Say it's okay to stay with her mum so she sees that as an option and wants to do that more & more often?

Yes. Exactly that. Because she is a child and her wishes shouldn’t be ignore because it puts her father’s nose out of joint. The best way to protect his relationship with her is to make sure she isn’t being forced into something she doesn’t want.

Or did you just want validation of your opinion that her mum is doing it all wrong?

This is the crux of it, I think. The OP has already admitted that she had assumed that co-sleeping would be rare and that it would be frowned upon. I guess the thread hasn't panned out in quite the way that she expected.

"Normally I very much agree with your thinking. But I’m this case I’m not sure.
My DSD’s cosleeping with her mum was also causing a problem with her feeling settled at her dad’s.
For many reasons my partner reported his ex to social services. From the point she realised there was to be an investigation there was no more cosleeping.
Persisting with this when a child has two homes does not seem to be in the interests of the child. I think mum should find a gentle way to end it."

There's an ugly insinuation here that co-sleeping with a divorced parent is an matter for social services. I know you say "for various reasons", but still.

The reason for my post is that she missed an overnight stay at the weekend and I was worried about her wanting to come tonight.

It might not be every time but her missing an overnight stay is really upsetting for all, so it is a big deal.

when I initially posted I was convinced co-sleeping was the root cause (as that's what my DH was saying SDD had said). I was sure it was rare so rather than feedback on that I was looking for advice on how best for DH to raise it with her mum.

I'm now realising it's more complicated than that so I do appreciate all the replies. Even the criticism