The reverse and another perspective

[SandyY2K]

I saw this on another forum and a lot of the content sounded so familiar in terms of what SMs say.

Are you quick to assume your stepkid’s mum is High-Conflict, just because she challenges an opinion or decision of your husband’s?

Do you read every email/text between her and your husband? Are you helping him craft every response? Are you responding on his behalf?

Have you put rules in place about how often, or by what means, your husband is allowed to communicate with her?

Do you think you’re a better parent than her? More importantly, do you tell people that?

Do you badmouth her in public? To colleagues? In-laws? In front of the kids?

Is everything her fault? Do you think that your life would be “perfect” if she wasn’t in the picture?

Do you demand to attend all exchanges, school functions, or sporting events if she is going to be there? Even if you know it could cause extreme conflict? But, just because you want your presence known?

Tips to become a Low-Conflict Stepmom

In all decision making, consider her perspective. Your take on a situation is not always right, and sometimes, more heads are better than one.A difference of opinion in parenting does not mean that she is “high-conflict.

On reflection, I also think perhaps my DP having seen how my ex and I interact with regards to coparenting has reduced his tolerance for his own ex’s nonsense.
I think prior to meeting me he had accepted her rants and demands as a fait accompli and didn’t realise there could be a healthier way to be involved with his children without running himself ragged and making himself unhappy in the process.
He isn’t perfect, but he is coming to the realisation that he doesn’t have to sacrifice his own personal happiness to appease his ex.

I think about things from her perspective a lot and try to be sensitive to how she will feel about things. I've been on the other side of someone else spending time with my DD's in a parental type role and I get how hard it can be sometimes.
Where that falls down is that she doesn't do the same in reverse to DP. She and her new partner have the sensitivity of bricks. Plus she is very unpleasant towards DP still, and is happy to put the children in the middle of it-which upsets them, which I don't like. I want to support DP, remain neutral for the children involved and also together we want to forge our own little family life in our unit, whilst respecting hers...but it's quite tricky when she doesn't also think that way I guess.

As long as the contact arrangement isn't just dropped, I don't see the issue.

Herein lies the problem. You don't see an issue. Dad, SC and BM may well see it as an issue, if this rigidness only came into play with a new partner.

It's just like co-sleeping (which I'm against) with kids. If Dad/Mum was doing this happily and suddenly, a new partner comes along and demands it has to stop...guess who the child will blame, even when the message comes from their mum or dad.

It can be something of a balancing act for the man in the middle. I remember when my brother split from his Ex. He initially used to go over and sort stuff out around the house.

Then when he got married, he said he can't be doing that anymore because it wasn't fair to his wife.

I told him to think how that would look to the kids, if he just stopped doing it immediately. They already had fears about the changes when he was getting married again, so I was trying to get him to put the kids first and think about them ...Not his Ex, not his wife...but the kids. They're the only ones who didn't ask for any of this and I knew (through) my daughter that my niece was struggling with her mum and dad not being together anymore.

The kids would associate this with his wife and they wouldn't help their relationship... which would ultimately affect him. I told him, if it was something directly for the kids...like a curtain rail in their bedroom, I advised that he should sort it out, but his Ex should deal with stiff on other parts of the house.

He listened and slowly started to fade out his help and teach my nephew how to do things, so he didn't have to.

@SandyY2K

As long as the contact arrangement isn't just dropped, I don't see the issue.

Herein lies the problem. You don't see an issue. Dad, SC and BM may well see it as an issue, if this rigidness only came into play with a new partner.

It's just like co-sleeping (which I'm against) with kids. If Dad/Mum was doing this happily and suddenly, a new partner comes along and demands it has to stop...guess who the child will blame, even when the message comes from their mum or dad.

It can be something of a balancing act for the man in the middle. I remember when my brother split from his Ex. He initially used to go over and sort stuff out around the house.

Then when he got married, he said he can't be doing that anymore because it wasn't fair to his wife.

I told him to think how that would look to the kids, if he just stopped doing it immediately. They already had fears about the changes when he was getting married again, so I was trying to get him to put the kids first and think about them ...Not his Ex, not his wife...but the kids. They're the only ones who didn't ask for any of this and I knew (through) my daughter that my niece was struggling with her mum and dad not being together anymore.

The kids would associate this with his wife and they wouldn't help their relationship... which would ultimately affect him. I told him, if it was something directly for the kids...like a curtain rail in their bedroom, I advised that he should sort it out, but his Ex should deal with stiff on other parts of the house.

He listened and slowly started to fade out his help and teach my nephew how to do things, so he didn't have to.

It wouldn't be MY choice. It would be on dad to decide wouldn't it. Your sexist view seems to think that a woman can control what a man does, and you're blaming the woman for the choices a man makes.

If a dad changes contact after meeting someone new, that is on HIM and nobody else. Do you get that?

@SandyY2K

As long as the contact arrangement isn't just dropped, I don't see the issue.

Herein lies the problem. You don't see an issue. Dad, SC and BM may well see it as an issue, if this rigidness only came into play with a new partner.

It's just like co-sleeping (which I'm against) with kids. If Dad/Mum was doing this happily and suddenly, a new partner comes along and demands it has to stop...guess who the child will blame, even when the message comes from their mum or dad.

It can be something of a balancing act for the man in the middle. I remember when my brother split from his Ex. He initially used to go over and sort stuff out around the house.

Then when he got married, he said he can't be doing that anymore because it wasn't fair to his wife.

I told him to think how that would look to the kids, if he just stopped doing it immediately. They already had fears about the changes when he was getting married again, so I was trying to get him to put the kids first and think about them ...Not his Ex, not his wife...but the kids. They're the only ones who didn't ask for any of this and I knew (through) my daughter that my niece was struggling with her mum and dad not being together anymore.

The kids would associate this with his wife and they wouldn't help their relationship... which would ultimately affect him. I told him, if it was something directly for the kids...like a curtain rail in their bedroom, I advised that he should sort it out, but his Ex should deal with stiff on other parts of the house.

He listened and slowly started to fade out his help and teach my nephew how to do things, so he didn't have to.

The thing is, it's the dad who decided he wanted to seek out a new relationship. Doing so wasn't a passive action.

Posters often try to explain the imperativeness of being able to balance different needs and commitments when you get into a relationship and have kids, and it always seems to fall on deaf ears to posters such as yourself. But it is natural that some of the things he might have done before will have to change in order for him to be in a relationship that is respectful to that other person. If he doesn't want anything to change, or has a dynamic with his ex and kids that would not be at all amenable to a new partner for whatever reason, then he has the option to stay single.

Why do you always seem to feel he should have the right to consciously seek out an additional person to add to his core family - whose needs and deal breakers he would naturally have to consider alongside the others - and just sit back and expect them to accept things that are not acceptable to them? He wanted a relationship. He should expect reasonable compromise by getting into one. If not, he could choose to abstain.

I’d like to know why this woman was incapable of sorting a curtain pole or asking for someone else, or paying someone else to help her.

Having had children with someone doesn’t compel you to be that other person’s DIY jobs. Her rooms in her house for her children are her sole responsibility.

Let’s not infantilise grown women.

Why do you always seem to feel he should have the right to consciously seek out an additional person to add to his core family - whose needs and deal breakers he would naturally have to consider alongside the others - and just sit back and expect them to accept things that are not acceptable to them? He wanted a relationship. He should expect reasonable compromise by getting into one. If not, he could choose to abstain.

Also, second time around, men seem much more street-wise. On this forum, the majority have zeroed in on women with careers and/or their own home. They then ask a vast amount from these women that was not required from the first wife - and appear able to give little in return apart from the seed for the joint child. Not only does the second wife fund the bedroom space for her own child, but often that for all of the DSCs. Given this, it is somewhat unsurprising that she should have just one or two requirements of her own.....

*I’d like to know why this woman was incapable of sorting a curtain pole or asking for someone else, or paying someone else to help her.

Having had children with someone doesn’t compel you to be that other person’s DIY jobs. Her rooms in her house for her children are her sole responsibility.

Let’s not infantilise grown women.*

Precisely!
I'd rather gouge my eyes out than have my dc witness me 'needing' their father to fix up things in my house! & I get on with my ex!
Any woman who needs to call on an ex to do some DIY needs to either learn how to do it herself or learn how to Google "local handyperson!"
Anything else (bar a genuine emergency) is just over dependancy on an ex & a new partner should be annoyed.

This thread 😱

Also, second time around, men seem much more street-wise. On this forum, the majority have zeroed in on women with careers and/or their own home. They then ask a vast amount from these women that was not required from the first wife - and appear able to give little in return.

This, with bells on. These men pick exceptionally well, the infamous Kanye song in reverse plays in my brain more than once.

Re the ex popping over to ‘help’. WTAF? Are people actually for real? Why on earth are grown women advocating for this sort of BS? Who wants an ex ‘popping’ over to do DIY? Seriously?

This forum. Seriously makes me question what I’m earth goes through peoples brains.

And @Tattler2 I don’t think you’re goady. But I do think you’re incredibly black and white and see life through your personal experiences/ journey. Life seems very straightforward/ logical and things should fit neatly into boxes.

Some of humanity does not operate that way. Plenty of parents cannot be reasonable. Through choice or their own damage coming out in unhealthy ways. That’s the reality for a lot of people in this forum.

Before I met my partners EXW I did not believe people like her existed. I didn’t. I couldn’t fathom how someone could be so blind to the damage they are causing their own children and so wrapped up in their own narrative. Since I’ve met her and seen first hand the damage she’s putting on these kids? My world has never quite been the same. And I don’t say that lightly. It’s deeply shocked me that a parent whom professes to ‘live’ for her children so eloquently to anyone who listens can simultaneously be the most damaging individual around them. It’s bewildering to me. And someone like that doesn’t fit into your clean lines and logic.

I’m a mum. I’m a partner to someone who has children. I have an exh whom i co-parent with.

If he suddenly became a rubbish parent? I wouldn’t blame his gf. I’d hold him responsible. Because guess what? He is.

In terms of not dropping everything for last minute contact? Good. Separated/ divorced parents have a right to a life. I’m flexible with my ex and we will change nights to accommodate work/ family stuff. But only in advance and only if it works. If the other side says sorry, I have plans, then the onus is on the parent who’s contact time it was to find an alternative. I would never dream of thinking anything negative re my exh’s partner. It’s not my business.

I’m currently decorating my house, it will on a rolling basis take me months of weekends to do what I want done. Could my ex help? Sure. Would I ever expect or ask him to? No! It’s my home with my children! It’s neither his place or his responsibility to ensure my home is fit for purpose for our children. Anymore than it’s mine to ensure his is. We’re both fully functioning adults who operate with clear boundaries!

I honestly believe if the 2 parents were left solely alone to make these decisions rarely would there be so much conflict. In many instances prior to the involvement of a new party, the 2 exe were managing and plodding along without much conflict.

I do agree BUT obviously a new partner (on either side) will influence things and have opinions on how things work because it does impact them.

If parents don't want someone else's opinion or involvement in their lives then the only way to achieve that is to not enter into a new relationship until their children are adults - in some cases, not even then.

I don't think it's fair to bring a new partner into the equation if you're not willing to make any adjustments to things that genuinely do impact them.

Your sexist view seems to think that a woman can control what a man does, and you're blaming the woman for the choices a man makes.

In some case women can control and manipulated... and men can also control and manipulate. It's not gender specific.

If a dad changes contact after meeting someone new, that is on HIM and nobody else.

I suppose you haven't heard of being pressured or someone having a negative influence on another person? This happens all the time....people are coerced and strongly persuaded to do things, they wouldn't otherwise do...both men and women. A strong man would give this kind of partner the boot, but in all walks of life manipulators exist.

The thing is, it's the dad who decided he wanted to seek out a new relationship.

A new relationship is a mutual thing. The woman isn't forced into it.

Why do you always seem to feel he should have the right to consciously seek out an additional person to add to his core family - whose needs and deal breakers he would naturally have to consider alongside the others - and just sit back and expect them to accept things that are not acceptable to them?

If a new partner doesn't like the dynamic, they don't have to stay. A relationship is a 2 way thing and I don't believe things that were for the benefit of the kids, should be stopped because a new partner isn't comfortable with it. If they aren't comfortable...then it's not the best relationship for them.

And@Tattler2I don’t think you’re goady. But I do think you’re incredibly black and white and see life through your personal experiences/ journey.

I agree with this. I think because all the adults in Tattler's situation are sensible and reasonable....so sometimes it can be hard for some people to understand why others aren't so reasonable...or why people who have a choice put up with the unreasonable behaviour.

You don't have control of a crazy Ex....but you certainly have control about being with someone who has a crazy Ex and impacts your life so negatively.

I’d like to know why this woman was incapable of sorting a curtain pole or asking for someone else, or paying someone else to help her

It's just something she'd never done and my brother always did these kind of things. With the end of a relationship, you experience the loss of more than just the person and it can take time to come to terms with it.

I think what my brother struggled with most, is when the kids would ask him to come and do something in the house. He was quite irritated...not with the kids, but with his Ex, as he felt she put them up to it. I think the kids just realised she was useless with that stuff and asked their dad or it would never get done.

My honest opinion, is that this thing happens more when the kids haven't been given enough time to adjust and the parents get a new partner too quickly.

If parents don't want someone else's opinion or involvement in their lives then the only way to achieve that is to not enter into a new relationship until their children are adults

It depends....some parents see their new relationship as separate from them being a parent.

Also, second time around, men seem much more street-wise. On this forum, the majority have zeroed in on women with careers and/or their own home. They then ask a vast amount from these women that was not required from the first wife - and appear able to give little in return.

You say zeroed in, like the women have no choice in the matter. They could easily reject him.

That said, why are these women with careers and their own homes are prepared to take him on with baggage is their issue...perhaps because it takes time to have a good career/be financially stable...but then the women are advancing in years and their options in a choice of man is limited.

Incidentally, first wives often think he's a better dad/man with the new family. Maybe he's grown up and matured. They think the second wife got the better man.

@spaceshiptomars

Not only does the second wife fund the bedroom space for her own child, but often that for all of the DSCs.
Given this, it is somewhat unsurprising that she should have just one or two requirements of her own..

In this scenario, she's taken on a liability. I couldn't be with a man who couldn't afford to accommodate his own children, without my finances.

I can see why she'd have one or two requirements..money talks.

So second wives (another assumption - I am the first wife) must have low standards to entertain a man who is a father, but if she does think so poorly of herself as to go there, she must lower her bar even further and not expect her new man to make any space for their relationship in his life, he must be as free to spend time and money on his ex as he ever was. Ok then.

@SandyY2K

Your sexist view seems to think that a woman can control what a man does, and you're blaming the woman for the choices a man makes.

In some case women can control and manipulated... and men can also control and manipulate. It's not gender specific.

If a dad changes contact after meeting someone new, that is on HIM and nobody else.

I suppose you haven't heard of being pressured or someone having a negative influence on another person? This happens all the time....people are coerced and strongly persuaded to do things, they wouldn't otherwise do...both men and women. A strong man would give this kind of partner the boot, but in all walks of life manipulators exist.

The thing is, it's the dad who decided he wanted to seek out a new relationship.

A new relationship is a mutual thing. The woman isn't forced into it.

Why do you always seem to feel he should have the right to consciously seek out an additional person to add to his core family - whose needs and deal breakers he would naturally have to consider alongside the others - and just sit back and expect them to accept things that are not acceptable to them?

If a new partner doesn't like the dynamic, they don't have to stay. A relationship is a 2 way thing and I don't believe things that were for the benefit of the kids, should be stopped because a new partner isn't comfortable with it. If they aren't comfortable...then it's not the best relationship for them.

And@Tattler2I don’t think you’re goady. But I do think you’re incredibly black and white and see life through your personal experiences/ journey.

I agree with this. I think because all the adults in Tattler's situation are sensible and reasonable....so sometimes it can be hard for some people to understand why others aren't so reasonable...or why people who have a choice put up with the unreasonable behaviour.

You don't have control of a crazy Ex....but you certainly have control about being with someone who has a crazy Ex and impacts your life so negatively.

I’d like to know why this woman was incapable of sorting a curtain pole or asking for someone else, or paying someone else to help her

It's just something she'd never done and my brother always did these kind of things. With the end of a relationship, you experience the loss of more than just the person and it can take time to come to terms with it.

I think what my brother struggled with most, is when the kids would ask him to come and do something in the house. He was quite irritated...not with the kids, but with his Ex, as he felt she put them up to it. I think the kids just realised she was useless with that stuff and asked their dad or it would never get done.

My honest opinion, is that this thing happens more when the kids haven't been given enough time to adjust and the parents get a new partner too quickly.

If parents don't want someone else's opinion or involvement in their lives then the only way to achieve that is to not enter into a new relationship until their children are adults

It depends....some parents see their new relationship as separate from them being a parent.

Also, second time around, men seem much more street-wise. On this forum, the majority have zeroed in on women with careers and/or their own home. They then ask a vast amount from these women that was not required from the first wife - and appear able to give little in return.

You say zeroed in, like the women have no choice in the matter. They could easily reject him.

That said, why are these women with careers and their own homes are prepared to take him on with baggage is their issue...perhaps because it takes time to have a good career/be financially stable...but then the women are advancing in years and their options in a choice of man is limited.

Incidentally, first wives often think he's a better dad/man with the new family. Maybe he's grown up and matured. They think the second wife got the better man.

So basically the poor men's are never to blame. Boo hoo I've been forced to get into a relationship and drop my contact. fuck no, that's on them!

You say zeroed in, like the women have no choice in the matter. They could easily reject him.

The men usually have the advantage of age and experience, and love-bombing is a thing. I was horrified by the tale of the young woman who didn't want any children of her own, but was housing and looking after DP and all his full-time. Poster after poster came on to tell she was being used, but she couldn't see it for herself. Love truly is blind.

When I was mid-twenties and earning very nicely thank you, I had the zeroing in on experience. Mid thirties, very good looking guy, divorced, 2 kids made a play for me. Too good looking though. I smelt a rat!

And proven fertility and willingness to be a Dad is a big, big lure. So many men are reluctant to commit or consider being a parent within the possible timeframe of the woman. Those who would add an extra child to their tally appear to auction that possibility to the highest bidder....

The thing is, it's the dad who decided he wanted to seek out a new relationship.
A new relationship is a mutual thing. The woman isn't forced into it.

I see this so much on here, but I don't understand it.

Of course the woman isn't forced into it, but the man is the one with all the balls in the air to manage (in the situations we are discussing here). He is the one with more to consider before even exploring the possibility of dating.

If he knows that he doesn't want to change anything about his current arrangements with his kids and his ex, then he either doesn't enter a new relationship or he ends the relationship with his new partner when she expresses she wants changes.

It is entirely natural for a new partner to come along and ask for certain things to be considered/changed - kids or no kids. Nobody has to make any changes but I think most would agree that if you want a relationship to work, you do tend to make changes to accommodate your partner. And when these changes are things that many would think were totally reasonable - like please don't go and do DIY for your ex, or please can you stop your ex from calling every day - I don't think it's fair to blame the new partner for not being comfortable with the status quo.

So she will ask for changes and he will make them, or not. But if he does, it doesn't mean it's choosing his new partner ahead of his kids, or doing something purposely to their detriment. It's just trying to achieve a level of balance for everyone involved.

You say zeroed in, like the women have no choice in the matter. They could easily reject him.

But why would they reject him if they are happy and he has made changes to help them be more comfortable?

The reality is that a new partner's interests will often be at odds with the interests of the ex and sometimes even the kids, and that can be where the high conflict situations come from - in both directions. But ultimately it's on the man (or parent of whatever sex) to manage, particularly when it comes to his new partner.

That said, why are these women with careers and their own homes are prepared to take him on with baggage is their issue...perhaps because it takes time to have a good career/be financially stable...but then the women are advancing in years and their options in a choice of man is limited.

I just think women don't always see it this way, in terms of being 'prepared to take him on'. Women mature more quickly than men and the younger guys are often trying to put off what many women want (marriage, kids), whereas for older men who have done it before, it's not such a big deal. Add this to the fact that they are just normal blokes who you might click with and it's easy to see why they are attractive.

Plus the majority of single dads don't have full or even 50/50 residency so the prospect of having SCs every other weekend for a few years doesn't seem so daunting, until you actually get into it and realise his responsibilities don't end there.

Incidentally, first wives often think he's a better dad/man with the new family. Maybe he's grown up and matured. They think the second wife got the better man.

I think there is some truth in this, for sure. From my partner's perspective anyway, he was always a good and loving dad, but he is the first to admit he is more engaged and present when he's with his kids now, because the time he spends with them is entirely dedicated to them.

@Youseethethingis

So second wives (another assumption - I am the first wife) must have low standards to entertain a man who is a father, but if she does think so poorly of herself as to go there, she must lower her bar even further and not expect her new man to make any space for their relationship in his life, he must be as free to spend time and money on his ex as he ever was. Ok then.

Women who are “first wives” are the only ones who’s feelings matter. Or that’s how it comes across.

But why would they reject him if they are happy and he has made changes to help them be more comfortable?

If they're happy with him, there's no reason to reject him, but usually they're here because he's not so happy making the changes she wants, or he is making them and it's causing problems with the Ex...or it's issues with the kids, which won't be changing anytime soon.

Just seen your response to me Sandy, but you are still constantly looking to put the onus on the new partner for any perceived lack of prioritising of the kids.

A new relationship is a mutual thing. The woman isn't forced into it.

Yes we all know that. My highlighting that the dad chose to get into a relationship was to counter the fact that the above is ALWAYS pointed out. The difference between them, is the dad is the one that chose to seek out a relationship knowing that might be difficult to make work alongside his various commitments and existing dynamics with his kids. He is the one that's going to have to put the work in to make those two things work together.

If a new partner doesn't like the dynamic, they don't have to stay. A relationship is a 2 way thing and I don't believe things that were for the benefit of the kids, should be stopped because a new partner isn't comfortable with it. If they aren't comfortable...then it's not the best relationship for them.

You always say this. No, the new partner doesn't have to stay if they don't like the existing dynamic. But they also don't have to refrain from saying if you change x y and z, I will stay. That is their prerogative as someone for whom protecting the existing dynamic is not paramount. If then, the dad decides he will make changes to accommodate his partner, whether they be minor or major, that decision is on him. Because HE is the person with a responsibility to consider and care about both things.

You say zeroed in, like the women have no choice in the matter. They could easily reject him.

I also find it interesting that you would say this, whilst also choosing to highlight that the men are likely pressured and coerced into their decision making. Sure, you SAID that can happen with women, too. But it isn't reflected in the way you talk about women in the slightest.

@SandyY2K

But why would they reject him if they are happy and he has made changes to help them be more comfortable?

If they're happy with him, there's no reason to reject him, but usually they're here because he's not so happy making the changes she wants, or he is making them and it's causing problems with the Ex...or it's issues with the kids, which won't be changing anytime soon.

But either way, she's only going to walk away if more of her life becomes unhappy than happy due to involvement with this man. Everyone has complaints in their relationships, but for a lot of SM's it's not for the majority of the time, whereas the dad can sometimes be getting it from all angles.

It's up to the man if he wants to change things regardless of his belief that it impacts the children negatively. But equally, a lot of changes to the status quo are regarded to be impacting children negatively by the mum - not the dad - because of her own perceived reasons. It is not always fair criticism and there will always be differences in how people choose to organise their lives following a split, and what they feel is OK for their children when they no longer really need to agree it together.

See as an example the current thread of a mother who believes her children are not being prioritised by their dad because one has a vomiting bug and his wife is about to go into hospital for a C-section so he saw them at the park instead of taking the back to his as normal.

If a new partner doesn't like the dynamic, they don't have to stay

But 'the dynamic' is not an immovable thing that can never be changed. That is the problem with this kind of mindset.

These dynamics are usually created in the early days following a split, where both parties are tiptoeing around the other, both are desperately worried about the immediate impact on the children and concerned about ensuring their relationship with their children remains strong. Both are fairly unlikely to be concerned about starting new relationships at this stage.

However, when things have settled obviously things do tend to change a bit, and when one ex meets someone else it's not a huge surprise if the other doesn't like it, either from their own perspective or because they are worried their children may get pushed out.

It's understandable but doesn't make anybody wrong for wanting to change things a bit now that wider circumstances have changed.