The reverse and another perspective

[SandyY2K]

I saw this on another forum and a lot of the content sounded so familiar in terms of what SMs say.

Are you quick to assume your stepkid’s mum is High-Conflict, just because she challenges an opinion or decision of your husband’s?

Do you read every email/text between her and your husband? Are you helping him craft every response? Are you responding on his behalf?

Have you put rules in place about how often, or by what means, your husband is allowed to communicate with her?

Do you think you’re a better parent than her? More importantly, do you tell people that?

Do you badmouth her in public? To colleagues? In-laws? In front of the kids?

Is everything her fault? Do you think that your life would be “perfect” if she wasn’t in the picture?

Do you demand to attend all exchanges, school functions, or sporting events if she is going to be there? Even if you know it could cause extreme conflict? But, just because you want your presence known?

Tips to become a Low-Conflict Stepmom

In all decision making, consider her perspective. Your take on a situation is not always right, and sometimes, more heads are better than one.A difference of opinion in parenting does not mean that she is “high-conflict.

You just don't seem to be able to accept that some SMs do cause trouble. i fully accept some ExWs can cause trouble too.

It's interesting how polarised this discussion has become, though I guess not surprising given how one sided the OP is.

I don't think anybody here is trying to deny anything, whether that be about ex wives or about step mum's. People are defending their OWN experiences and their own right to cast whatever judgment they have about the other person. Nobody is making generalisations, so why are we going in circles saying "oh you think your DHs ex genuinely deserves this criticism, you must think no SMs can ever be wrong then", and vice versa?

As an aside though, as a step parent I do find myself very frequently told on here (including by a few people on this thread) that I am simply refusing to believe a SP is in the wrong due to my personal allegiance. Every time my response is the same - no, I just genuinely disagree with you that this one is in the wrong. I know it can be easy to assume someone with a different perspective than you is purely speaking from bias, but unless their response isn't addressing the details of the case at hand, I think people really just need to realise that people share what they genuinely think of each individual case. If that includes taking one side a lot more than the other, well there have likely been a lot of threads with similar themes, and that posters opinions are consistent across all of them. I don't agree with and defend "all step parents", I agree with and defend the one's I actually agree with. The same is likely true of everybody.

Ummm, interesting! I do try to be low conflict but it just doesn't work. I refuse to shout in the street I've ignored her shouting at me and last time her and DP were arguing I went out and told them both how much it still upsets the adult kids. I'm very much team kids. Two days after that row she was very ill with covid and I helped with shopping ect. None of my good deeds makes any difference. I'm a very different mother to her and sometimes that's paid great dividends. My DSS was dying and she left him with us to go on a bender. It literally saved his life. The only time I've seen a human as sick as my DSS was my beloved aunt dying of cancer. I'll never understand how she left him that day. I supported them all in the aftermath (a bit like the UN!) and continue to support my lovely SS to this day. Her life is far more interesting than mine. Lately people have tried to tell me things about her but I've shut them down as I don't want to know. I refuse to have her bad mouthed when my DP or his friends start I will always say show respect to the mother of your children. This shuts everyone up! Although I wouldn't want her lifestyle I do feel piqued at the amount of parenting I have had to do. My DSS are all grown up now but DP wants me to start doing big Sunday lunches for them all (again) as the ex won't. I could get all I'm so much better because I make Sunday lunch. Truth is I'd rather be down the pub as well! Writing this has made me realise I'm so done with it all. Youngest is 20!! They all still live with her and It's not ideal as she's still chucking them out for nights and they can't go back the next day until she gives the all clear. Personally I'd like to see them get their own places.

I refuse to have her bad mouthed when my DP or his friends start I will always say show respect to the mother of your children. This shuts everyone up!

Wow. Not to pry but why would you even do this? Given the circumstances it feels perfectly normal and healthy for your DP to have the opportunity to vent about the woman who treats his kids this way. She seriously left her son dying?

It was 4 years ago and at the time I was not at all happy with her. However we needed to work together as a team as he's got an ongoing condition. It was very difficult. I also felt she didn't understand the seriousness of it and we had to step in to provide the support he needed. DP does vent to me but I don't like anything said publicly about her choices. By him or others. As they are very much that, her choices and no one else's business.

My SC mum is a complete dick but I stay out of their arguments and discussions unless it affects me and my children.

I also never say a bad word about her in front of her children - totally the opposite, I engage with them, ask about mummy, what they did at the weekend with her, did you do anything nice for mummy's birthday etc etc

She does not, however, extend the same courtesy and will happily badmouth me and my DP to the kids.

Some ex-wives are total twunts, as I imagine some SM's are too.

@Spandang

To be honest I think that kind of step parenting, when there is another co parent heavily involved, is just asking for conflict. I would hate someone to be like that with my son. Kind, welcoming, aunt type relationship absolutely but not insisting he is their child too and trying to muscle in on everything like these posters do. I said as such on a post once and the overwhelming response was that they didn't care, it was the exes problem if she felt that way.

As a step parent, this really resonated with me.

I’ve tried to see it from Mum’s point of view, but…she’s called me a slut, threatened to destroy my car, she’s told DS not to be in a room alone with me, she’s been taken to court by social services, she takes cocaine, she gets in fights, she manipulates the kids into keeping secrets from us, she slags us off to them…the list is literally endless. And it’s all evidenced.

I stopped trying to see anything from her point of view a long time ago, because I can’t rationally understand how anyone would want to put their kids in a room with violence.

What I would say is, is it ever going to be possible for a biological parent to see it from a step parents point of view?

Because to me:

We have a lot of responsibility and very little power.

We tread a fine line between ‘aunt’ and ‘mum’ and so the kids (and us) quite often don’t know where they stand.

It’s okay for us to homeschool but it’s not okay for us to talk to their teacher about their education.

We get the brunt end of crap from our partners about the ex, but no right to reply or control the dialogue.

And on that front we have to just watch as someone we love experiences regular stress, but we’re not allowed to fix it.

Picking up a child from school to help my partner is labelled ‘playing mummy and daddy’ but then it’s expected that I will look after the kids so they can both go to parents evening.

I am damned if I buy something for the kids, but I’m damned because I work full time and earn and therefore I should be contributing to the kids.

Every, single, day step parents walk a tightrope between keeping themselves sane, giving their step kids enough, supporting DP, but not overstepping. Every day I want to tell my step kids exactly what their mother is like, because they think the sun shines out of her arse, and every day I bite it down. Meanwhile she says whatever the hell she fancies and most of it is made up.

Frankly I don’t have any headspace left to try and see the point of view of someone who thinks they’re number one mum but in reality they come up short every single day.

I’d rather give her less of my thinking time and actually spend it on something that could make a difference.

I agree with all of this and you put it so much more elegantly than I could.

The cause of issues is multifactorial. Some are the EXW, some are the SM, some are the EXH - contributing factors are many.

For some of us Formidable and I - there was 1 factor. For others like my EX it is his second EX and for others it is a useless DF. i am not saying all problems are one person - some are, many are not. However, the belief that the SM is rarely the cause is simply not true, likewise it is not always the EXs fault either - somewhere in the middle. We can all be victims of someone elses actions SMs are not the only ones.

Everyone walks a tightrope in these types of relationship - for me it was not knowing on any day if their DF would turn up to see them, if he did would he take them for an ON, if he took them for an ON would they stay the full time or be brought back early, what state would they be in when they got back- mentally and physically.
Did they get a bed to sleep in or were they in the laundry room again!
Were they safe - car space being an issue - always mine that either got left behind or they sat without their car seats whilst hers got theirs.
I could not move because EX had moved 90 mins away from us and where I wanted to go would have been 60 mins in the wrong direction so that got banned.
I am damned if I work because I neglect my DCS - bad parent
I had a childminder - abject neglect and bad parenting
I don't need CMS because i earn enough
I should pay them for the weekends they have them as they are helping me out - I worked everyone of the weekends they had them
Deal with the tears when DCS realise Dad has gone on luxury holiday with EX and her DCS but not taken them
Been asked to pay for the DCS to go on their holidays otherwise they get left behind
No clue what shite is going to appear on social media about you
Know when the police are going to appear at your doorstep
stopped at immigration whenever you travel not just in the UK but overseas aswell
Be called in and suspended from your job for yet another false anonymous allegation
To plan a life when you do not know what day of the week a demand for access may come, monies, a rant down the phone that you were seen at x and this was their space - keep away
Book a holiday having given 9 months notice to be told he wants them that time aswell and the DCS have been told about the holiday - so you look like a C**t when you say no.
My DCS coming home aged 6 and 8 asking me why SM thought I was a fucking bitch and why did I hurt their Dad and steal his monies!!
Know that my DCS were being treated like scum when they were in their DFs house and he not defend them.

I had no control over the utter garbage that came out of her mouth - to our mutual friends, grandparents and relatives. I had no control over the vindictive actions that were perpetrated upon my DCS and I.

To agree to something with their DF and then watch that fall apart because she has found out and either the monies or the time get taken and I end up either funding it or sorting it out for the DCS,

Thus why I appreciate their new SM for the calmness and mature way she handles the situation with my DCS and i. I am also there for her as EX2 does to her what she still does to me but to a lesser extent because she has a new focus.

I do not want her in my life and definitely do not want to waste precious time thinking about her next antic effect on our lives. She may be a great Mum to her own DCS but she is an absolute waste of space as a mature responsible adult who just wants to get on and live a good life.

We all have it bad in different ways

Nobody has said it's rarely the sms fault.......?

You seem to think we all think all sms as innocent and all ex wives are evil. You admit in your case the cause was one woman, but when anyone says it was all the ex wife it becomes multifactorial.

Literally not one person has said only step mum's are victims.

I am fully aware that her side is that I am the mad, bitter ex wife etc etc blah blah blah. Anything to take the focus off the fact she was shagging my husband when hers was killed in an RTA. A death that has made her very wealthy
And there goes my point!

In such forums as MN, we oy ever get one side of every story, inevitably. It is also inevitable that in most cases, unless the post shows evident madness, their description of the situation is being taken as the accurate version of it.

I wouldn't be one bit surprise that if 6iu had a SM posting here and their OH's ex posting elsewhere their account of their situation, both would get sympathy, told that the other is unreasonable and the cause of all the conflict.

The only way strangers could form an opinion closer to the actual situation would be to read both accounts. I also expect that in most, both sides would have very much a point with what they claim.

I got the chance to experience this once in real life. I met a guy at my running club. He start to open up, talk about his walking away from his wife listing all the -what appeared very valid- reasons. Talk about the kids, how she was messing them up with lies, affecting his contact with them. It all sounded very genuine and so did feel sorry for him.

Then I met the mum if one of my dd's friend and became closer. As we were both separated mum with kids of similar ages, we started sharing our experiences, frustrations, dilemmas. I felt so sorry for her as her husband cheated on her and left for the ow and then was making demands a out contact expecting it all to be under his terms.

The two were so divergeant stories that it took a couple of months for the penny to drop that they were each other exes! What really came about is that nothing they both said was wrong or even lies, what made their account so divergeant was all the things they omitted to share that had a direct impact on the situation.

I think SM inherit the crap of the primary parents relationship. Then we have to some how navigate it. It's not much fun. I also am someone else's crazy ex story. I can categorically say there is not 2 sides to that one. As my DD's SM was once my best friend I expected better of her. She watched me be made homeless with 2 kids, participated in some atrocious PA. Amongst other fun things. Their need to demonise me was so huge that it has destroyed any relationship with the DD's. It's all quite sad really. My DP's ex just wanted to be free again and I get that. I don't think she's an intrinsically bad person. I wouldn't have wanted to see the consequences of her actions without me there to pick up the pieces. Maybe I've enabled her? All I know is not one size fits all.

Where have I said if it is the EXW then it is multifactorial - nowhere.

The multifactorial bit is in the whole blended relationship and different factors cause problems in different measures, at different times and in different ways. At no point have I said it is one persons fault and that is always the SM.

I am an SM to 3, 2 fab relationship 1 meh. Their mother and I have a sensible adult relationship - we have at times both caused an issue for their DF and the DCS - both unintentional and both resolved with a sensible discussion and apology on both sides. i am fully aware of who was responsible!

You admit in your case the cause was one woman - yes a step mother -- can you not write those words. If you want the other factor in that - then it is a weak willed DF who did not stand up for his DCS and should have shut her behaviour down and refusd to believe what his DCS were saying and even tried to excuse it being caught on video ( I love ipads)

@vivainsomnia

I am fully aware that her side is that I am the mad, bitter ex wife etc etc blah blah blah. Anything to take the focus off the fact she was shagging my husband when hers was killed in an RTA. A death that has made her very wealthy And there goes my point!

In such forums as MN, we oy ever get one side of every story, inevitably. It is also inevitable that in most cases, unless the post shows evident madness, their description of the situation is being taken as the accurate version of it.

I wouldn't be one bit surprise that if 6iu had a SM posting here and their OH's ex posting elsewhere their account of their situation, both would get sympathy, told that the other is unreasonable and the cause of all the conflict.

The only way strangers could form an opinion closer to the actual situation would be to read both accounts. I also expect that in most, both sides would have very much a point with what they claim.

I got the chance to experience this once in real life. I met a guy at my running club. He start to open up, talk about his walking away from his wife listing all the -what appeared very valid- reasons. Talk about the kids, how she was messing them up with lies, affecting his contact with them. It all sounded very genuine and so did feel sorry for him.

Then I met the mum if one of my dd's friend and became closer. As we were both separated mum with kids of similar ages, we started sharing our experiences, frustrations, dilemmas. I felt so sorry for her as her husband cheated on her and left for the ow and then was making demands a out contact expecting it all to be under his terms.

The two were so divergeant stories that it took a couple of months for the penny to drop that they were each other exes! What really came about is that nothing they both said was wrong or even lies, what made their account so divergeant was all the things they omitted to share that had a direct impact on the situation.

@vivainsomnia I have recently, by a quirk of fate, met 3 women. 2 were former clients of my ex-h and OW and one was a former employee. They all said it became very clear very quickly who the problem was. That her frequent rants about me and my DS were pure projection. It was a relief frankly. I've never had the means to defend myself and it gave me some closure. I have no enemies, I am a decent human being a and a good mum. OW would have you believe I was Satan. My ex-h is as bad as her because even though he admitted she talked utter tripe, he would not defend me or our child. I am so thankful these people now know the truth. I can imagine your experience was an eye opener too.

I'm so sick of us taking all this shit on. Wether we are SM or Ex's. I think we are looking at a form of misogyny in attitudes towards us. A lot of of us are just trying our best. Dealing with crap on a daily basis. I fondly remember the Xmas my DP's ex was off on a bender and I nearly had to have her mother at mine. Luckily I didn't have to have Granny at mine as family stepped in. It was a close call though. Now I just wish I'd been down the pub with her....

Maybe in the end it means that good and less than good people fall into all categories.Maybe it is not your status or standing that determines your behavior but instead it is the character that you bring to the table.

I think I'd like to add that despite my own horrific experiences as an ex-wife with my husbands OW, I do actually have an absolutely wonderful stepmum myself. She came along a few years after my mum died and while there were a few teething problems, she's a very welcome addition to our family. There are some lovely stepmums out there and I'd like to acknowledge that.

You admit in your case the cause was one woman - yes a step mother -- can you not write those words

Of course I can. What exactly is your issue?

I would like to point out that I am also an Ex, not just a SM.
This weekend was my DS’s 7th birthday and yesterday I spent the afternoon at my Ex’s house, with all of his friends and my Ex IL’s because they threw DS a party.
My mum came alone, she is still friends with my ExMIL, as am I.

I’m fully aware of the challenges coparenting with an ex can bring but we seem to navigate it very well and maintain a friendly relationship for the sake of our son.

I honestly wish we had this with SDs mum but she has no desire to be pleasant to us or even say hello in passing. I saw her in the supermarket recently with my SDs who both came over to greet me and she literally turned away and walked off ignoring me.
I have no idea why as I smiled and said hello.

I have come to the conclusion that I think she’s quite jealous of me… I don’t mean because of DP, I don’t think there are residual feelings there, but I mean of my life.
She’s made remarks to the children about my life, how much I get to socialise (??), my job, my family, my mother’s home, our wedding plans. If DP and I do anything together like a date night or weekend away then she implies that money should have been spent on her children. The same applies for any Christmas or birthday gifts either myself or my children receive, regardless of what was spent on SDs.

It all reeks of envy to be honest.

I actually feel quite sorry for her. She’s very bitter about the outcome of her life choices and comes across as angry and unhappy.

But I can’t forgive her for the way she’s behaved towards me or DP for simply being happy.

My mum came along*
Not alone

@Tattler2

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict. In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict.

I absolutely agree with this.

Things are going along fine, then in comes a new partner who:

Doesn't like the amount of contact they have.

Wants to dictate what time the ex can call

Wants to decide what method they communicate by

Wants to change the schedule

Isn't happy if they talk about anything other than the kids

Of course... this doesn't always happen , but I see several complaints from SMs about these very things and where she wants them to have a businesslike relationship.

I honesty believe if relations were so harmonious those two people wouldn’t have separated in the first place. What a ridiculous statement.

I disagree with this. Even if the relationship didn't work out, two people can coparent well and be harmonious.

I've seen harmonious coparent relationships, however these are where I find the SP feels a bit insecure/jealous because of how well their spouse gets along with the Ex.

I think they often break down when one parent is jealous of the new partner. Or unhappy that the other parent has moved on.

The problem is if you want to have a meaningful adult relationship with a person with the slightest amount of self respect, you need to make room for that person in your life. That might mean a change to the status quo with the ex. That might go down like a cup of cold sick.
In our case, as soon as DHs ex knew about me, she upped her demands. It was as if she was testing him. He would not cancel on me at the last minute or hand over blank cheques for new wardrobes etc. etc. She didn't like that.
Contact and maintenance have stayed the same, we have always worked around that. I have never asked or expected it to change on my account. I would not have hung around if there was no room for me and our relationship in his life so that's a moot point. However, he doesn't have capacity to jump to attention like a single man might anymore.
All in the past now, as we have proven that her earlier upset was needless so we all moved past it.
It was definitely the idea of me rather than anything I ever said or did that caused the problems though.

I don’t agree that separated parents co-parent in harmony, in every (or even most) instances, prior to the introduction of a new partner.

A good amount do, but I also think that things like last minute changes that were not an issue before a new partner comes along, suddenly become a problem.

Where dad would jump at the chance for extra time with the kids, with a new partner....there comes resentment and annoyance that the kids are coming over...which creates issues. Suddenly..flexible ExH starts pushing back on these things and the only change is a new partner.

Family lawyers would be pretty skint if that was the case.

@Spandang
And yet, that influence of another person, dictates I can’t move more than 3 miles away,

Is it the influence of the Ex, or the existence of SC? Because if not for the stepkids, what the Ex does or doesn't do would not be an issue.

Where dad would jump at the chance for extra time with the kids, with a new partner....there comes resentment and annoyance that the kids are coming over...which creates issues. Suddenly..flexible ExH starts pushing back on these things and the only change is a new partner.

The way you spin this is hilarious. When you're in a relationship you have to balance your existing and new commitments. Its not fucking your children off for your new gf, it's just living like a normal person. As long as the contact arrangement isn't just dropped, I don't see the issue.

However, he doesn't have capacity to jump to attention like a single man might anymore

I think some of this is the issue with DP’s exgf. He has never reneged on the official contact time, but his ex is most perturbed when he can’t accommodate changes to contact due to prior commitments. It’s usually due to work but she assumes it’s because of me for some reason

Where dad would jump at the chance for extra time with the kids, with a new partner....there comes resentment and annoyance that the kids are coming over...which creates issues. Suddenly..flexible ExH starts pushing back on these things and the only change is a new partner

In our case it’s certainly not resentment from me, however DP and I also need to time alone sometimes to grow our relationship and create a stable home life for all the children involved.
It’s rare we are completely child free, but it is precious needed downtime for us as a couple and for me as mother to not have to parent any children sometimes.