The reverse and another perspective

[SandyY2K]

I saw this on another forum and a lot of the content sounded so familiar in terms of what SMs say.

Are you quick to assume your stepkid’s mum is High-Conflict, just because she challenges an opinion or decision of your husband’s?

Do you read every email/text between her and your husband? Are you helping him craft every response? Are you responding on his behalf?

Have you put rules in place about how often, or by what means, your husband is allowed to communicate with her?

Do you think you’re a better parent than her? More importantly, do you tell people that?

Do you badmouth her in public? To colleagues? In-laws? In front of the kids?

Is everything her fault? Do you think that your life would be “perfect” if she wasn’t in the picture?

Do you demand to attend all exchanges, school functions, or sporting events if she is going to be there? Even if you know it could cause extreme conflict? But, just because you want your presence known?

Tips to become a Low-Conflict Stepmom

In all decision making, consider her perspective. Your take on a situation is not always right, and sometimes, more heads are better than one.A difference of opinion in parenting does not mean that she is “high-conflict.

Thanks Sandy

It's not easy to apply at at all when your life is impacted so much by the actions of someone else, but since I've been getting into mindfulness, I've learned so much about letting go of the things I can't control and to observe situations rather judge them.

I am so much happier since and it really gets easier and easier.

Christ the patriarchy can kick back with helpful guides like this cheerfully pitting women against eachother- it barely mentions the central figure- the father and doesn’t even refer to him as such, just as ‘your husband’. Surely his role as father is more pertinent.

People do post on here about good EXWs but actually having a problem with the EXH.

There is a belief that the EXW life is not impacted by decisions made in the EXH house and all impacts are on the new family. Money being the classic one on here and the EXW being expected to suck up the shortfall, lack of monies because the other house has made a decision for Dad to go part time etc.

I have had both to deal with SM from hell and now SM from heaven. Acting like sane adults and putting differences aside seems to be beyond people on this site on so many occasions - that is all sides.

Different perspectives and different values clash as in real life but in the blended family situation seem to rely on bitching, vile comments and arrogance that my way is the only way on either side.

Are you quick to assume your stepkid’s mum is High-Conflict, just because she challenges an opinion or decision of your husband’s?

Not at all. She's very nice.

Do you read every email/text between her and your husband? Are you helping him craft every response? Are you responding on his behalf?

Wouldn't dream of it.

Have you put rules in place about how often, or by what means, your husband is allowed to communicate with her?

No.

Do you think you’re a better parent than her? More importantly, do you tell people that?

I'm (sadly) not a parent. She's a good one though, as is he.

Do you badmouth her in public? To colleagues? In-laws? In front of the kids?

Hell no!

Is everything her fault? Do you think that your life would be “perfect” if she wasn’t in the picture?

My life would be poorer without my DSC. So no.

Do you demand to attend all exchanges, school functions, or sporting events if she is going to be there? Even if you know it could cause extreme conflict? But, just because you want your presence known?

No. They are grown up now but I was often invited along!

I may have been lucky. It helps that I had no part in the breakdown of their marriage. But I do think the children are the key. And if we can, we owe it to them to behave well.

So a boring, undramatic answer.

@bogoffmda
Your post provides a different but not unrealistic perspective. If you include the factors of the ex wife having mental health issues, the child being conceived as the result of a one night stand, and that is not the way that I was raised , your list would be quite complete.

I recently heard a colleague say that her partner's ex was demanding that they buy her daughter a car. I pointed out to her that in reality the ex could had no power to effect any actions on the part of the father or his partner. She could not write a check from his account nor could she legally force such an action. What my co-worker was characterizing as a demand was a loud and angry unenforceable request. It only had the power that my co-worker accorded it. Additionally, the mom knew full well that the dad was not married to the partner and as such the mom expectations had absolutely no potential impact on my co-worker's earnings and resources. The ex could make lots of noise but nothing that she did could in any way rise to the level of an effective demand.

The daughter too was asking her Dad for a car, and that to me was just a typical request from a 16 year old.

In my co-worker's place, I would have left all resolution to my partner ,and I certainly wouldn't have given any thought to " a demand " from someone who.had no actual/legal ability to demand anything of me.

I am fairly certain that the mother was not manipulating the teenager daughter to want or request the car as the daughter attends a high school where most of the teenagers have their own cars of various sorts.
If my co-worker were to be posting a letter I don't doubt that the ex would be described as high conflict, mentality ill, manipulative, and having weaponized her child, when in reality she is quite possibly just a weary woman who alone cannot provide a vehicle for her teenager and is asking the child' s father to contribute to the purchase. The child Is not an entitled child, but one who wants something that she sees so many of her peers receiving in the school environment in which both her mom and dad chose to place her.

@bogoffmda

People do post on here about good EXWs but actually having a problem with the EXH.

There is a belief that the EXW life is not impacted by decisions made in the EXH house and all impacts are on the new family. Money being the classic one on here and the EXW being expected to suck up the shortfall, lack of monies because the other house has made a decision for Dad to go part time etc.

I have had both to deal with SM from hell and now SM from heaven. Acting like sane adults and putting differences aside seems to be beyond people on this site on so many occasions - that is all sides.

Different perspectives and different values clash as in real life but in the blended family situation seem to rely on bitching, vile comments and arrogance that my way is the only way on either side.

The thing is on the whole, changes do affect the household more than the ex. Of course they do. I'm not sure what you're on about the ex bring redirected to suck up the shortfall because that is rarely ever mentioned on this board. And let me just point out, when extra children come along the CMS reduction is tiny. It's quite literally pointless.

Dad going part time is incredibly rare but you're making it sound like a regular thing. It's not. And obviously there would be other factors in there.

I've acted like a sane adult the whole way through but it's true what they say about the pigeon and the chess board.

You're making out again that it can never been just the exw fault. It really can, and for the many of us on here who have struggled with that and tried our bloody best with it, it's insulting.

If my co-worker were to be posting a letter I don't doubt that the ex would be described as high conflict, mentality ill, manipulative, and having weaponized her child, when in reality she is quite possibly just a weary woman who alone cannot provide a vehicle for her teenager and is asking the child' s father to contribute to the purchase

@Tattler2 it's very arrogant of you to think you know a situation better than someone who is actually living it.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro
I am only forming my opinion based upon the information supplied by my co-worker. She has complained about this situation on a frequent basis for the past 4 months. However, you are right in that I only know as much as she has chosen to share. But I do know with absolutely certainty that the ex has no power to enforce a demand against my co-worker and no legal power to force the father to contribute to the purchase of a car.

[quote Tattler2]@Getyourarseofffthequattro
I am only forming my opinion based upon the information supplied by my co-worker. She has complained about this situation on a frequent basis for the past 4 months. However, you are right in that I only know as much as she has chosen to share. But I do know with absolutely certainty that the ex has no power to enforce a demand against my co-worker and no legal power to force the father to contribute to the purchase of a car.[/quote]
Yes, of course you are right to think she has no power to enforce it. I think you're ignoring the constant badgering, the pressure, what might happen if you don't submit. Having dealt with someone who regularly does this, from my pov I completely understand because in our case dp saying no meant the ex would tell dss he didn't love him enough / he was spending all his money on me or our son / that he contributed nothing.

We all know they can't enforce it. It's the having to put up with constant demands and the consequences of saying no that is the issue.

@Tattler2

Q. How do you tell the difference between demand and a request?
A. Say No and see what happens.

So - if you say no, and contact is immediately withdrawn, you can be sure it was not a request.

@Tattler2 A demand doesn't have to be enforceable or effective to be a demand. A loud and angry unenforceable request is generally a demand.

@SpaceshiptoMars
Withdrawal of legally mandated contact is a violation of law and should be treated as any other violation of law. A teenager who refuses to come is exercising à right ; a minor child not being permitted to come is a violation.

It has little to do with request or demand when there is a CO in place it is either adherence to the CO or a violation. If the parent of a minor child is a victim of a pay to play strategy that is contrary to the CO , there is a legal remedy. Many people choose not to avail themselves to the remedy because of cost and time involved but few important things in life come without some opportunity cost.

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict. In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict. The addition of the new partner usually adds a level of conflict and discord. In situations where a new party does not impact time spent with existing children or resources available to and for existing children, there really is little reason for conflict. Few people object to changes in situations that do not have an impact on them. When the time, engagement, and resources available to children remain the same, there really is no need for conflict.

Withdrawal of legally mandated contact is a violation of law and should be treated as any other violation of law. A teenager who refuses to come is exercising à right ; a minor child not being permitted to come is a violation

And yet it happens all the time and there is little you can do about it.

It has little to do with request or demand when there is a CO in place it is either adherence to the CO or a violation. If the parent of a minor child is a victim of a pay to play strategy that is contrary to the CO , there is a legal remedy.

Yes going back to court, again and again and nothing changes.

Many people choose not to avail themselves to the remedy because of cost and time involved but few important things in life come without some opportunity cost.

I mean that's just patronising.

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict

Oh so it's the step mum's fault then?

In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict.

This is actually true for us, however this implies the new person to the situation is the problem

The addition of the new partner usually adds a level of conflict and discord. In situations where a new party does not impact time spent with existing children or resources available to and for existing children, there really is little reason for conflict

Yeah you'd think so. My sheer existance was enough to upset the ex.

New people object to changes in situations that do not have an impact on them. When the time, engagement, and resources available to children remain the same, there really is no need for conflict

Again you're blaming the step parent. Why don't you think the person who is actually being the arsehole in the situation bares any responsibility?!

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict. In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict. The addition of the new partner usually adds a level of conflict and discord. In situations where a new party does not impact time spent with existing children or resources available to and for existing children, there really is little reason for conflict. Few people object to changes in situations that do not have an impact on them. When the time, engagement, and resources available to children remain the same, there really is no need for conflict.

I mean all this ignores the emotional impact of a new partner coming on the scene - often the ex can be upset purely at the notion of either a new partner being in their exes life, or a new step parent being involved in their child's. It also ignores the fact that people can often be upset that they THINK a new partner could impact the above things, not that it actually does.

Your line of logic could also be applied to the other side. The new partner has no reason to be bothered by the set up between her partner and his ex unless it negatively affects her. But often it will. They can keep their finances completely seperate, which helps, but they can still be impacted by the choices he makes leaving little time or money for his time with his partner.

There's a lot of room all around for negative impact when someone is trying to juggle those commitments. The only time when the partner could happily step back and not be involved at all as you say is when their partner is either fortunate enough to have the necessary resources to meet everybody's needs without anyone being negatively impacted, or makes this his constant focus and works hard to make it so. Anything else, and somebody is bound to be compromising, and putting up with things that negatively impact them.

I mean all this ignores the emotional impact of a new partner coming on the scene - often the ex can be upset purely at the notion of either a new partner being in their exes life, or a new step parent being involved in their child's. It also ignores the fact that people can often be upset that they THINK a new partner could impact the above things, not that it actually does
This is was very true for us. I was very cautious when I started to date now DH, knowing he had a young child so there was potential for alot of aggro, and was set at ease that he and his ex seemed to be conducting themselves like grown ups, no dramas, he saw his child several times a week without ever letting it come between us, and we had no intention of me meeting DSD until a good chunk of time had passed.
The day and hour his ex found out he had a girlfriend (about 9 months in) she Kicked Off. All of a sudden everything was a problem, contact was being cancelled, she could have started WW3 in an empty room.
Just at the very idea of me. She didn't know me. Neither did her child.

@aSofaNearYou
Any time you become involved in a relationship the person with whom you are becoming involved brings prior obligations, commitments, memories, etc. It need not always be a prior marriage or children. It can be student loans, property purchases, financial obligations due to investments, business expenses,etc.
These obligations all impact what the partner is capable of bringing to the table. If the new partner cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that 65 or 70% of the new partner's time and financial resources are all ready encumbered through prior obligations then what they may have to decide if they are willing to live within the parameters of the partner's remaining resources. I think many people expectations are to think that they will live and budget bases upon the partner's earnings rather than the 30 or 40 % of unencumbered income that actually remains.

I never expected my husband to contribute penny one towards my children's direct or indirect ( housing cost, utility usage,etc.) cost. Those are my expenses. What I do expect is that he will continue to contribute our agreed up share of our (his and my) living expenses. That is the only financial obligation that we have each to the other. We do many different things for each other electively and we are each very generous with each others kids. However, these are elective choices and not obligations. I would never do anything for him that compromised my children's quality of life; nor would I ever expect or accept his doing anything for me or my children that in any way compromised the quality of life that he wished to provide for his children.

I have never experienced his ex discussing money with me or having any financial expectations of me ; nor has my children's father ever referenced my husband in relation to expenses for our children.

@Youseethethingis

I mean all this ignores the emotional impact of a new partner coming on the scene - often the ex can be upset purely at the notion of either a new partner being in their exes life, or a new step parent being involved in their child's. It also ignores the fact that people can often be upset that they THINK a new partner could impact the above things, not that it actually does This is was very true for us. I was very cautious when I started to date now DH, knowing he had a young child so there was potential for alot of aggro, and was set at ease that he and his ex seemed to be conducting themselves like grown ups, no dramas, he saw his child several times a week without ever letting it come between us, and we had no intention of me meeting DSD until a good chunk of time had passed. The day and hour his ex found out he had a girlfriend (about 9 months in) she Kicked Off. All of a sudden everything was a problem, contact was being cancelled, she could have started WW3 in an empty room. Just at the very idea of me. She didn't know me. Neither did her child.

Same. Exactly the same.

@aSofaNearYou
I do recognize that my feelings might be different if my experiences were different. However, another woman's children spend 50% of their time in my household, but at no point during that time do I ever feel the need to do anything but what she and my husband want done to and with their children. When the kids are with me,they know that they are to be polite and mindful of what I say. The kids are all just kids and they pretty much act like kids. They can be very pleasant the vast majority of the time and they can each have moments at times. It is all within the realm of typical kid behavior.

All of the kids are accustomed to moving between homes and have pretty much adjusted , and as adults we all try to remember that this kind of shifting is nothing that any of us experiencecd as kids or envisioned for our children. These children are all having a life experience that none of the adults involved ever had to experience.

In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict.

This is true of our situation but only because the ex was under the mistaken illusion that while OH was single she had a chance to get him back. She scared off two previous women he tried to date

Getoff your arse :
The thing is on the whole, changes do affect the household more than the ex. Of course they do. I'm not sure what you're on about the ex bring redirected to suck up the shortfall because that is rarely ever mentioned on this board. And let me just point out, when extra children come along the CMS reduction is tiny. It's quite literally pointless.

Your arrogance, ignorance and bitteness on this is shining through. For example : Ex moves in with lady who ahs 3 DCS and then they have their own - CMS drops for 4 DCS not just his one - that is a big drop. The previous children did not suddenly get cheaper and the DM has to suck that up - not difficult.

Everyone has a part to play but the belief on this forum that everyone else is to blame and the poor SM bears the brunt is just not true. Think you could apportion"blame" to everyone equally. There are godawful EXWs, EXHs and SMs and DCS in the dynamic - SMs are not completely innnocent.

In my second SM dealings -she has helped turn around a co parenting bombsite into a good place for all concerned - it can and dos work with good communications and a few deep breaths by everyone

Your arrogance, ignorance and bitteness on this is shining through. For example : Ex moves in with lady who ahs 3 DCS and then they have their own - CMS drops for 4 DCS not just his one - that is a big drop. The previous children did not suddenly get cheaper and the DM has to suck that up - not difficult.

I'm not arrogant, ignorant or bitter, thanks.

Do you know how much it actually drops by, out of interest? I'd imagine you don't.

Equally, I can't say I've ever seen a sm post about that situation, and even if she had it wouldn't be her decision to do that. Would I condone it? No especially if they're not his children but the drop wouldn't be a "big" drop.

Everyone has a part to play but the belief on this forum that everyone else is to blame and the poor SM bears the brunt is just not true. Think you could apportion"blame" to everyone equally. There are godawful EXWs, EXHs and SMs and DCS in the dynamic - SMs are not completely innnocent

This is just utter insulting shite. When a sm is to blame I'll happily say it. So will many others. I won't blame a sm when she isn't to blame though. You shouldn't apportion blame to someone who's not to blame through some kind of bizarre fairness.

In my second SM dealings -she has helped turn around a co parenting bombsite into a good place for all concerned - it can and dos work with good communications and a few deep breaths by everyone

I'm glad for you and sorry for her. She shouldn't have to do that. Yes, next time I have to report dps ex to the police for harassment, I'll just try and talk to her and take a few deep breaths. I'm sure that'll sort it.

@Tattler2 I'm not sure quite what your point is, I said in my post that there is less cause for conflict when there is simply an arrangement that continues in place in terms of the ex and children, and the DP is still able to meet their commitments to their new partner at the same time. But often things arise that are not part of a prior arrangement, and the DP is not able to meet their commitments simultaneously. Spongebob's tale of many large, extra expenses being demanded by the ex and her partner falling behind on bills in their shared household is a prime example. When the DP has two seperate large commitments because he has children with a former partner, this kind of conflict is simply likely to arise, because he is often stretched too thin to satisfy both. The same will be true from the ex's perspective.

@aSofaNearYou
My point is that sometimes parents make explicit commitments to their children that encumber future funds. My ex for instance would hold my daughter from infancy and say to her " when my princess goes to x Ivy League College, I am going to come up for every game.".

From infancy through today he committed to my daughter, that he plans to send her to his alma mater. This is not written anywhere but on his conscience and in my daughter's memory, but none the less he entered his second marriage knowing that this is an existing prior commitment of funds. Fortunately, this is not a problem in his current marriage, but were he to have married someone who thought that his earnings and resources accured to her upon marriage ,she would likely be complaining about his entitled daughter. Some parents want to do very many things for their children and those intentions do not end with a divorce decree. Unfortunately for some, those intentions are not clearly articulated to the new partners. Maybe paying for hair appointments or the prom gown of choice may have been things that this dad always intended to provide for his daughter.. The problem becomes when he is unable to meet his expectations and then attempts to pass them on to his new partner.

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict

I honesty believe if relations were so harmonious those two people wouldn’t have separated in the first place. What a ridiculous statement.

@HogDogKetchup
People separate sometimes because interest and feelings for each other have changed, that in no way signals acrimony or the inability to make mutually agreed upon decisions about their children.

They can remain as friends and effective communicators while no longer wishing to be lovers and partners.