The reverse and another perspective

[SandyY2K]

I saw this on another forum and a lot of the content sounded so familiar in terms of what SMs say.

Are you quick to assume your stepkid’s mum is High-Conflict, just because she challenges an opinion or decision of your husband’s?

Do you read every email/text between her and your husband? Are you helping him craft every response? Are you responding on his behalf?

Have you put rules in place about how often, or by what means, your husband is allowed to communicate with her?

Do you think you’re a better parent than her? More importantly, do you tell people that?

Do you badmouth her in public? To colleagues? In-laws? In front of the kids?

Is everything her fault? Do you think that your life would be “perfect” if she wasn’t in the picture?

Do you demand to attend all exchanges, school functions, or sporting events if she is going to be there? Even if you know it could cause extreme conflict? But, just because you want your presence known?

Tips to become a Low-Conflict Stepmom

In all decision making, consider her perspective. Your take on a situation is not always right, and sometimes, more heads are better than one.A difference of opinion in parenting does not mean that she is “high-conflict.

@sassbott you can order revisions here but it's virtually impossible to get one actually revised. The Irish constitution has a very long history of protecting The Family & while divorce is widespread the legislation is weighted very heavily towards the mother & the children.
I think the changes which are coming on board in the UK are very much needed here too as so many divorced men are crippled financially and too many divorced women are allowed assume ongoing dependancy on the father of their children. This in turn has a huge psychological impact on all involved as subsequent relationships often struggle to survive under the weight of prominence of the 'First Family'.
I know a number of women whose relationships with divorced men with dc have recently broken down & they have all cited the ongoing behaviour of the exw & dc, & their partners inability to do anything about it as the reason the relationship is no longer continuing.
I know legislation has to be in place to protect against men who try to shirk their responsibilities (& it's hard here for a father to get away with not paying maintenance - that's the upside) but in turn that legislation needs to be tweaked to stop certain mothers abusing it.

Everyone should focus on their own actions and the potential future impact on those they love/care for rather than putting all their energy and attention on how the other got it all wrong and doing all the damage.
Yep. But people are so bad at this aren't they? And it becomes a vicious cycle that won't get broken until someone sees this & steps outside of it.
@vivainsomnia you describe very well how my split/divorce felt. Exh left for ow, I was gutted, he felt guilty etc. etc. & we could have played off each other & this dynamic endlessly - going back & forth & round & round. I am so beyond grateful that I chose to go back and see a therapist I had previously seen for another issue & very quickly I learned how to step outside our marriage breakdown & focus on coparenting. Exh (even though he was in another relationship) kept trying to cling on (through guilt) - offers of lawn mowing, laundry doing etc. etc. - all of which I kept repeatedly saying no to; the end result being that I was able to move on & focus on the kids in all ways.
I think so many former couple cannot or choose not to break this dynamic & so they get locked in this ongoing cycle of codependency & blame.

When you throw legislation that is geared towards propping up this cycle instead of bringing closure in on top of it you are then, more often than not, left with a big old mess that actually serves no one.

@Magda72 the law in different countries within the UK is different. So for example it is easier to get divorced in Scotland than in England and Wales, and the rules on spousal maintenance are different. This is why it is really important when people post that they say where they are and what laws they are using.

I do not understand a man or woman who after a brief adjustment period is unable to pay for and provide a home for his or her children.

Some people have to make that choice Tattler.

My partner is not particularly well paid. His ex moved away with his kids, limiting him to every other weekend and times in the school holidays. Therefore he chose to pay her more maintenance than is mandated in order for his children to have a nicer home, a bedroom each, be able to do hobbies etc in the place where they spend 90% of their time.

He could instead have saved that money and put it towards a better home for himself, but he felt it benefitted his children more on his ex's side of the fence.

Not everyone without lots of money is a waster. Most people are just doing their best with the resources they have.

@Tattler2 you understand very little about the housing market and childcare in the UK.

[quote RedMarauder]@Tattler2 you understand very little about the housing market and childcare in the UK.[/quote]
I worked in the States for a bit. Where I was staying, I kept seeing tiny women vanish into cupboards each time I went into the corridor. Illegal immigrants I guess, working for pennies. Maybe the childcare solutions are similar.

[quote sassbott]@Tattler2 there are many people, even pre divorce (especially in London for example) where owning a home is not an option. There are also plenty of friends I know where divorce has pushed one or the other from a family home they owned into rented accommodation. Often times if children are in certain schools etc, a move is not ideal. But the pot that could previously own one home is unlikely to stretch to two if the parents seek to stay in the same area. Which is probably the best thing to minimise upheaval to the children.

That blunt reality is why so many people stay in unhappy marriages. Separately, they won’t have much at all.

Based on all the above, would I find someone unattractive as a partner if they didn’t own a home? No.[/quote]
YES exactly this.

Take my DP and his ex. As I mentioned above, she moved away after their split, to a cheaper area. Her family are there but realistically she didn't have much choice as she couldn't afford to stay where they were living (renting). They were just outside SE London.

She was working part-time and she and DP were just about making ends meet together. His wages went almost entirely on the rent, and hers were what they lived on. One part-time wage. They had lots of debt due to this. Their finances, combined with neither wanting to be away from their children, had already kept them together for at least a couple of years longer than they really wanted to be.

Not everyone has a big family home to sell and split in order to move. And even if they did, to be able to stay relatively close to each other they would have had to agree together to move to a cheaper area, away from everyone else they knew, just for that reason.

Very good point @RedMarauder - I should have realised there would be differences even within the UK!

@LittleMysSister
But 'the dynamic' is not an immovable thing that can never be changed. That is the problem with this kind of mindset.

I guess my perspective on this is that I take people as I see them. I don't see that it's my place to change someone or to change a set up that has been working for them. In the same way I don't want a partner to try and change me or my way of doing things with my kids. If they don't like what they see, they should walk away.

If your partner does what they do, then I assume they're happy with it. If they don't see the need to change it of their own volition when they get into a new relationship, then that would tell me everything I need to know in regards to whether this is the relationship for me. This way of dictating what time they text, how much they text, by what means they communicate, how much child support, how much extra he contributes....it's just not the way to go IMO.

I would never want to be accused of the reason things have changed to the detriment of the child. That just starts of on a bad footing.

My view is that if my partner does those things, he's happy doing them. If he's not him not me then he can do something about it.

This is why SMs can a bad reputation, because of the changes that occur when she, the new woman comes on the scene.

In the same way positive changes can happen, so do negative changes and it shouldn't be pushed aside like it's not possible. Many men suddenly want to increase contact and become more involved when they have a new partner, because some women will not be with a man who doesn't step up. Many mums have spoken about how much happier their kids are to see dad since his new GF came along....as she has created a nicer environment.

I think sometimes people feel like step mums and step children are automatically in competition with each other but that has not been my experience of it.

It isn't your experience, but it is reality in some cases. Especially with SMs and stepdaughters.

*It isn't your experience, but it is reality in some cases. Especially with SMs and stepdaughters"

I know it sometimes is but I don't think it has to be and I can't see how it can develop unless there's already an unhealthy dynamic in the relationship between the DSC and her father. I wouldn't have stuck around if I felt like I had to compete with dp's children.

@SandyY2K

But changes usually always happen as part of entering a new relationship? It's not an exclusive 'step' issue, but one that impacts every couple.

People who used to go out with their mates every Saturday night might stop doing that, people who do their hobby 4 times a week might cut down, people who used to spent every single Christmas with their own parents have to make a change to accommodate the new person in their life, and on and on and on.

Both parties in a relationship edit their lives/routines somewhat to be in a relationship. It's not possible to continue living exactly as when you were single and maintain a happy relationship.

Certainly myself and my DP's lives have changed since being together. I don't see him as 'trying to change me' or not taking me as he finds me because I am not available to spend most nights with my mates anymore, or because he expects me to do days out/holidays with him and his kids.

So I still stand by if you want to live your life as if you are still single and have no one else to consider except yourself (and your kids in some cases), then just do that. Stay single.

So I still stand by if you want to live your life as if you are still single and have no one else to consider except yourself (and your kids in some cases), then just do that. Stay single
This is it in a nutshell.
"But I have kids" is not a good reason to treat a new partner disrespectfully. And it really is disrespectful in many cases I've read about on here.
Most normal, reasonable people know that kids are top priority in general terms. They are more dependent, more vulnerable and childhood is so important in deciding how their entire lives pan out. No parent wants to let their child down.
However, if, for example, you are leaving your new bf hanging around waiting like a spare dick because little Tabitha has decided she wants to do painting with mummy and won't be babysat by aunt Muriel for a few hours, you'd be better off staying single.

@Youseethethingis Yes, agreed.

There is a huge middle ground in between everything to do with the children being sacrosanct and a new partner coming in and changing up everything.

I have step mothers encouraged to put up with things that in any other relationship would be considered abuse - in some cases being implored to let people who had been violent to them into their home.

It is abuse, but she knew what she was getting into.

if you want to live your life as if you are still single and have no one else to consider except yourself (and your kids in some cases), then just do that. Stay single

I totally agree with this. If you respecting a partner is incompatible with your relationship with your children then you shouldn't have a partner. Having children isn't a free pass to disregard your partner's needs.

It's the frog in the boiling water scenario. Slowly needs and wishes of SP are diminished until they are expected to have none.

I think you have to have firm boundaries with SP. I have certainly learned that and I always thought I had good boundaries (laugh with me now girls) and funnily enough when I have said ok , leave walk walk, my life would be easier without you in it and idgaf, everyone's bouncing around going no no we didn't mean it to take the mick . But you still did though didn't you so there was intention there.

God if I had known sp would have been this hard I would have run.

in some cases being implored to let people who had been violent to them into their home.

A lot of that is down to sexism where in general society doesn't see, or in the case of CAFCASS ignores, woman on woman violence.

@KylieKoKo I couldn't agree more!
Honestly I think stepparenting (stepmothering in particular) & blended families seem to be the one area of life where adults are expected to put up with things that would NEVER be expected of them in any other part or aspect of life; to the detriment of their mental health & physical well-being.
As so many others have said - if you don't want to prioritise a partner to some extent, stay single. Do not expect another adult to put up with what is often physical & mental abuse from both your dc, your ex & many times yourself.

[quote Magda72]@KylieKoKo I couldn't agree more!
Honestly I think stepparenting (stepmothering in particular) & blended families seem to be the one area of life where adults are expected to put up with things that would NEVER be expected of them in any other part or aspect of life; to the detriment of their mental health & physical well-being.
As so many others have said - if you don't want to prioritise a partner to some extent, stay single. Do not expect another adult to put up with what is often physical & mental abuse from both your dc, your ex & many times yourself.[/quote]
Agree with this.

I quite often read other threads on this site and think people are so over the top with telling the OP to LTB - all some partners have to do is go out and get drunk, not clean the house often enough, or not do dinner often enough and people are screaming that he's gaslighting and abusing and OP should leave him....

But yet on the step-parenting board people are expected to settle for meagre drabs of relationships. As if a parent is doing them a favour for even entertaining them when they have sooo much more important things to do with their time.

It is not unreasonable for people - parent or not - to work out compromises with their partner if they want to remain together.

@LittleMysSister

@SandyY2K

But changes usually always happen as part of entering a new relationship? It's not an exclusive 'step' issue, but one that impacts every couple.

People who used to go out with their mates every Saturday night might stop doing that, people who do their hobby 4 times a week might cut down, people who used to spent every single Christmas with their own parents have to make a change to accommodate the new person in their life, and on and on and on.

I see what you're saying in the example of going out so many times a week or cutting down on a hobby you do many times a week, but I don't think those things are comparable to changes that are detrimental to a child.

Reducing going out with you friends is more a growing up thing ..reducing contact with your child because of a new relationship or changing anything else that impacts on the parent child relationship, isn't quite on the same level as other changes one would make as part of a new relationship.

I can't think of anything I changed when I got married and I don't believe my DH changed anything about his way of life either. If I see something I didn't like I wouldn't have hung around.

Actually... thinking about it one thing I did change was talking on the phone as much as I did to Dsis. I altered the times we spoke so it wasn't so much when DH was home. BIL was also moaning that we spent a lot of time on the phone.

If you don't want to prioritise a partner to some extent, stay single. Do not expect another adult to put up with what is often physical & mental abuse from both your dc, your ex & many times yourself.

Nobody should tolerate abuse, but there does need to be some understanding about prior commitments like kids. Entering a relationship with someone who has kids, is very different than with a childfree person. I think many women without kids are naive and really have no idea what they're getting into and are so loved up, that they don't even seriously consider the downside to being in a relationship with a dad.. especially one with a difficult Ex.

I would personally feel bad if I was pushing for changes in a relationship which would impact my partners children. I just wouldn't want to be the catalyst for this change and get blamed somewhere down the line.

Like the SM who insisted they move away because she got a job elsewhere and didn't care that her husband was moving away from his kids, even whenhe saidhe didn'twantto move becauseif them.

10 years later, it's come back to bite, as the stepkids are mad with their dad and want nothing to do with him and hate SM, to the point they returned the money he gave them for university, because he chose SM over them and moved away, reducing contact.
*
SM now says...... DH is furious at me and is saying its my fault that he doesn’t have his kids and that I'm selfish.

The marriage is now on very shaky ground.
***

I think many women without kids are naive and really have no idea what they're getting into and are so loved up, that they don't even seriously consider the downside to being in a relationship with a dad.. especially one with a difficult Ex.
@SandyY2K I see what you're saying but I had kids & certainly didn't consider myself naive & I still managed to end up in a bad situation. This was mainly down to the fact that because I absolutely wasn't a difficult ex I had no idea that such difficult exes actually existed - they were like some mythical thing in the movies, much like the evil stepmother!
I think all relationships are a leap of faith to a certain extent but I also think that denying people the right to expectation of certain outcomes in a relationship is wrong.

I genuinely do believe that in a relationship it's up to the person with the issues/difficulties/commitments to be very upfront about how available they are & what level of compromise they are willing to make. I don't think it's fair to expect the other person to temper their expectations just because someone has kids/exes/elderly parents etc. - it's up to that person to know how ready THEY are for a relationship.
I did not enter into a serious relationship until I knew that both myself & my dc were in a headspace to have someone new in our lives & until I knew that both myself & my dc could make the appropriate compromises. Previous to that I told 2 men that I wasn't able to give them what they wanted; that neither my dc nor I were ready for a serious relationship & the compromises that would entail.
My exdp thought he was ready (told me he was ready) but he wasn't, & all the crap that ensued was on him - not me - & once that crap started compromising my dc too much I left the relationship.
I am still in touch with exdp from time to time & I harbour him no ill will but he wasted a huge amount of my time 'pretending' he was sorted so as not to lose me when in fact he wasn't sorted at all.
I get on with my ex but he can be difficult & when he is I don't entertain it. I give my dc the best of me but I've taught them to see me as a person & not just "mum". They are prioritised but so am I & they get this. They have all had their difficulties with their dad but I (& therapists paid for by me) have taught them how to handle their emotions around parental relationships. In doing all this I have made efforts to ensure that if I am in a relationship with someone that I can give them the time & energy THEY deserve. Yes, my dc will need my time & attention but not to the detriment of me or the person I may be with. That's on me. I wanted to be available to be with someone so I worked on that. I would never have just expected some poor sod to take a few crumbs of my time & then blame him for expecting too much of me.

I think many women without kids are naive and really have no idea what they're getting into and are so loved up, that they don't even seriously consider the downside to being in a relationship with a dad.. especially one with a difficult Ex.

I do agree with this, although I'd say most people worry about the obvious things such as whether the children will like and accept them, how the ex will respond to them, and how they will cope with having an ex in the picture.

But there is definitely a lot that you could never anticipate when going in, and every situation is so unique.

@SandyY2K

especially one with a difficult Ex.

Some ex-partners aren't difficult until they realise that their former partner really has moved on relationship wise with someone else.

I was reading some tabloid fodder earlier where a minor celeb was saying how upset that her ex-husband had quietly got remarried. He, his new wife and the rest of their household quietly get on with their lives. However to ensure the minor celeb still has a career she has to dig up stuff about him.

Like the SM who insisted they move away because she got a job elsewhere and didn't care that her husband was moving away from his kids, even whenhe saidhe didn'twantto move becauseif them.

So a weak person - a man in this case - who blames everyone else for their mistakes.

Incidentally I do know some fathers who did want to move away from their existing kids but it subsequently came out when they finally did move that the SM wouldn't allow them to move earlier due to his existing kids.

I think many women without kids are naive and really have no idea what they're getting into and are so loved up, that they don't even seriously consider the downside to being in a relationship with a dad.. especially one with a difficult Ex.

In the sense that they will not have spent their time hanging out on Mumsnet, because - why would they? Either they are very young, or they have busy careers. The onus is on the actual parent to clue them up - but if the dad hasn't done much parenting, or is reaching for a childcare saviour or a sugarmom - not going to happen.

Anyway, doesn't matter how much time you hang out here - you'll miss something! We are always unprepared and learning on the fly - that's life.