Any way of saying this without sounding like a cow?

[HennyK]

Whenever we decide to do something for the day with our joint DC when DSC aren't here, DH will 9 times out of 10 try and get in touch with their Mum to see if they can come with us.

We live close by to their Mum so it's easy enough to pick up on way out anywhere. She doesn't always say yes because they are sometimes doing things themselves but most of the time will say that's fine.

But I feel like sometimes I would just like to be able to do something just us, without having to faff around waiting for a reply, will they / won't they type situation.

We do lots of things together when they are here. Is it unreasonable to wish sometimes, even if they technically could come with us if we asked, we could just go on our own?!

And is there any way for me to say this to DH without sounding like a cow?

@NotNowPlzz

So if you had a child from a previous relationship you'd be really happy with your DP saying you don't want them to come because he wants to spend time 'just us' meaning you, him and your child together?

If he said to me that he feels I don't spend any quality time with my younger DC and they need some 1 on 1 time with me then yes, I'd take that on board and not jump to the assumption that he hates my other kids. I'd probably feel pretty bad actually that he needed to bring to my attention that it's okay for my younger kids to enjoy a walk with me where they are my focus and I'm not off separating myself with my older kids every time we go somewhere. Maybe that's just me.

@NotNowPlzz

I am a stepmother and I have a daughter from a previous relationship. As a person who was a stepchild and felt left out and devalued by my stepmother, I'm doing my best to make sure that never happens to my stepchild. Just because the stepchild has another mother it doesn't mean they don't need or want more mothering. And the 'just us' language I find very exclusionary. When you're in it for the long haul with someone whatever you do will have an emotional effect on their children.

How do you word it though? I'm referring to time with just DH and our DC, how would you like me to word that?

It's a walk....

Are people actually listening to themselves? Can't go on a walk without your step children when they are at their Mum's because it's exclusionary. Jesus christ.

I'm a step child myself. If my mum or dad went on a walk when I was with the other I'd precisely give zero shits. If they'd gone to a theme park or something maybe... But a walk? Really?

And no I would not care at all if DH said he was going to take the older DC somewhere alone. I'd think that was nice for them. And I suspect most people here wouldn't have a problem and would encourage that also. But our DC obviously can't even go on a walk alone with him 🤣

The OP can't put her whole life on pause because her husband feels guilty about not living with his older children. It's perfectly alright to go for a walk or out for lunch with just the child you have with you at the time.
This would also piss me off if I was the mum.

I do wonder if people actually do this themselves.

What do poster's with multiple children do if say one is at a friend's house? Do they sit silently in a room and refuse to leave the house with the other DC until their sibling is back?

I thought it was fairly standard in families for children to do things alone with their parent every now and then?

OP, I've got 4 DC - DH and I often do things with them individually. They are different ages, have different interests and they need one to one time with their parents.

@NotNowPlzz

So if you had a child from a previous relationship you'd be really happy with your DP saying you don't want them to come because he wants to spend time 'just us' meaning you, him and your child together?

Let's put it more accurately. If I had a child from a previous relationship, I would be happy for them not to be on all the everyday outings his dad's household goes on, yes, as this would be the time they were with me, the most important time to me.

I understand you’re cross OP, but you’ve also had some good advice and a lot of understanding on here. Have you decided how you’ll tackle this?

You’re spending your time trying to convince random people on here. Just speak to your husband. Relationships go wrong because of lack of communication and the last thing the kids need is another broken home, especially his older kids who have been through it once already.

@CanICelebrate

To answer your question, I don’t think there is any way of saying that without sounding like a cow.

Unfortunately I agree with this. In the 5 years from when my first DC was born, to when I left my EXDP, my 2 DC had zero days out with me and DP together as a family on non-DSS contact days.

Anytime we were going to go out, DP had to ring his EXDW to see if DSS could come too, same as yours. My DC couldn't even be taken for a haircut, and we weren't able to have takeaways initially, lest DSS might feel we'd left him out. Bearing in mind we were on an EOW schedule, meaning just 4 days in a month that we could do activities as a family. It was really frustrating as it felt like someone I couldn't see was controlling whether I could go out with my own family for the day. The reality was that it was EXDP's NRP guilt clouding our every move.

If we were doing big days out, like going to the theatre or a theme park or similar, it was me who would organise and pay for the whole lot, as well as me actively checking to see if DSS would be able to attend beforehand and arranging tickets for him too, so it wasn't as if I was actively trying to exclude him.

Never mind that while DSS was with his DM she was taking him to McDonalds, Pizza Express, toy shopping etc etc, this was all fine according to EXDP. If ever suggested a takeaway, I'd get "oh poor X will be missing out, let's wait until he is here" In the last year or so of the relationship, I would place orders myself and say to DP "let me know if you want anything" (he always did), rather than asking him beforehand.

I took a stand when my then 4 year old DS told me we couldn't go to the park when offered one day as we had to wait for DSS. This meant I ended up taking the DC out places by myself, which while it's nice, wasn't the family days I'd wanted. I felt like I was behaving as if I was a single mum, which I shouldn't have had to, given I wasn't one at the time (although I am now). I'd end up dragging one of my parents out with the DC if I really wanted company, but it's not the same as going with your DC's father.

There was a thread earlier this year about how resident DC lose out in a number of situations compared to non-resident DC. Yes resident DC have their parents living together, but if they're treated as second class citizens in their own home by their father, their sense of self-esteem will be shot to pieces. I could see this starting to happen to my DC, and I didn't like it one bit.

You have my sympathies OP, if your DH thought there was anything wrong with making arrangements like this, he wouldn't be doing it...

Yes, resident children have their parents living together, but if they're treated as second class citizens in their own home by their own father, their sense of self-esteem will be shot to pieces

Exactly. Its fine to argue that resident children see Dad all the time, but if treats/quality time aren't considered 'proper occasions' until the step children are present, then surely it will negatively impact on the resident children.

This is one of the reasons I didn't have a child with DH - life was just a complete circus with DSS, and the flippin' red carpet treatment that accompanied him, why bring a new baby into that? DH meant well, totally has his heart in the right place, but all the guilt around DSS really skewed his judgement.

"it's good if the older children get quality time with their father focussed on them, but it's bad and exclusionary if the younger children get the exact same thing"

The real question of this thread is "is there any way of saying that without sounding like a cow?"

Completely.

"So what if you don't ever get any social time with just your dad? Your parents sleep in the same room"

"So what if dad takes his other children to things without you, but they have to come everywhere you go. Your parents still sleep in the same room"

"Those poor children that live in your house as much as they do with their mother. Roll out the red carpet. Because you get to see your dad as he grabs his toast on the way out to work 3 more times than they do"

The disadvantages of the resident DC are glaring. And it's utter bullshit to chant out this umbrella excuse "ah, but their parents are together" as if that in anyway justifies the inequality of them never having any time, just them, when the other children are so "entitled."

My DC couldn't even be taken for a haircut

I’ve seen this mentioned before on here. It might have been you or someone else. It really fucking annoys me how resident children are begrudged everything, even a bloody hair cut!

@funinthesun19 but it's fiiiiiiine though. Because both their parents live together.

Obviously.

I think there must be a way to say it without sounding like a cow. It’s probably to emphasise that the younger children don’t get to spend quality time with their dad - and by with I mean “actually interacting and being his focus” rather than “near”.

You can agree that all the kids need a mixture of normal time at home and outings, and time alone with their parents and with “everyone”. Your point is very much in line with that, because you’re saying the younger kids aren’t getting one element of that which is time alone with their parents. Probably best to have this convo when a non contact weekend is coming up (not on the day) and position it as “I’d really like to go for lunch on Saturday just the X of us, [younger kids] would love to spend some time with you/us, just the X of us, you don’t always get time to hang out with them properly during the week.”

I hear you OP, some people here are being deliberately obtuse. This isn’t a plot to keep the stepchildren from joining in or being welcome.

I am not a step parent but we have always done many things as a family and individually. When my DC were young we made active choices to treat them individually to trips out and this has developed as they’ve grown up. It fosters a better connection between everyone and both my DH and I understand our DC better because of those trips and time outs from the family unit.

My oldest DC and husband bond over football and I like theatre and trips out with them. We all read but like a mixture of genres and discuss those.

I think it’s very healthy to develop separate relationships and interests and I think your DH should be actively encouraged to pursue things with your youngest otherwise you will have this family divide of you and your DC vs the rest.

@Yoshinori

Think about it this way: if you were going somewhere nice, wouldn’t you want all your children with you?

It’s the same for him.

This

Those poor children that live in your house as much as they do with their mother. Roll out the red carpet. Because you get to see your dad as he grabs his toast on the way out to work 3 more times than they do

Indeed. The step children are still living and breathing and (hopefully) being loved and cared for, and having fun, when they're with their mother. So why do they need so much more than the resident children?

But the OP isn’t even talking about going somewhere “nice” she’s talking about a walk, feeding the ducks, a spontaneous coffee and cake. She isn’t trying to stop the stepchildren being included on a holiday or trip to the West End or a theme park!

@KatherineSiena

But the OP isn’t even talking about going somewhere “nice” she’s talking about a walk, feeding the ducks, a spontaneous coffee and cake. She isn’t trying to stop the stepchildren being included on a holiday or trip to the West End or a theme park!

Precisely.

Think about it this way: if you were going somewhere nice, wouldn’t you want all your children with you?

On holiday? Yes. On a walk or to a quick lunch? I can't say I'd be particularly bothered if one of my children were elsewhere and in fact I would quite value the time to spend with the other one on one. Do you never do that with your kids? How sad for them.

Thanks for all the helpful responses! I've not mentioned it yet but plan to next time it comes up/over the next non contact weekend (they are with us this weekend).

Its just pure guilt parenting on the part of the father. Most of us can se that.

I agree with AnneLovesGilbert a few posts in. He is interfering in the children’s time with their mother and whatever they are doing there, even if it is just playing at home. The children have a right to spend time with both parents, even if it is doing not very much.

I sort of understand it from the perspective of they are close by and it is nice to include everyone, but as a resident parent that would drive me rather crazy. It is fine for DC to be having some downtime in their own space, and it is not like their mother has them most of the time, it is a 50:50 split. It is also very ad hoc, which means there is no consistency for the DC. So I see where you are coming from, really.

DD’s dad does stuff with her half-siblings which doesn’t include her, but I do stuff with DD which of course his children are not included in. It is part and parcel of being in separated families, the children have different experiences. Of course DD is included for holidays, birthdays and so on. But part of being a separated parent is accepting that your children have lives which don’t always include you and that is fine, and they are not always involved with what you are doing, ditto.

Think about it this way: if you were going somewhere nice, wouldn’t you want all your children with you?

It all depends on what that is really doesn’t it?

A trip to feed the ducks and stopping off for an ice cream on a lovely sunny day is nice. So is a fun bike ride or a swimming trip and of course the park.

If I didn’t have all of my children with me because 1 or more were elsewhere in an environment where they are happy, safe and most likely having fun anyway, then I would absolutely take the children who are with me to do something nice. The others will get their turn.

When I was with my ex, exDSC used to go out with my exILs a lot and my children weren’t included. Quite honestly I thought nothing about going to nice places with just my children when dsc was with ILs or with mum, because I knew dsc had plenty going on in their life anyway with ILs without an invite from me.

ExILS are my children’s bio grandparents by the way.