Applying to change a court order

[chippe]

Just looking for some advice if anyone has been through similar.

Should also say I'm in Scotland in case that makes a difference.

My DP separated from exW 8 years ago and have a 9 year old DS.

There is a court agreement in place regarding contact and DP has 2 overnights one week, 3 the next (so 5 of 14).

We're really keen to increase to 50/50 if possible but obviously this would need to go through court.

DPs point is that the existing arrangement was made when DS was only 1 (coming up for 2) and things have changed considerably since then.

However his ex says NO as there is an established routine that has been working well for DS and she doesn't see why it should change. She also claims to have asked him and he said he doesn't want any more overnights with his had as he likes it how it is.

Obviously there would a lot of stress and hassle going through the courts so just wondered what you think our chances would be?

when I said it's not what he wants, he's not actually against it. He just shrugs and says it's fine as it is.
I'm sure if it changed he'd still be happy. Not as if we'd take him against his will
@chippe I'm sorry if I've picked up your tone incorrectly but honestly you (& your dp) are really coming across as two people with your own agenda & you're not actually listening to your dss. Just because he's not vehemently against it doesn't mean he'd still be happy. He has little to gain from changing his set up bar seeing his dad extra but even that won't be extra time with his dad - it will be extra time with you & his dad. Peer groups become more and more important at this age and more time with you means less time with friends.
There's nothing wrong with your set up so why are you two forcing it? Your dss does not benefit from you pushing this & he is going to benefit even less if his two parents fall out over this.

@nevergoesaway

It won’t let me quote you *@Evesgarden*, but I actually agree with you about this situation. I just thought that previous comment was awful, and actually cruel. How on Earth do you know that in this particular situation, the SS doesn’t like the op and is secretly glad to get away from her? Just because some stepmums on here feel that way about the step children? That’s not relevant to this situation! The fact is, the op sounds like a nice person, wanting to spend more time with her SS.

However, he sounds like he doesn’t want that, and his well-being is important here, as everyone else has already said better than me.

I also think it’s worrying and predictable that dad is now suddenly keen to have him more because he’s got op to do all the ‘wife work’ that comes along with it. I’d see this as a red flag op.

I never said the lad doesn't like OP and is secretly glad to get away from her. You should go back and read what I said.

Children get on with their parents new partners because they have to, yes they may like the new partner and get on with them but thats because they are very adaptable. And yes some children are relieved when they have had their fun but are going back to their base, where their friends are, bedroom is, where their toys are and the normality of their main home.

Just like some women are relieved when their partners child goes back home even though they like them.

Normal service has resumed.

I think its incredibly blinkered that the OP is preferring to assume because the child hasn't actually said "NO I don't want to stay here more' that he isn't that bothered where he lives. When in reality he probably feels very guilty and uncomfortable that is isn't saying he does to his father and his new partner. This will not end well if OP and her partner can not even read what the lad is trying to convey. They are not listening to him and will only push him away

I'm taking everything on board and thinking it through. I'll chat with DP tonight and show him all the views so he can decide what he wants to do.

I think it's a bit fair that his mums house is viewed as "his base" or "his home" - he regularly spends 3 nights a week with us and has his own room which he picked the decor for, LOTS of toys, a full 2nd wardrobe of clothes. He refers to both houses as "home"

@chippe

If in the end, you are all motivated by what is best for the child and attentive to his expressed wishes , you will probably come to some reasonable consensus.

If all of you are truly vested in the child's well being and positive development it will further his sense of love and security being available to him regardless of how his time is allocated.

@Evesgarden fair enough, maybe I misunderstood your comment.
Agree with everything you said in the last reply, again it won’t let me quote you.

@chippe

I'm taking everything on board and thinking it through. I'll chat with DP tonight and show him all the views so he can decide what he wants to do.

I think it's a bit fair that his mums house is viewed as "his base" or "his home" - he regularly spends 3 nights a week with us and has his own room which he picked the decor for, LOTS of toys, a full 2nd wardrobe of clothes. He refers to both houses as "home"

Yes, he spends most time at his mums. 3 nights a week isn't more than half. Your dp has been happy that, he sounds more time with his mum for years.

Its mot about fairness. Of course the house where he spends more time will be his 'base'. When secondary school applications go in, whose address will they use?

You may think it's 'unfair' but it's a situation your dp helped create and was happy with for quite a long time. It actually appears that it's you that seems unhappy about this not him.

Its seems you feel he should have 2 main homes. Even if that doesn't suit the child.

I do find it bit odd that this seems to be about 'fairness' and what you and your dp wants. But not what the child is indicating.

I

You can't know for sure that dss has been manipulated by his mum. Children like stability and your partner has only had the current court order for a year. I think the timing of the cms letter and applying to court to increase contact will not be viewed favourably. Children need stability and moving between houses isn't always good for them. I would listen to your dss on this occasion.. The court will do what's in his best interests and not yours or your partners.

I do have to say.. None of your posts seem very child focused.

@chippe

I'm taking everything on board and thinking it through. I'll chat with DP tonight and show him all the views so he can decide what he wants to do.

I think it's a bit fair that his mums house is viewed as "his base" or "his home" - he regularly spends 3 nights a week with us and has his own room which he picked the decor for, LOTS of toys, a full 2nd wardrobe of clothes. He refers to both houses as "home"

but what does he want? like really want? child not DP

it does seem very "what we want" than what the child needs and wants

child needs a stable home, period. He sounds like he has that so why rock the boat?

as a teen he will speak up more and dragging any child through the courts again because of what you want is awful

@chippe why do you feel that’s unfair?

Listen, none of us on here know how your SS feels. None of us know the true nature of what is going on with the mother and whether she is/ isn’t undermining the relationship he has with you.

I am a mother, who has a very amicable co-parenting relationship with my exh. I also am a partner to a man with children who has CO for contact with his children and a very high conflict exwife. As a result of that I know tge family courts/ law/ processes in England very well. So I have no axe to grind against anyone, legitimately.

This is what I will say about your posts.

1. if your SS is with you some weeks for 3 nights and he has a lovely time at yours - parental alienation is categorically not at play in the background. You would be seeing a host of emotional issues if the mother was messing with him/ trying to create loyalty binds
2. You personally seem very vested in this. Why would you feel it is unfair that people have suggested that SS feels his main base is with his mother and not at yours? You can do all the things you wish (in terms of a lovely bedroom/ clothes etc) and it’s very thoughtful, but that doesn’t mean the child necessarily is just as comfortable at yours. I mean I’m not saying how he feels (how the hell would I know), but I am quite intrigued that you would think it ‘unfair.’ Why? Please read my post from earlier. My children adore their father, even as teens they tend to not mess too much with contact yet. But they are more comfortable at my home and my ex openly admits that. He’s not remotely phased by it either, children feel the way they feel.
3. Who’s pushing for this? You or your DP? Because I have to be honest, it feels like it’s coming from you.

Do not, for the love of god, take this back to court and put the child through an horrific process because of what you / your DP think is fair/ or right. You have absolutely no idea how horrific the process can be and just how much it can ratchet up conflict. If you have a happy settled child, FGS count your lucky stars and continue to allow that child to have a childhood where he is not asked to pick between his mum and his dad.

If you want to ask me what would be unfair, it’s that. This kids has articulated he is fine with how things are. If you start this process (and you’re clearly the driving force- sorry but you are), you are putting this kid in a position that he has verbalised he does not wish to be put in. This could backfire on you massively and have the opposite impact of what you are hoping.

If I did this to my kids? Or my ex did? The kids would be furious. And they wouldn’t forget it in a hurry.

[quote sassbott]@chippe why do you feel that’s unfair?

Listen, none of us on here know how your SS feels. None of us know the true nature of what is going on with the mother and whether she is/ isn’t undermining the relationship he has with you.

I am a mother, who has a very amicable co-parenting relationship with my exh. I also am a partner to a man with children who has CO for contact with his children and a very high conflict exwife. As a result of that I know tge family courts/ law/ processes in England very well. So I have no axe to grind against anyone, legitimately.

This is what I will say about your posts.

1. if your SS is with you some weeks for 3 nights and he has a lovely time at yours - parental alienation is categorically not at play in the background. You would be seeing a host of emotional issues if the mother was messing with him/ trying to create loyalty binds
2. You personally seem very vested in this. Why would you feel it is unfair that people have suggested that SS feels his main base is with his mother and not at yours? You can do all the things you wish (in terms of a lovely bedroom/ clothes etc) and it’s very thoughtful, but that doesn’t mean the child necessarily is just as comfortable at yours. I mean I’m not saying how he feels (how the hell would I know), but I am quite intrigued that you would think it ‘unfair.’ Why? Please read my post from earlier. My children adore their father, even as teens they tend to not mess too much with contact yet. But they are more comfortable at my home and my ex openly admits that. He’s not remotely phased by it either, children feel the way they feel.
3. Who’s pushing for this? You or your DP? Because I have to be honest, it feels like it’s coming from you.

Do not, for the love of god, take this back to court and put the child through an horrific process because of what you / your DP think is fair/ or right. You have absolutely no idea how horrific the process can be and just how much it can ratchet up conflict. If you have a happy settled child, FGS count your lucky stars and continue to allow that child to have a childhood where he is not asked to pick between his mum and his dad.

If you want to ask me what would be unfair, it’s that. This kids has articulated he is fine with how things are. If you start this process (and you’re clearly the driving force- sorry but you are), you are putting this kid in a position that he has verbalised he does not wish to be put in. This could backfire on you massively and have the opposite impact of what you are hoping.

If I did this to my kids? Or my ex did? The kids would be furious. And they wouldn’t forget it in a hurry.[/quote]
You should read and digest this. Speaks sense. I feel this is very driven by you also, just in how you post. It's all very us, us, us.

Op, can I ask how you are generally as a step mother? Are you involved in Dss life in a parental way?

@Pebbledashery

I do have to say.. None of your posts seem very child focused.

I agree.

OP - what currently happens during school holidays in terms of how long is spent at each house? and who has been responsible for holiday care - mum or dad or both? If you are going to do 50/50, how will you manage half the holidays?

On another note, 50/50 should be approached from the perspective that each parents pays for 50% of costs. This will include school uniforms, shoes, coats, haircuts, school trips, school lunches, being responsible for any childcare costs incurred on your time (including holiday club costs), extra-curricular activites (football, music, cubs etc)
Are you able to manage a situation where he moves up a level and suddenly football is on your time when it used to be on mum's? It will also require a willingness/ability to drop everything and run on your days should the school call regarding illness as well as taking your fair share of essential appointments - doctors, dentist, hospital, optician - also need to be split on a 50/50 basis. Anything less - if no maintenance is going to be paid - would be unreasonable.

Finally, how will that all be managed from the distance you live? In the big scheme of things, 20/30 minutes isn't necessarily a huge distance but if you have to drop and run because he's just thrown up at school, it can quickly become a problem if you're working a similar time/distance in another direction.

If this isn't a wind up - which I'm starting to think it is - its got every thing to do with the review CM letter.

[quote sassbott]@chippe why do you feel that’s unfair?

Listen, none of us on here know how your SS feels. None of us know the true nature of what is going on with the mother and whether she is/ isn’t undermining the relationship he has with you.

I am a mother, who has a very amicable co-parenting relationship with my exh. I also am a partner to a man with children who has CO for contact with his children and a very high conflict exwife. As a result of that I know tge family courts/ law/ processes in England very well. So I have no axe to grind against anyone, legitimately.

This is what I will say about your posts.

1. if your SS is with you some weeks for 3 nights and he has a lovely time at yours - parental alienation is categorically not at play in the background. You would be seeing a host of emotional issues if the mother was messing with him/ trying to create loyalty binds
2. You personally seem very vested in this. Why would you feel it is unfair that people have suggested that SS feels his main base is with his mother and not at yours? You can do all the things you wish (in terms of a lovely bedroom/ clothes etc) and it’s very thoughtful, but that doesn’t mean the child necessarily is just as comfortable at yours. I mean I’m not saying how he feels (how the hell would I know), but I am quite intrigued that you would think it ‘unfair.’ Why? Please read my post from earlier. My children adore their father, even as teens they tend to not mess too much with contact yet. But they are more comfortable at my home and my ex openly admits that. He’s not remotely phased by it either, children feel the way they feel.
3. Who’s pushing for this? You or your DP? Because I have to be honest, it feels like it’s coming from you.

Do not, for the love of god, take this back to court and put the child through an horrific process because of what you / your DP think is fair/ or right. You have absolutely no idea how horrific the process can be and just how much it can ratchet up conflict. If you have a happy settled child, FGS count your lucky stars and continue to allow that child to have a childhood where he is not asked to pick between his mum and his dad.

If you want to ask me what would be unfair, it’s that. This kids has articulated he is fine with how things are. If you start this process (and you’re clearly the driving force- sorry but you are), you are putting this kid in a position that he has verbalised he does not wish to be put in. This could backfire on you massively and have the opposite impact of what you are hoping.

If I did this to my kids? Or my ex did? The kids would be furious. And they wouldn’t forget it in a hurry.[/quote]
This post is very very wise and says it exactly as it is.

Op, its,clear from what people are saying on here, the child wants to stay at his mums because that's his base and you can't expect a child to move backwards and forwards too much as it's unsettling on them. So why doesn't your partner apply to have majority custody, then the child will have a base at your house. That would seem to sort out that problem.

had assumed a child becoming more mature and being more comfortable spending longer away from their mum would have been one of the top reasons? (And it is the genuine reason in this case)

But he doesn't want to spend more time away from his mum- so this argument is t valid.

Some kids like to have a main home and a 2nd home it helps them

@Nightlystroll

Op, its,clear from what people are saying on here, the child wants to stay at his mums because that's his base and you can't expect a child to move backwards and forwards too much as it's unsettling on them. So why doesn't your partner apply to have majority custody, then the child will have a base at your house. That would seem to sort out that problem.

Please do not do this

The boy has made it clear he is content with the current arrangements. Your DP missed the boat in changing arrangements when the boy started school.

The next boat is now driven by the child wants and not your DP's wants.

As a PP said you are not being child focused at all.

In terms of the CMS - even if your DP had 50/50 care he could still quite easily be made to pay the boy's mother plus have additional costs on top.

[quote sassbott]@chippe why do you feel that’s unfair?

Listen, none of us on here know how your SS feels. None of us know the true nature of what is going on with the mother and whether she is/ isn’t undermining the relationship he has with you.

I am a mother, who has a very amicable co-parenting relationship with my exh. I also am a partner to a man with children who has CO for contact with his children and a very high conflict exwife. As a result of that I know tge family courts/ law/ processes in England very well. So I have no axe to grind against anyone, legitimately.

This is what I will say about your posts.

1. if your SS is with you some weeks for 3 nights and he has a lovely time at yours - parental alienation is categorically not at play in the background. You would be seeing a host of emotional issues if the mother was messing with him/ trying to create loyalty binds
2. You personally seem very vested in this. Why would you feel it is unfair that people have suggested that SS feels his main base is with his mother and not at yours? You can do all the things you wish (in terms of a lovely bedroom/ clothes etc) and it’s very thoughtful, but that doesn’t mean the child necessarily is just as comfortable at yours. I mean I’m not saying how he feels (how the hell would I know), but I am quite intrigued that you would think it ‘unfair.’ Why? Please read my post from earlier. My children adore their father, even as teens they tend to not mess too much with contact yet. But they are more comfortable at my home and my ex openly admits that. He’s not remotely phased by it either, children feel the way they feel.
3. Who’s pushing for this? You or your DP? Because I have to be honest, it feels like it’s coming from you.

Do not, for the love of god, take this back to court and put the child through an horrific process because of what you / your DP think is fair/ or right. You have absolutely no idea how horrific the process can be and just how much it can ratchet up conflict. If you have a happy settled child, FGS count your lucky stars and continue to allow that child to have a childhood where he is not asked to pick between his mum and his dad.

If you want to ask me what would be unfair, it’s that. This kids has articulated he is fine with how things are. If you start this process (and you’re clearly the driving force- sorry but you are), you are putting this kid in a position that he has verbalised he does not wish to be put in. This could backfire on you massively and have the opposite impact of what you are hoping.

If I did this to my kids? Or my ex did? The kids would be furious. And they wouldn’t forget it in a hurry.[/quote]
I agree with every word of this. OP did you know that Scottish Courts often ask the child what they would like? How do I know this? It happened to my DD and irreparably damaged her relationship with her father. Her father refused to believe what she’d told the Court afterwards. To cut a long story short she refused to meet him at his home afterwards and 6 months down the line refused to see him. She hasn’t seen him in 9 years. Be very careful how to tread here and I have to agree with others this sounds like something you want rather in what is best for the child.

@Doyoumind

Now it's clearer. He has you on hand to do the parenting he wasn't ready to take on previously. It's always the same story.

This.

Your bloke doesn't sound like a good father to be fair.

@Pebbledashery

Your bloke doesn't sound like a good father to be fair.

Au contraire. He sounds like someone who has seen and paid for his child regularly, has a good relationship with the child, has established a second home where the child is happy, and now, as the child is getting older, would like more time with him. What is being a bad father about that?

I don't think he sounds really bad.

But i don't think he sounds really great either.

He only wants the child because op is around and op admits he wouldn't have coped 50:50 without a partner. Which is a piss poor reason, imo.

And now he is planning to go through the courts to see more of the child, even though the child is fine as they are. And what if the op and the dp split? He just going to tell ds he can't have him 50:50 more?

The only benefit to any of them, to making the ds change is to reduce CMS. Which op admits is a benefit and a consideration.

That's not a great dad. Paying for and having the child 5 nights a fortnight, isn't the sign of an amazing parent. He could have done 50:50 for years. But chose not to because it was too hard. That's not an amazing parent either.

If seeing and paying for a child is all it takes to be an amazing parent, the bar is pretty low.