A support cafe for any step mums out there!

[Bananasinpyjamas21]

If anyone wants it, and just wants to vent or get advice, feel free to post how you are getting on as a step mum. Summer holidays are coming up and this can be a tricky time for step mums.

I used to post on these boards a lot for advice, as I had a really difficult time as a step mum. I’ve got a much better perspective now. I know it’s hard for step kids too, and much of the problems lie with our husbands.

I had three DSDs who are now all in their 20s. We had one child together, and I have an older son. My marriage collapsed because of the stress, mainly due to one older DSDs resentment, his Exes resentment and DH not handling it well at all and blaming me for all. I made many mistakes, the biggest of which was moving into the ‘family home’. Never doing that again. I just remember how hard it was, so if anyone else is going through it… feel free to share.

But I remember being in the thick of it and having the same things said to me. It’s a very disorientating experience and exhausting to be on the receiving end of.

It’s like, you can see what’s happening. And you’re faced with a person (whom you love and who acts rationally everywhere else) who simply refuses / cannot see your point. That in itself makes you angrier/ more frustrated and the downward spiral continues.

The financial hearing will be stressing him out. From recollection I think you said this could be the first one. Financial hearings can be very drawn out, and require a lot of invasive disclosure. Are you aware that as a partner co-habitting with him, you could also be pulled into these proceedings with him?

@Sassbott that is exactly how it is you've nailed how I feel its disorientated and disjointed and confusing! He will impose the rules on my DC mainly my dd if he feels she breaking them (being rude for example is a prime one but I don't tolerate her being rude but am also aware at nearly 13 it's also her tone, delivery and hormones at times not that that makes an excuse!) he wants everyone to see how special his dd is backed up with the 'she's only here 4 nights a month' so he doesn't see the drama or harm in giving her everything if anythings ruined or broken its not a big deal as she's 'only 5' or because my children aren't perfect either - which I get but it's not a carte blanch to give her everything. We've been in the car before going for dinner and 5 mins before arrival she's asked for a drink and whereby I'll say no we're nearly there now you can have a drink at restaurant he will immediately pull over to get said drink. That sums it up.

Oh Vie doesn't like her, she's jealous, she never liked her always had an issue is so far from the truth. It's him he is the problem but the way it manifests I now cannot be around to watch it meaning I don't want tk be around dsd and actually have to now watch out for my own baby when he is here to ensure his safety from his dad and his lapse parenting of his dd. His dd said she didn't like a name we were mulling over and he said to me oh she doesn't like it your dd didn't like it either said to him well it isn't their baby so it reallt doesn't matter and it's none of their business to be perfectly honest as the 12 and 5 year old don't get to name the baby until they have one themselves he was baffled as to why as he dd didn't like the name why it would still be an option!

Madness the whole thing.

@Vie8126 I also found that spending more time with me and my DC exacerbated the situation.
My exp had EOW contact, whereas my Dc are with me 60% of the time. My exp had zero responsibility towards them, I co-parent very amicably with my exh and have paid help for afterschool pickup/ care and other stuff. So he was welcome to be at our home whenever he wanted, with zero responsibility. I saw it as something kind and thoughtful to do but I think being around that made it worse for him. Seeing me with my children having a happy, settled family life, with zero conflict between the parents highlighted exactly what he didn’t have.
He would then put immense pressure to want to recreate that ‘family’ and not just that, but over compensate when he had his children. Not able to see that actually it didn’t suit anyone but him.

His children don’t need another family and other children around, they need 121 time with him where he can give them the time, attention, treatment that they want. It’s time and attention that does not align with how I parent, and it’s not an over compensation I am going to entertain.

Mainly because it’s not good for the children. Second of all - it sets up a two tier system for the children and pits NR children against resident children. Thirdly, I refuse to run around after children cascading rose petals in their path. I didn’t do it for my own children (even though they too are the children of divorce) and I am damn well not about to do it for his. I steered my children through separation and their emotional upheavals but I still disciplined and had firm boundaries.

I saw him and his children a while back for a play date, he has been telling me his children are absolutely fine/ very settled etc etc. And they are doing ok, but watching the dynamic between them was fascinating, especially as I am emotionally removed from it. In the end it was highly entertaining to watch.

The children should be more than capable of stints of independent play. Or to be told to wait.
He sat down to drink a coffee/ read the papers and not even 2 minutes passed before his children came asking for his ‘help’. The help was in building a toy they are more than capable of doing, and if they’re not, they should be being encouraged to figure it out. He went and helped, then sat back down. 2 minutes later ‘daddyyyyy’. Off he went again. I watched with amusement as this went on for about 20 minutes. No word of a lie.

In his mind, he’s being a good parent. In my mind? He’s building a rod for his own back where all his children see is ‘my dad is there to run around after me and ensure I have fun.’

At that age my children would have been told to wait as I was having a drink and to try and work it out themselves. They would NOT have interrupted me every 2 minutes (otherwise they would have been told off). The message children get by my type of parenting? You and your toys are not the Center of the universe (and nor are your associated needs). Your parent is having a break (and needs one). So learn to be patient and wait, which eventually grows into having consideration for the needs and wants of others - not just ‘I want/ I need.’

I am very clear that my parenting is healthy. I am very clear that telling children ‘wait, no, not right now, figure it out for yourself’ are really good things to do.

I think NR parents struggle with the above. I think NR parents who live with resident children find it even harder and it kicks in an over compensation/ guilt mecanism. Which is then projected onto the partner.

None of this is anything to do with us. And everything to do with these NR parents sorting their heads out and coming to terms with the reality of how little they see their children. They need to accept the loss of the wider ‘family’ they see their partner have and decide to move forward as best they can.

A lot of people can’t. And I think a lot of men especially become stuck in this cycle of grief.

@Vie8126 I might sound mean but I would start taking things back of mine that he gives to her, probably with faux surprise such as "oh, I assume he only meant you could borrow this, since he knows it belongs to me/DD". I would not stand for that. Why do you not say "no, you can buy me another", when he has the cheek to tell you to just buy another?

Similarly cold sores, I would tell him I will be taking baby elsewhere when she comes over with one if he refuses to take it seriously. That isn't a debate, it's just indisputable medical fact that she must not kiss him with one. I feel so sorry for you having to deal with not only the emotional/discipline side of things, but knowing he cannot even be trusted to put the baby's health first.

I should say, the children are thriving. Doing more than great. But the dynamic between them is not something I could be around for extended periods of time. Once in a while I can entertain as it’s nothing to do with me, but if I had to be around that consistently? Or worse still be the adult available on demand vs saying no I’m not coming, I’m drinking my coffee, please wait…would set me up for a no win situation. I’m not running around to cater to the whims of children who should be patient (and it’s not their fault their father isn’t saying wait). But if I was the adult saying ‘no I’m not coming’ then his children’s needs are not met and I become the villain.

When you can step back and observe / depersonalise the psychology that sits behind the NRP’s behaviour, it’s helpful. Well it was for me.
Now i can see none of this was my issue and any emotive conversations that come my way, I am able to simply deflect/ not take personally.
I hope my sharing helps in some way.

*In his mind, he’s being a good parent. In my mind? He’s building a rod for his own back where all his children see is ‘my dad is there to run around after me and ensure I have fun.’

At that age my children would have been told to wait as I was having a drink and to try and work it out themselves. They would NOT have interrupted me every 2 minutes (otherwise they would have been told off). The message children get by my type of parenting? You and your toys are not the Center of the universe (and nor are your associated needs). Your parent is having a break (and needs one). So learn to be patient and wait, which eventually grows into having consideration for the needs and wants of others - not just ‘I want/ I need.’*
Absolutely perfect said @sassbott.
That's the way I parent also and totally NOT the way exdp parented his. His, as you know, were teens but this behaviour had been allowed from the get go & so he was there being interrupted by, & running around after, almost adult children like they were little ones! It was BEYOND ridiculous.
I too still chat to him sometimes and as an aside he has bought the eldest (21) a second hand car so "he can have some independence". Said 'child' has NEVER work a day in his life & is now swanning around in a car that he hasn't had to contribute a penny to!
Exdp has a huge work ethic & fully believes in graft and keeping busy & paying your way, EXCEPT when it comes to his dc!!! He genuinely does not see this & also does not see that his dc are turning out to be as lazy, money obsessed & financially expectant of him as their mother.
Honestly the amount of eye rolling I was doing down the phone was unreal.
I actually think he has gone backwards since our split & all the progress he made in therapy has been eroded way by his dc who honestly treat him like a cross between a bank & a dogsbody.

@sassbott I have a very similar parenting style the children do not interrupt an adult conversation full stop (unless an emergency obviously!) I have never tolerated it and won't. The issue is I have had my rules for the children for a long time mine are pretty much all grown up 20, 16 and 12 it's been a successful style and worked. They have manners, respect and are hardworking decent kids. I didn't pander to them when myself and their dad broke up they defo don't get pandered to at exh house they are treated the same as the resident child there. In fact the resident child gets a little bit more of everything as her mother earns a lot more money then exh my children do not moan or bitch about what their step sibling gets to do, have that they don't have they've been bought up to understand the dynamics between mums house and dads house. I wouldn't tolerate it if I found out they wasn't following the same rules and were being difficult.

My DP doesn't understand that ages come into it if his dd was my dd there are still things I wouldn't let her do that the older children do due to disparity of age by saying they should have the same rules (me means my dd more than my ds) is like saying the 5 year old can go out independently like the older children except that isn't what he means he means if I want to take my dd with me to the salon to get our nails/eyebrows etc done I should take the 5 year old too except why should I?

I don't try to make out I'm a perfect parent or my children are perfect they aren't far from it for me and them but we have rules and bounderies which generate love and respect. I don't thibk they realise they are ruining their children it doesn't start with a problem with the child but it gets there pretty quickly due to their actions.

I can see so much of our situation in what you've said my ex and I Co parent without rows or stress it really does help.

@asofanearyou I didn't want to take back my pillows and cushions as she had slept on them and has cold sores and molluscum contagiosum across her face so noone gets them now as ill just throw them away to avoid the risk of infecting someone else. Other stuff is a little difficult as she emptied out my expensive shower oil in the bath along with shampoo and conditioner or uses dd bath lily he won't tell me it's only when you go to use it or my dd is like where my tangle teaser brush. I'm trying to mitigate it and bought everyone a basket with a name on for the bathroom if your toiletries aren't in your basket you don't get to use it! I've told dd to put her perfumes and make up away in drawers whenever she is here so she can't go and help herself and have bought her her own towels too. Dp does a lot of sneaking around and whispering in corners with her to give her what she wants around not letting me know that's what is going on.

I told dd she wasn't to touch her face without washing or sanitizing her hands after due to cross contamination DP said I should think of her feelings and how she feels as it isn't nice for her. My dd can really suffer with cold sores herself and if she gets one she 9 out 10 ends up with impetigo all of which I don't want in the house with a baby due imminently (nor do I want a cold sore myself!)

Dh does the running around and allowing interrupting too. His need for dss to depend on him outweighs his want for dss to be a well mannered and likeable child. He knows he wants dss to be confident and happy but that need in him is a hard one.

It's fascinating that these nrp are all fairly similar. I wonder if there have been long term studies showing what the root cause of it is. Not all nrp are like this. My dc dad is not like this with our dc or his older dc. My dad wasn't like this with me and my siblings. There has to be a cause somewhere along the way.

I think it depends on access to their children. My exh isn’t like this either. But then I’m not controlling contact or access. He speaks to them when he wants and knows he can see them when he wants. He also knows I am fully supportive of his role and his role as parent is just as important as mine. As such he’s not under threat, nor does he feel his relationship is under threat. He also receives a lot of validation of him as a parent by my actions - which is so important.

My exp has the polar opposite. All contact is via CAO and the ex vehemently fights anything more. On top of that, she is not supportive of his role in (what she views as) HER children. He has now been having contact for well over 5 years and in that period, she is yet to say one positive thing about his contact time. He receives no validation/ acknowledgement that his role is valued.

I’m not entirely sure how I would feel if I was the parent in his shoes. It’s a very very very dysfunctional place to have to operate from - so he does have huge empathy from me. And I think it’s up to him to decide how he parents and meets the needs of his children. And his own needs in amongst it. Their children ‘needing’ them is validation in itself. Plus the children may well need the more intense bonding EOW if the RP is undermining the NRP bond.

I think (for me), these are factors out of my control and the healthiest solution is to simple step out of it. Not easy in some of these situations however.

@sassbott you make a valid point, my dps ex undermines him and makes cutting and quite frankly horrible accusations to their dd. I wonder if it is all to prove himself so the child goes back to RP saying how wonderful dad was on contact weekend almost like a validation of ha see I'm not what you said. I don't have a CAO with my ex he can see the children whenever he wants, I inform him of school events and give him the choice to attend, he can call and speak to them whenever he likes. DP does not and will never have the same with his ex. I wonder if they reach a point whereby they don't give a hoot what the other parent says and can ignore if the Disney dad'ing stops?!

@Vie8126 I don't know if it's the ex, maybe it's to do with wanting to be his dds favourite?

@sassbott thank you for all your posts.

I am 'loving life' whilst dh works away. It's totally different in my home without him. I didn't notice until he went away all the things me and dc do to live with him happily. Last night (after we had papa johns and watched a film all together) ds was online chatting and laughing with his mates, dd was in the living room and had taken over the telly and I felt completely relaxed. Dh hates noise from the dc (inc his own), he's constantly looking for things he's put down and can't find again, there's no piles of his stuff, dc clean up after themselves (dh is the only one who doesn't rinse his cups/plates and put straight in the dishwasher). I feel lighter!

It has made me feel sad about my relationship with them changing since dh moved in. I suppose it's natural for teen dc to be in their rooms, and they were in their rooms a lot before dh in, but now they're always in their rooms. It's not that dh is horrible to them, they like him a lot, but it's not the same as when it's just us 3. I hope dh works away more often in the future.

@Vie8126 I think it’s very hard to know what that sort of situation would feel like as a parent. My exh and I support one another’s role completely. Similar discipline/ similar house rules and expectations around manners/ behaviour.

Knowing that that consistency is there removes what could be a huge stressor (for the both of us). It frees me up emotionally to focus on other things (like a relationship) and it also allows me to parent robustly because I am secure in my parenting role.

If I faced constant criticism, hostility, undermining from my children’s father, layered on top of deep resistance to facilitate any contact outside of what a court had demanded? I think i too would view my time with my children as deeply precious. Too short and my world would come to a halt for them. That part I can understand. Would I however expect everyone else’s world to come to a halt? No. And for others to extend that ‘special’ treatment? Also no.

I think in these situations this is where ‘ blending’ becomes so fraught. I don’t think my ex is wrong to parent as he does - If I hadn’t seen my children for 10/11 days and they interrupted me every 2 minutes, would I tell them to wait? Or would I view that time as helping them is the least I can do? I have 10/11 days to sit around and do nothing.
Whereas I (as a RP), I see my children a lot more so I don’t want to be interrupted every 2 minutes.

I don’t think it’s healthy parenting, but I can see how these EOW situations result in these sorts of dynamics. I think the problem becomes when resident children/ another family are layered into this unhealthy (but you could argue inevitable) dynamic.

Because you get different rules/ a two tier system/ and a partner who changes into someone unrecognisable (because of the dysfunction around them with the ex). That changes the dynamic of the home and impacts everyone.

To this day, I know wholeheartedly, this is why my exp’s ew has gone to the levels of high conflict that she has. To put off any woman in getting involved with her children. Nothing to do with ‘anxiety’ (as the family court judge stated) and everything to do with pure vindictiveness.

It's fascinating that these nrp are all fairly similar. I wonder if there have been long term studies showing what the root cause of it is. Not all nrp are like this. My dc dad is not like this with our dc or his older dc. My dad wasn't like this with me and my siblings. There has to be a cause somewhere along the way.
@StarryNight468 I read this and was going to say I think it's dynamics with the ex & then I saw @sassbott had more or less said the same .
My exh was a bit like this to start but once he saw that I was more interested in working with him than against him it stopped. He had left with the OW so was expecting repercussions which never came.
We have an access arrangement that we stick to but he was always at liberty to contact the dc when he wanted & if access needed flexibility for family stuff we always dealt with that.
I also think that nrp's like your partners & my exdp are very bad at accepting what is essentially a situation of their own making in that their exes were their choices; they chose to have dc with them, & now they have to live with the reality that their exes are not very rational or nice people. This then leads to a belief in Shoulds; my ex should be nicer; I should get to see my dc more; my partner should be more understanding; my partner should be as interested in my dc as I am.
A lot of time this is also thrown into relief by the partner (us) having decent relationships with our own dc & exes - they see happy dc & relatively amicable co parenting & become obsessed with the fact that their dc are missing out, the fault of which lies with them and their exes but gets projected on to us.
A therapist said to exdp in couples counselling that it was irrelevant what he thought of his exw - he could not change her, she was the mother of his dc; nothing would ever change that & that the dc would always have a relationship with her be that a good one or a bad one & that it was a relationship he could not control. She told him he would have no peace until he could accept these facts & move on; that his 'bad divorce' was his cross to bear so to speak & he needed to lose the victim mentality for both himself & his dc. She said all he could do was parent as he sought fit when the dc were with him; that he had control over nothing else. She also stressed parenting - Not being a buddy! He made some progress in stepping back from what was going on in ex's house but remained a buddy to the absolute detriment of our relationship & his dc's character development.
I too gave huge sympathy for nrps in this situation but I do think their absolute refusal to be clear eyed & accepting of a situation they contributed to is massively destructive for all involved including the dc and any future relationships they have. I think in some ways, in order to move forward, they have to harden themselves to ex & dc dynamics which of course is not easy but if they don't, they truly do get stuck in their past relationship & give their ex a hold over them that never diminishes.

This then leads to a belief in Shoulds; my ex should be nicer; I should get to see my dc more; my partner should be more understanding; my partner should be as interested in my dc as I am.
A lot of time this is also thrown into relief by the partner (us) having decent relationships with our own dc & exes - they see happy dc & relatively amicable co parenting & become obsessed with the fact that their dc are missing out, the fault of which lies with them and their exes but gets projected on to us

The above a million times over. Especially the ‘shoulds’ with regards to a partner. Those ‘shoulds’ also come with absolutely no regard for what the partner may already have on their plate or any regard that the should may already exacerbate pressure their partner has by proxy of also being divorced and running their show on their own.

When I look back to when I was in this nightmare situation, I can explain it only one way.
My exp would go from being this laid back/ chilled/ borderline lazy person to someone with a very strong sense of what needed to happen.
It reminds me of parenting styles in certain cultures (I speak from personal experience), where duty to family overrides and personal choice. If children in some of these families reject the familial duty and exercise personal choice (like having a baby out of wedlock), it can be met with very strenuous backlash. From said child being disowned to (horrifically) the more extreme cases of honour killings. The underpinning philosophy is ‘this is what you must do, there is no discussion.’

If anyone has been in the receiving end of that, some families / parents cannot be reasoned with. They are seen as having a very strong inner sense of cultural duty that overrides any other emotions/ thinking. What else leads otherwise law abiding people who to all intense purposes love their children, into really extreme reactions?

Their inside barometer of what is right is stronger than the wider POV of ‘this is my child and I love them no matter what’.

That same mental barrier that comes down and overrides other normal/ logical/ rational thinking is what I think happens with some of these NRP’s.
I honestly don’t think it’s deliberate or conscious. But I think inately, they believe that because of their situations, this is what MUST happen. And if it doesn’t? It’s why we see (time and again) very dysfunctional behaviours as these men lash out at partners/ resident children.

It’s a very hard mindset to get through to. And it’s nigh on impossible to change unless the person with the mindset sees the need to.

It’s far easier to blame the evil partner for not playing ball and being mean to the children.

I think these dynamics are very complex.

I too gave huge sympathy for nrps in this situation but I do think their absolute refusal to be clear eyed & accepting of a situation they contributed to is massively destructive for all involved including the dc and any future relationships they have. I think in some ways, in order to move forward, they have to harden themselves to ex & dc dynamics which of course is not easy but if they don't, they truly do get stuck in their past relationship & give their ex a hold over them that never diminishes

Taking responsibility for their dc and dcs dm is key I think. A lot of nrp aren't able to take the responsibility of their actions contributing to this dynamic and, like you said it becomes the new partners and resident dc fault.

If anyone has been in the receiving end of that, some families / parents cannot be reasoned with. They are seen as having a very strong inner sense of cultural duty that overrides any other emotions/ thinking.
@sassbott this is very insightful.
Step Mum’s are scapegoated for just having an outside perspective and bringing this to deeply entrenched bad family dynamics. This is very threatening and I think the family, instead of compromise, further closes ranks and targets the ‘outsider’ basically as an enemy.

I wonder if this is more common in step families partly because most break ups are not amicable. Most people who make good parents stay together? Possibly a controversial view. I separated from my Ex in large part because he wasn’t a good parent or supportive partner to my parenting. This did not get better after the split. So we are more likely to encounter bad dynamics in separated marriages.

Hi ladies, sorry for the absence I was away getting married! The day went without a hitch, but DH did not hear a word from his DD and still hasn’t not even hope it goes well or hope you enjoyed your day. He looked so sad when we were discussing all the lovely messages we had from family and friends. I didn’t know what to say to him, so just hugged him and said I’m sorry she’s treated him like that. What I really wanted to say is why can’t she grow up? Stop being so self centred and realise the world isn’t all about her and everyone is entitled to some love and happiness in their lives.

@Tara336 glad to hear all went well, I was feeling anxious for you after your previous post.

@Tara336 congratulations 👏 and well done for keeping your thoughts to yourself.

@alwayswrighty I’m fine honestly, thank you for caring. @StarryNight468 it’s hard to keep my thoughts to myself but I’m well aware that every single thing I say or do is likely t be wrong so saying nothing is my safest (and most peaceful) option. He sees DD sporadically (when convenient for her) I know that he will call me away from that upset, he tends to internalise everything then it will all spill out at once. I tend to be a head on kind of person as in let’s air this, then move on so it’s it’s difficult for me to watch DH very different coping mechanism. I see the complete silence towards DH as almost bullying as in you did something I dislike so the only way I can safely punish you is to blank you. I mean safely as she did pick a fight with him he won’t stand for it.

Ugh. I've come for a safe dejected moan so DH doesn't sense I feel meh about it.

DH got made redundant in November after 6 years where he was. Very little pay out. He walked into a new job but the place he moved to is going to be shut after a damning report by CQC (its a care home, shutting due to care issues not food issues which is what he does). Gets to new job Monday (did a couple of days last week to shadow leaver too). It's so far from what he was promised its sent him into sleepless nights and a depression so I've told him to quit because it's really not good for him.

I've not long been promoted, and as long as I keep performing my basic and commission will carry us through if we tighten our belts.

What I'm a bit pissed off about is he can't tell his ex that he's lost his job or she'll expect him to have DSS every weekend, but that means I will have to pay full child support (£300) until he finds another job when in reality I should be increasing my child support payments to my DD. The other factor I'm concerned about is my promotion is subject to a 6 month probation period and I could end up with a HUGE salary drop if I'm no good at it!

Don't get me wrong, I've been a single parent so do want to continue paying as much as I can for DSS but I'm not going to be able to keep it up forever, and at some point will have to reduce payments to half if he can't find a decent job.

that means I will have to pay full child support (£300) until he finds another job when in reality I should be increasing my child support payments to my DD
Why? You don’t have to pay anything to his ex?
You’re not DSS’s parent, but you are your DD’s parent. Paying for DSS & not increasing your own DD’s maintenance is all kinds of wrong.

I feel sorry for his ex about losing maintenance payments but those are to be made by the actual parent, which you are not. You have no legal or moral obligation to give her a penny. BUT you do have that obligation towards your own child.

If you weren’t with DH then his ex wouldn’t receive anything other than a some of any potential benefits he may be entitled to as he’s unemployed.

Also just to note, if your DD’s other parent finds out about your increased wage then they can legally go after an increase in maintenance… be careful because you could end up in real financial difficulty if you find yourself in a position where you’re fully supporting DH, have to increase your payments to DD and then try to cover DSS’s maintenance too.

@alwayswrighty sorry but you need a reality check! WTF are you doing! Paying £300 cs so your partner doesn't have to say no. He's a big boy, he can say no. He should never have asked this off of you. I'd be fuming.

Also you could end up with a underpayment CS bill of your own by the sounds of it.

@SpongebobNoPants we have an agreement as to how I increase until I pass probation (advocate extra until confirmed in role) so I am doing that from when increase kicks in this month.