Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Step-parenting

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

Original poster

Advice re holiday/passport

79 replies

AndSoFinally · 05/09/2021 18:38

My DP has a court ordered CAO. This includes being able to take SS out of the country for a two week holiday and that his passport should be made available in advance. It stated for 2019 and 2020 that the holiday should be in the 6 week summer holidays but doesn't specify after 2020.

We want to take him abroad next Easter before the school holidays. He is 8 so not doing exams or anything. His mum is refusing to let us, first saying she feels the country is too dangerous (it's not, it's an all inclusive resort in Spain) and then saying she doesn't believe in taking him out of school (although his current attendance is around 80% for last year, not including any COVID absence, because she has random days where she just doesn't take him in).

What would be our next steps here? Is it back to court? If we're unable to get a court date before we'd reasonably have to book the holiday, would we have any comeback on her for the cost of the holiday if she prevented him going? Is there any way to find out whether he even has a passport? There's every possibility he doesn't so we could just apply for one

Any advice appreciated

OP posts:
Miniroofbox · 06/09/2021 07:49

Why can’t you do a holiday in the uk during school holidays and take them all?

DifferentHair · 06/09/2021 08:27

'If the consensus is the best thing to do is leave him behind then I'll accept that. It just feels unfair is all'

Lol, that's what you took from the thread? That you should leave him behind?

I think the consensus was to employ some flexibility and common sense to your holiday plans, and book one that works for your family.

But if what you heard was that the 'best thing' is to leave your DSS behind and fly off---- without him, then by all means.

Enjoy 'experiencing another culture' from your resort. Grin

Pebbledashery · 06/09/2021 08:28

The consensus isn't leave him behind. The consensus is don't go on holiday in term time and prioritise his education.

StarshipsAreMeantToFly · 06/09/2021 08:30

If the consensus is the best thing to do is leave him behind then I'll accept that. It just feels unfair is all well yeah it is a bit unfair but you're the ones making it so it's not really right for him to go.

I just don't get how dad can be so aparantly concerned about his school attendance and then be considering court so he can take him out of school.

Don't blame this on his mum either, you'll have to be honest with him and say you've chosen to go during school time as want to go abroad instead of staying in the country and doing something in the holidays he can join in with and he can't come as dad is concerned about his attendance.

StarshipsAreMeantToFly · 06/09/2021 08:35

Why is it now or never? Is someone ill?

aSofaNearYou · 06/09/2021 08:56

@Pebbledashery

The consensus isn't leave him behind. The consensus is don't go on holiday in term time and prioritise his education.
It's the consensus for some of us, tbf.
sassbott · 06/09/2021 08:57
  1. absolutely no court in this land is going to award holiday dates that mean a child misses school. I’m a little thrown that you even seem to think this is a possibility.
  2. 80% attendance is woefully low and that will have significantly impacted his education. I wouldn’t even contemplate this and in his mums shoes, would be refusing too.
  3. I appreciate that this is the only way that you can afford your holiday and you have my sympathies - welcome to everyone else’s world. My kids and I haven’t been abroad for a summer hol in years (for precisely this reason). You are of course fully able to make the decisions re your children and joint children but that doesn’t mean the mother is being unreasonable to refuse this.

Are your own children also missing school?

Original poster
AndSoFinally · 06/09/2021 10:03

Yes mine will be missing school, but their attendance otherwise is excellent (obviously bar unexpected illness) so they'll still end up with 96-97% attendance.

It just feels hypocritical for mum to say she's so concerned about attendance but then allow it to fall to 80% for no good reason. I think DP saying he's concerned about missing 8 weeks of school for no reason is very different to missing 1 week for a holiday.

There will be other opportunities for SS to come on holiday, but they will likely be the odd weekend in Prestatyn or similar. This will be the only holiday abroad we take so the only chance to go on a plane etc. I appreciate it is perfectly possible to grow into a fully functional adult without this experience though!

I will still be taking my DC, yes.

It really is the only time we can go abroad, for many reasons, I'm not just being stubborn. If there was a work around we'd do it but there isn't.

I will be mega pissed off if his DM suddenly announces she's taking him on holiday during term time though (I wouldn't be remotely surprised if she does this!). I genuinely wouldn't mind if I really believed she actually held the concerns she claims she does, but I really think she's just refusing because we'd be doing something she couldn't. That's probably unreasonable of me but this is just the latest in a line of many decisions she's made that just feel punitive rather than in his best interests (although I can see this appears to be in his best interests on the surface because of school).

I do appreciate the perspective though, it's very difficult to be objective when emotion is involved and there are so many people's interests to try and weigh up. Thank you all for your input

OP posts:
aSofaNearYou · 06/09/2021 10:15

For what it's worth I agree with everything you said there OP. Not that he should miss another week of school because he probably can't afford to, but I think you've got the measure of the situation right.

Woodmarsh · 06/09/2021 10:46

You are being completely unreasonable and yes lots of kids don't go abroad as kids, even some adults don't, stop being ridiculous and prioritise his education for goodness sake

Polmuggle · 06/09/2021 11:07

OP listen to what people are saying.

The FAIR thing to do would be to book a more affordable trip during the school holidays that he can go on.

That might mean a U.K. break. It might mean abroad somewhere 'safer'. It might mean going abroad but not all inclusive as it's more expensive.

Don't just throw your toys out the pram and go without him. It's a shit situation but you know that there are alternatives

StarshipsAreMeantToFly · 06/09/2021 13:22

It just feels hypocritical for mum to say she's so concerned about attendance but then allow it to fall to 80% for no good reason. this does seem hypocritical yes.

I think DP saying he's concerned about missing 8 weeks of school for no reason is very different to missing 1 week for a holiday. Ah I see what you're saying now yes. If there's something planned that means there will be an absence that is a bit different to just randomly skiving off. But unfortunately I think as he has missed so much time he does need to have that week in school. If his mum decides to take him out that week anyway then it will be annoying but it won't be your DH who is impacting on his education.

I'd stop thinking about if it's fair or not in this situation. You've both decided the only thing you can do is go in term time. You both don't feel you can compromise on this. So I think its either do the holiday without him or find a different holiday that he can come on (you say there isn't one so that rules out this option).

It's not fair but he might learn that he needs to be in school this way?

Tattler2 · 06/09/2021 13:25

My kids have traveled extensively both with their father and with me. We have never taken them out of school to go on any elective vacation. They have traveled through many states and have been to Europe, Asia, Mexico, and various Caribbean Islands and never has it been necessary to have them miss school.

I agree that travel is broadening and if and when possible kids should have other culture experiences, but none of these things need come at the expense of an already compromised school attendance record.

What exactly is this child going to experience that can't happen at a later date? I doubt that his younger half siblings are pushing for a trip to Spain and if his step siblings are close in age, they too probably just want to go on a vacation and would find a later but more extensive vacation closer to home just as acceptable.

This sounds more like a vacation that you want to take. Why not make it an adults only vacation and hire a sitter or family member to stay with the kids for a week. Your savings in air fare alone would probably cover the cost of a sitter.

There are probably not many young kids thinking that want they really need or want is a trip to Spain. Even though my kids get to travel often and to many places, generally what they will on there own ask for is a trip to go skiing with their father, and most often that does not require more than an hours drive or a very short plane ride

GettingItOutThere · 06/09/2021 14:24

wtf no! i agree with his mum!

he does not "need" a holiday abroad, uk breaks with suffice. Many kids have holidays abroad after 18!

80% attendance is terrible, I would be focusing on improving this by not having any more days off

timeisnotaline · 06/09/2021 14:28

and experience another culture.
An all inclusive resort is not experiencing another culture GrinGrin

SandyY2K · 06/09/2021 18:36

You guys will just have to go without him this time. It's best not to take him out of school and it's not worth the battle with his mum.

Even with school holiday prices, are you really saying you can't save to have a holiday abroad during the school holidays in 5 years time? While SS is still a child?

insidenumber5 · 06/09/2021 21:24

If you can afford court fees, you can afford a holiday in the half term.

Nametroubleagain · 06/09/2021 22:00

@AndSoFinally sorry but I agree with most on here that you should go on a holiday that you can afford to take all children on in school holidays.

Your dss is a part of your family and should be treated as so. You obviously don’t see eye to eye with his dm and feel her parenting isn’t a good as yours. Maybe instead of leaving him out further, be the extra support he needs for family life and the future if you feel his own dm isn’t up to the job.

How does you dh feel about the idea of not taking his ds? Is he really ok with that? If my dp was happy going away with my dc and not his own then he wouldn’t be the step dad I wanted around. If he can care so little about his own child, he couldn’t possibly care about mine like I’d want him too.
You were probably already aware that his dm would be awkward and booking a holiday in school time knowing that he already has poor attendance seems a little selfish.
His dm has every right to be worried about where you’re going, this is her child.

If you can’t afford school holidays this year and insist it needs to be all inclusive in Spain, then you should book for the following year and pay monthly. Or go self catering on a budget (the children will learn more of the culture this way to)

Hapoydayz · 06/09/2021 22:07

I don't think anyone needs to be a dick and say he can't experience a different culture at an all inclusive place as you can leave the hotel and it is still a different country. However, the taking a child out of school is also a dick move. Children have missed enough of their education and on top of that having an 80% attendance is bad. The father is equally responsible for his poor attendance and you want to add to this with an extra week off?! You can't blame his ex and then do the same thing.

Starlightstarbright1 · 06/09/2021 22:20

Take dm motives out of it.

His Df should want him in school as much as possible..

I think you just want the holiday and are finding a way to justify it.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 07/09/2021 21:13

Why is it the only chance to go? Surely if you have x amount of money for a term time holiday you can just save a little while longer?

BananaPB · 08/09/2021 15:37

If he's going to go to court, it needs to be to help remedy the 80% attendance issues. 3 years ago my son had that sort of attendance when he was off school for 6 weeks for health reasons.

A court isn't going to support a term-time holiday for those reasons.

RedMarauder · 08/09/2021 16:23

Your steps are to find a holiday that you can afford for the entire family within the school holidays whether it is in the UK or abroad

As PPs said no Court will side with you to take a child out of school to an all inclusive resort especially when the child concerned has very poor school attendance.

Parents who take their children out of school for cultural reasons has to show the school that the child's education won't suffer. I have friends' who are a couple who have done this. In my friends' case their children normally have 99%+ attendance in their UK school, one of the couple is a former school teacher and the children have extra lessons in the UK in the year.

Lulu1919 · 08/09/2021 16:42

@SoupDragon

You don't "experience another culture" in an all inclusive 😂
This !!
CeeceeBloomingdale · 08/09/2021 16:54

I think you are are being really mean, it’s not now or never, save up and go next year in school holidays. He’s missed enough school and that this is also his fathers responsibility, he can’t just blame the kids mother for it. I think you are being incredibly selfish as it’s what you want to do, and defensive as her opinion is the opposite to yours.