Is it okay to admit that you'd leave if DSC ever had to come live with you full time?

[JustGreatThatIs]

Whilst I do like my DSC, I just don't think I'd enjoy a life where they lived with us all of the tjme and so I believe that whilst I'd give it my best shot, it could inevitably lead to the end of me and DH.

I would look at this up front as a situation with a distinct possibility

Someone posted the mortality rate of women young enough to have children up thread. Anecdotal evidence of two tragic cases is not enough to make the mother dying a distinct possibility. It's a very small possibility.

And whilst it's not right for anyone, step parents included, to be cruel to a child or stand in the way of that child's relationship with their parent, the ultimate responsibility for not allowing that to happen is with their parent. If they allow it to happen then they are a pretty shitty parent.

I think some people’s assessment of the reality of the situation should the children’s mother die is less about the likelihood of that happening and more about the severity of the consequences should that happen.

It would unremittingly tragic and emotionally damaging if children lost first their biological mother and felt responsible for the break-up of their surviving parent’s relationship.

Basically the people with the least responsibility for the situation will both bear the biggest brunt of it and feel the most responsible.

If you get involved with someone with children, it’s always possible that their children might come to live with them.

In reality though why on earth would the children know they were responsible? Unless you sat them down and said 'now you're living with us I'm miserable so I'm leaving', I imagine the conversation would be the same as if parents just naturally grew apart and separated.

If my DSC came to live with us full-time, the likely reason would be that (god forbid) their mom had passed away. I think the brutal reality of dealing of living with 3 bereaved, distraught children would be incredibly difficult for all of us. My primary concerns would be how my DP would parent them - he tends towards Disney at times, so my fear would be that all rules/consequences would go out of the window. In attempts to be kind and tread around their upset, the possibility could be we just end up in a house full of resentment where children are allowed to do as they please because of a horrific situation. All our lives would change immensely, we would have to alter work and really honestly figure out who would have responsibility for the day to day work, of which there is a lot.

There is a lot of "what iffery" and "you knew what you were getting into" on the SP board. It is just so much more nuanced than that in these relationships. I imagine that a lot of people who are up in arms about a stepmom setting boundaries to protect her mental health would be the first ones to be setting similar boundaries of their own if it applied to their DP's elderly parents moving in and requiring full time care? Not the same? Isn't it? You knew he had parents when you married him...

@StrawberryPuff

I think some people’s assessment of the reality of the situation should the children’s mother die is less about the likelihood of that happening and more about the severity of the consequences should that happen.

It would unremittingly tragic and emotionally damaging if children lost first their biological mother and felt responsible for the break-up of their surviving parent’s relationship.

Basically the people with the least responsibility for the situation will both bear the biggest brunt of it and feel the most responsible.

If you get involved with someone with children, it’s always possible that their children might come to live with them.

What you're basically saying is that you shouldn't do something because IF something you think is a very remote possibility happens, it COULD cause your SC more pain IF handled in a particularly bad and obvious (to them) way. That is just a very long shot on which to base your life.

The idea that if an evil SM hadn't been whispering in his ear then this guy would have been a good dad is just ridiculous. He obviously isn't a good dad in the first place if that's all it takes to abandon his child

The point still stands. You shouldn’t behave badly just because you can. Because they’re not your children, not your responsibility. My children have had several ‘step mums’ who’s behaviour has caused lasting trauma. They’ll figure it out as they get older - that ultimately, their father should have dealt with it - but no child deserves to be treated badly by an adult because they stand in the way of someone’s perceived happiness. You don’t throw away children’s prized possessions, their clothes, take their money from them, tell them to fuck off back to their bitch of a mother….and get to say ‘not my responsibility’. Step parents are just as accountable for their actions, their words, as any other adult in a child’s life.

@JustGreatThatIs

In reality though why on earth would the children know they were responsible? Unless you sat them down and said 'now you're living with us I'm miserable so I'm leaving', I imagine the conversation would be the same as if parents just naturally grew apart and separated.

Exactly. Children sometimes feel to blame for their parents separating in any scenario, and that needs to be handled sensitively and they need to be reassured consistently that they are not to blame.

I guess the real difference would be that a step-parent would likely leave their lives completely, whereas in a parental split they still have regular contact with both parents (most of the time). Which could serve to 'prove' that they were the problem, in their minds.

But the parent would need to do what they can to reassure them that it's not about them.

Tbh I do completely agree that a step-parent leaving following the loss of a parent, even if not in the immediate aftermath, could be hugely hurtful for a child. But I also couldn't expect someone to sacrifice their own welfare in order to prevent this happening when they don't have that shield of unconditional love from the child being their own.

@Getawaywithit Whether or not the point stands or not, it's still completely irrelevant to this thread. Nobody is defending their right to be awful to their SC. Just to leave if they are unhappy.

@Getawaywithit

The idea that if an evil SM hadn't been whispering in his ear then this guy would have been a good dad is just ridiculous. He obviously isn't a good dad in the first place if that's all it takes to abandon his child

The point still stands. You shouldn’t behave badly just because you can. Because they’re not your children, not your responsibility. My children have had several ‘step mums’ who’s behaviour has caused lasting trauma. They’ll figure it out as they get older - that ultimately, their father should have dealt with it - but no child deserves to be treated badly by an adult because they stand in the way of someone’s perceived happiness. You don’t throw away children’s prized possessions, their clothes, take their money from them, tell them to fuck off back to their bitch of a mother….and get to say ‘not my responsibility’. Step parents are just as accountable for their actions, their words, as any other adult in a child’s life.

Of course you shouldn't do any of that, I don't think a single person has said that's okay.

But you also can't say 'if it weren't for my SM doing X or Y, my Dad would have been a good parent'.

Erm no, if your Dad is willing to accept your step mother treating you that way then he is very obviously not a good parent. Same goes for your kids father by the sounds of it. If I did any of that to my husband's children, he'd tell me where to go.

I do think the root blame lies with the wrong person in these type of discussions. That isn't to say I think a step parent who treats the children badly has no blame whatsoever but if my Dad had stood by whilst a woman treated me that way, the majority of my anger would be with him. I'd think his wife were just not a very nice person but at the end of the day, my Dad is the one who is supposed to love and protect me above all else, what some random horrible woman did to me would be minor in comparison to the hurt of my Dad allowing it.

@JustGreatThatIs

I do think the root blame lies with the wrong person in these type of discussions. That isn't to say I think a step parent who treats the children badly has no blame whatsoever but if my Dad had stood by whilst a woman treated me that way, the majority of my anger would be with him. I'd think his wife were just not a very nice person but at the end of the day, my Dad is the one who is supposed to love and protect me above all else, what some random horrible woman did to me would be minor in comparison to the hurt of my Dad allowing it.

Hmm you'd think, but I think the SP will always get the blame because it's easier to blame that 'outsider' than admit that your own parent let you down so badly.

And whilst it's not right for anyone, step parents included, to be cruel to a child or stand in the way of that child's relationship with their parent, the ultimate responsibility for not allowing that to happen is with their parent. If they allow it to happen then they are a pretty shitty parent.

Yup. This.I would never ever stand in the way of the relationship my partner wants with his children. His kids, his life, his choices.
I give him that same respect regards how involved he wishes to be with my children - it doesn’t faze me in the slightest if it is minimal.

However, as an adult I also have choices and those choices are that I do not wish to be actively involved in his children’s upbringing. A change in circumstances wouldn’t change that.

In my view, both of us can move on / end the relationship if it no longer works for us.
Bluntly (and maybe because this is I instigated my divorce), the only relationship that I would have been prepared to make the ultimate sacrifices for were my marriage to the father of my children.

I didn’t make them and chose to divorce. Is it really too much of a reach to then realise that I’m hardly likely to sacrifice my happiness for someone else’s children?

It’s not rocket science really is it?

& @Beautifulday345 I would argue that you are writing some of the greatest load of shit I have ever read!
It takes a lot to get me very riled up online but your brand of judgmental claptrap is one of those things.
I am projecting nothing - maybe look to your own reasons as you why you believe that marriage is so embedded with fully taking on a parenting role that most likely is not actually wanted by either parents or children.

@JustGreatThatIs so true! I became a SC in my very late teens when I was just about to leave home. My 'SD' wasn't a very nice man and a bit weird (in general!), and he was, over the years, quite horrible to me in a very snidey underhand comments kind of way. Talking down my achievements, ignoring me when I called him out on racist or sexist behaviour, comparing me unfavourably to his own children at every available opportunity, pointing out when he thought I'd put on weight, calling me a spinster in my 30s because I hadn't married. Nothing drastic or that I couldn't cope with, not not very nice nonetheless. DM did nothing - never pulled him up on his behaviour or stuck up for me 'oh he's only joking love'. He's dead now and I barely give him a second thought, but I think a lot less of my DM for choosing him in the first place and condoning his twatty behaviour.

No @aSofaNearYou I’m saying you should take the severity of the consequences into account as well as the likelihood. They should also take the vulnerability of those potentially affected into account.

In assessing risk, most people don’t take the severity into account adequately.

They also don’t take vulnerability into account. The same consequences for someone vulnerable and someone resilient can have very different effects.

An adult experiencing rejection in a personal relationship has very different options and feelings than a recently bereaved young child.

I am angry beyond description at what's happened to my son so my post will reflect that I'm afraid. My own view is that unless you are prepared to take them on, then you simply don't get involved with somebody with children. I realise that I am in a minority with that opinion and I am probably damaged by my own experiences.

My ex-h left us for OW when DS was 2. I was an older mum and DS has autism. OW proceeded to treat DS like shit, stigmatising him for being autistic, pushing him around, telling people to ignore him when he was at their home. She was jealous and hated that we had a child. A late middle aged woman behaving like a spoilt brat. My ex did ZERO to address her behaviour. That's on him.

Last year I was diagnosed with breast cancer at the start of the pandemic. The only person I could legally rely on to help me while I went into hospital for urgent surgery was my ex. OW, on hearing this, decided that my son was no longer welcome leaving me begging friends for help on the day of the first lockdown when I had my surgery. He was just 9 years old, a little boy with a poorly mum. She made all sorts of excuses but ultimately was threatened by an ex wife with cancer. The woman is an absolute cunt.

Rather than deal with this, my ex sided with her. While I went through some pretty harsh treatment last summer, I was having to attend online court hearings regarding "contact". Cafcass finally recommended no further contact and a prohibited steps order against OW. She has damaged my son so badly that he has had to see a psychologist. It has taken 6 years for the court to accept this. They have now moved 700 miles away with no forwarding address or contact details. My son is distraught at losing his Dad.

The fucking witch knew exactly what she was doing, she has spent years trying sever my sons relationship with his father. Ultimately, neither of them know if I have recovered (I have) but God forbid anything happens to me, my son no longer has the other parent. I simply cannot get my head around it. This woman is a mother yet she treated my son like that. Why on Earth would you get involved with somebody if you know you are going to hate their children that much or not be prepared to step up if tragedy happens?

Again, I accept my ex is at fault here as he valued his cock, her money and the lifestyle she can give him more than he values our child. I just don't get it 🤷🏻‍♀️

@TheFormidableMrsC

I am angry beyond description at what's happened to my son so my post will reflect that I'm afraid. My own view is that unless you are prepared to take them on, then you simply don't get involved with somebody with children. I realise that I am in a minority with that opinion and I am probably damaged by my own experiences.

My ex-h left us for OW when DS was 2. I was an older mum and DS has autism. OW proceeded to treat DS like shit, stigmatising him for being autistic, pushing him around, telling people to ignore him when he was at their home. She was jealous and hated that we had a child. A late middle aged woman behaving like a spoilt brat. My ex did ZERO to address her behaviour. That's on him.

Last year I was diagnosed with breast cancer at the start of the pandemic. The only person I could legally rely on to help me while I went into hospital for urgent surgery was my ex. OW, on hearing this, decided that my son was no longer welcome leaving me begging friends for help on the day of the first lockdown when I had my surgery. He was just 9 years old, a little boy with a poorly mum. She made all sorts of excuses but ultimately was threatened by an ex wife with cancer. The woman is an absolute cunt.

Rather than deal with this, my ex sided with her. While I went through some pretty harsh treatment last summer, I was having to attend online court hearings regarding "contact". Cafcass finally recommended no further contact and a prohibited steps order against OW. She has damaged my son so badly that he has had to see a psychologist. It has taken 6 years for the court to accept this. They have now moved 700 miles away with no forwarding address or contact details. My son is distraught at losing his Dad.

The fucking witch knew exactly what she was doing, she has spent years trying sever my sons relationship with his father. Ultimately, neither of them know if I have recovered (I have) but God forbid anything happens to me, my son no longer has the other parent. I simply cannot get my head around it. This woman is a mother yet she treated my son like that. Why on Earth would you get involved with somebody if you know you are going to hate their children that much or not be prepared to step up if tragedy happens?

Again, I accept my ex is at fault here as he valued his cock, her money and the lifestyle she can give him more than he values our child. I just don't get it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Your poor son, who on earth does that.

My own and friends experience with step parents are all negative. Too many put their own wants first over the existing children and many allow their children less and less contact as it’s suits the new partner. I’d never want a step parent in my children’s life.

@TheFormidableMrsC

I guess anger is too weak a description of how you really must feel. Beyond betrayed?

Where does this leave you legally? Can you now give Guardianship rights to a sibling/friend?

Your ex cannot vanish into the ether. A private detective can find him for you, if that's what you want. Do you get maintenance, or has he ceased that too?

But the hard reality is how many people would be able to put their own happiness and welfare aside to live in a situation they were utterly miserable in, in order to protect the feelings of children that aren't theirs?

But that’s really what you do need to establish up front. Fair enough some people may ask themselves that question, and on thorough soul searching believe that they would be fine with it. Then on reality it turns out they are not and it is unworkable for them. That’s a completely different scenario than the OP and many others where they know up front it wouldn’t work and they would be out the door (albeit with a little time passing to try and save face somewhat). If you know that up front then proceeding seems mad as it’s always a possibility, basically they are just crossing their fingers it doesn’t happen but if it does then ultimately the losers are the kids. It would be so much fairer if they knew this up front to bow out in the case of this eventuating.

@StrawberryPuff

No *@aSofaNearYou* I’m saying you should take the severity of the consequences into account as well as the likelihood. They should also take the vulnerability of those potentially affected into account.

In assessing risk, most people don’t take the severity into account adequately.

They also don’t take vulnerability into account. The same consequences for someone vulnerable and someone resilient can have very different effects.

An adult experiencing rejection in a personal relationship has very different options and feelings than a recently bereaved young child.

I could take into account the severity of us all being turned into frogs, too, but it doesn't make any difference unless it is likely. The chances of my DSSs mum dying and the subsequent split with my DP, which would likely not happen immediately afterwards, being handled so poorly that DSS blamed himself, are just so incredibly small, that yes, both DP and I did not decide to end our loving, happy relationship just in case it happens. Perhaps some people rule things out more readily due to the tiny chance something could go wrong, but I'd never leave the house if I lived like that, it's not for me.

I have 3 now adult step children. They have all lived with us either from the get go (eldest age 12) to moving in (age 11, 3 years later and age 12 a few years later again). Our two children were born before my second step child moved in.

They were welcome on a practical basis and there being no other workable solution (due to circumstances being unsatisfactory at their mother's house) but it was never a pleasant or enjoyable experience. It massively affected our (my and DH's) relationship at times. It has left a very sour taste and my memories of my kids' early years are blighted by events.

I would strongly recommend no young woman gets involved with a man with a prior family situation. I was naive.

As a consequence I realised that should my relationship ever break down then I would never expect a new man to tolerate life with my own kids. It wouldn't have been fair on anyone. That fortunately hasn't happened and I will be forever grateful.

I wonder how happy the children are when they share a home with a SM that essentially doesn’t give a fig about them (yes yes you have a great relationship. But come on - you’d actually end a marriage / live with partner at the idea of them living with you. Can’t be that great)

I couldn’t do it. No way. So I won’t get in a relationship with someone with children of an age where they could move in. Mainly because i don’t want MY children to have to share their Home with my love interest and his sprogs
My point is - I wonder how the kids feel in these scenarios where step parents are some kind of benevolent (as they depict themselves) presence

When they stay with the non RP I meant to say rather than share a home

@TheFormidableMrsC to you. I’m so glad to hear you’ve made a recovery. I’m sorry for all that has happened, that sounds horrific.

To sort of add some context, I would say that the majority of posters here are not saying that they would ever stand in the way of their partner/ husband needing to parent FT. I certainly wouldn’t. As I said before, my partner is contemplating going for more shared access and he has my full support to do what he thinks is best. My caveat is that I won’t be there to help (due to my own pressures). And frankly, if he wants more contact with his children, he’s the one who should step up to ensure he can meet that commitment, it’s not his partners job to fulfil / enable that. If he cannot do it himself then he shouldn’t go for it. I do 60% of parenting without his help, I don’t think it’s beyond the pale that he should be able to do the same.

Now, back to your situation. Your ex is beyond awful. I would not tolerate any partner treating my children poorly. I would not expect my partner to tolerate anyone treating his children poorly. What you describe is out and out abuse.
Again, in my mind that is very different to my saying ‘you need to raise your child(ren)’ and take the bulk of responsibility, I cannot do it.’

I would step to one side and support my partner as best I could if that happened to him. But I wouldn’t step up and become a mum / raise his children.

I couldn’t be with any person who did what your ex has done to you and your DS.