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Step-parenting

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Original poster

Applying to change a court order

187 replies

chippe · 06/09/2021 22:34

Just looking for some advice if anyone has been through similar.

Should also say I'm in Scotland in case that makes a difference.

My DP separated from exW 8 years ago and have a 9 year old DS.

There is a court agreement in place regarding contact and DP has 2 overnights one week, 3 the next (so 5 of 14).

We're really keen to increase to 50/50 if possible but obviously this would need to go through court.

DPs point is that the existing arrangement was made when DS was only 1 (coming up for 2) and things have changed considerably since then.

However his ex says NO as there is an established routine that has been working well for DS and she doesn't see why it should change. She also claims to have asked him and he said he doesn't want any more overnights with his had as he likes it how it is.

Obviously there would a lot of stress and hassle going through the courts so just wondered what you think our chances would be?

OP posts:
Evesgarden · 06/09/2021 23:14

I think what your thinking of doing is awful OP.

Your DS sounds really settled and happy at the arrangement - that should have been the end of the conversation.

How does he know he wouldn't be happier with more time with his dad until he tries? So much wrong with this way of thinking

He has told you his feelings on it are you really going to fight for custody behind his back - and CMS is the main driver for this.

Original poster
chippe · 06/09/2021 23:16

If CMS was the main driver it wouldn't make sense. Our court costs would be higher than any saving in CMS

OP posts:
Notapheasantplucker · 06/09/2021 23:17

we've been gradually floating the idea by DSs for a number of months.
So 'brainwashing' him until he agrees to what you want?

aprilanne · 06/09/2021 23:19

Sorry but if I was the mum
i would tell you to back off
You are his fathers girlfriend unless you are married
Even then legally its non of your business
So until you turned up the dad was happy enough but you seem to want to drive this to cut maintenance if I was his mum I would go to court to tell them its non of your bloody business

Original poster
chippe · 06/09/2021 23:20

@aprilanne

Sorry but if I was the mum i would tell you to back off You are his fathers girlfriend unless you are married Even then legally its non of your business So until you turned up the dad was happy enough but you seem to want to drive this to cut maintenance if I was his mum I would go to court to tell them its non of your bloody business
It would be DP going to court not me. And he's the only one discussing this with DSS mum. I'm only posting for advice as he doesn't use Mumsnet
OP posts:
Evesgarden · 06/09/2021 23:21

@Notapheasantplucker

we've been gradually floating the idea by DSs for a number of months. So 'brainwashing' him until he agrees to what you want?
Quite - the slow drip drip of manipulation.

OP you would have been better asking him out right once then leaving it.

If he knows he is always welcome to stay more then he knows the option is there if he wants to. He doesn't need two adults making him feel guilty or under pressure.

Bloody awful

Evesgarden · 06/09/2021 23:24

@chippe

If CMS was the main driver it wouldn't make sense. Our court costs would be higher than any saving in CMS
Not in the long term it wouldn't. Your partner will be paying CM another nine years. Unless your partner is paying a small nominal amount it wouldn't offset the nine years worth of CM.

I'd be furious if I was his mum. Does he speak to her about it? has he told her you keep asking him to go 50/50?

Have you considered he actually prefers being at home with his mum?

Doyoumind · 06/09/2021 23:26

OP you said earlier your DP thought it was best for DSS to have more time with his mum. Now you are saying it was her idea. Because you've spoken to DSS about it, if the court somehow did rule he was to have more time with you and it's not what he wants, who do you think he will hold responsible? Do you think he would be grateful? It could be damaging for all involved.

Original poster
chippe · 06/09/2021 23:29

@Doyoumind it was mutually agreed. Well his mum said a baby should be with the mother more and dp agreed (reluctantly) as he thought it would be best for him AT THAT AGE

OP posts:
ffsgivemestrength · 06/09/2021 23:30

I'm sorry OP but I have learnt that most women on here just assume men don't actually want a relationship with their children. They are bitter and assume that all men are the same as the ones they chose to have children with.
I think it's great that your DH wants more contact, so long as his son does too. Good luck!

PeeAche · 06/09/2021 23:32

OP, I understand how much you feel like this little boy is family now and how you hope he could be around more. It’s not a bad thing to want a bit more. Hopefully your little DSS feels how much he’s loved in both of his homes. Flowers

That said…

You almost certainly won’t get an increase in time. I’m positive it wouldn’t be increased up to 50%.

Maybe you could negotiate another night with mum, if things aren’t too fraught. And have it ratified by mediation instead of court.

I believe that, in Scotland, mediation is not a requirement before court action, as it is in England. But, in practice, mediation is always recommended first, either by your solicitors, or by the court sheriff.
So, effectively, you will be asked to attend mediation to alter a court order, before going to court. This is a good thing for everyone involved.

Court, mediation, Cafcass and even just cross words in emails between parents are highly stressful things for children. Think of your DSS. Remember that a year to you will fly by, but to him it’s a huge portion of his little life. If things kick off again now, and take a year to resolve, it’s drawn out and torturous for him.

I don’t have any remarkable advice to give really, just sage words. If you really feel like everyone could benefit from an increase in time with dad, take it slowly. Ask for 1 more day, keep it civil and try to ratify with mediation.

1 last thing… don’t drive yourself mad over this. I don’t believe in detached step parenting, but… y’know… accept the limitations of what this life is.xxx

Evesgarden · 06/09/2021 23:34

@ffsgivemestrength

I'm sorry OP but I have learnt that most women on here just assume men don't actually want a relationship with their children. They are bitter and assume that all men are the same as the ones they chose to have children with. I think it's great that your DH wants more contact, so long as his son does too. Good luck!
The thing is the Ds has already said he likes the stats quo. He doesnt want to spend more time there.

So why good luck? - do you think this child should be badgered down to agree? Or forced? Confused

50/50 is very rarely for the benefit for the child.

Original poster
chippe · 06/09/2021 23:40

@PeeAche @ffsgivemestrength thanks Thanks
Was starting to feel like the wicked step mum

OP posts:
Original poster
chippe · 06/09/2021 23:41

@Evesgarden he likes the status quote as it's all he knows

OP posts:
Aimee1987 · 06/09/2021 23:42

@evesgarden actually numerous studies in Scandinavian countries where 50/50 is far more common show that the detrimental impact of being from a split home is reduced in kids where they spend equal quantity of time with both parents.
If you live close enough for the kids to truly live between the two houses then it is most definetly in the best I interest of the child.

ffsgivemestrength · 06/09/2021 23:42

@Evesgarden because op doesn't say DSS doesn't want more time, just that he's happy at the moment, so what makes you think he wouldn't be happy to spend more time with his dad building the relationship even more?

I'm saying good luck because the ex clearly is goi g to make it difficult for him to have equal contact with his son. It really pisses me off that so many mums on here seem to forget that children have 2 parents and dads should have as much right to a relationship with their child as mum.

PeeAche · 06/09/2021 23:45

[quote chippe]**@PeeAche* @ffsgivemestrength* thanks Thanks
Was starting to feel like the wicked step mum [/quote]
If ever you feel the need to feel like the wicked step mum, just pop on over to Mumsnet for some self flagellation!

Doyoumind · 06/09/2021 23:46

It's not all he knows. It would be all he knows if he lived full time with his mum and never saw his dad. But he lives part time with his dad, knows what that's like, and doesn't want it to increase.

Evesgarden · 06/09/2021 23:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

NoYOUbekind · 06/09/2021 23:51

How much of this 50/50 time will be spent with his father and how much will be spent with you doing the childcare (that DH previously 'couldn't manage)?

I think that's the key question really, Contact is for the child/parent relationship, not for the child to form bonds with a step parent, no matter how lovely they are.

Evesgarden · 07/09/2021 00:01

[quote ffsgivemestrength]@Evesgarden because op doesn't say DSS doesn't want more time, just that he's happy at the moment, so what makes you think he wouldn't be happy to spend more time with his dad building the relationship even more?

I'm saying good luck because the ex clearly is goi g to make it difficult for him to have equal contact with his son. It really pisses me off that so many mums on here seem to forget that children have 2 parents and dads should have as much right to a relationship with their child as mum. [/quote]
Saying he is happy at the moment makes it very clear he doesn't want to stay more. He is nine, he has obviously been asked multiple time and OP is still getting the same answer - he is happy as its is. So they are now thinking about ignoring how he feels and going to the courts anyway.

And yes the ex probably will make it difficult because they are badgering him now to stay more when he has repeatedly said he doesn't want to!

Pushing this now is selfish, this is all about how the dad (or OP feels) he is nine, that boat has sailed. The lad is happy in his life and the rate of contact, why do these two adults think they can change that to suit them?

I can assure you most mums dont forget the kids have two dads! There was a huge rise in 50/50 contact when CM got dropped, leaving SM with the responsibility of looking after kids they didn't really want to look after whilst their dads were at work.

Evesgarden · 07/09/2021 00:02

OP are you pregnant or trying for a baby?

BungleandGeorge · 07/09/2021 00:07

Poor kid, I can’t see how this is in his best interests given that he’s said no. You’ve been ‘floating the idea’ for months?? Honestly I think you need to stop before you damage the relationship with him. Make him aware that you’d like extra time with him if he changes his mind but that you respect his opinion and then leave it there. I don’t believe a court will change the contact order after all this time and destabilise the child without the child wanting the change.

Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 00:17

If you're wanting the child more and have a good case, does it really matter about the CMS payments letter. Even if you did this to reduce CMS payments, as long as the child benefits, what does it matter? I think its perfectly understandable to want to have more hours as the child gets older and as long as your husband is a good parent, then surely a boy will benefit from having his father in his life more often. I'm pretty sure if the sexes were reversed, people on here would think a mother should have more access as a daughter got older.
As for the child saying no, who knows why he's said that. Maybe it's his mother talking, maybe he's scared of change, but none of you will know unless you give it a go. It might turn out he loves spending more time with his dad.

Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 00:23

@Evesgarden
"Also dont over estimate how he feels about you. He might have a good time when he visits and be polite and happy with you - but that's all he is doing visiting and being polite. Then he gets to go home to his mum."

Honestly, does it give you some sort of buzz to say nasty things to people? And how do you know any if it is true? The child might be living in mortal fear of his mother and be too scared to say he he'd prefer to live with his dad.