Settle an argument for me please?

[PradaBallbag]

It's been ages since I posted on this board but here goes. Have been married for 3 years, both on second marriages. Husband has a 14yo son who stays 3 nights per week. I have an 18yo daughter who lives here full time.

We had a silly row this morning which culminated in him saying he was going out for the day to get out of the house. I said in that case please take SS with you as he's here to see you, not me. (He's due to go home tonight). This resulted in a rant about if that's the case then I shouldn't be going out when my daughter's here.

I pointed out that the two things are entirely different as my daughter lives here and his son visits HIM for contact. But apparently that means that I'm not affording his son the same privileges as I give to my daughter.

We have this row over and over and I feel like he expects something from me in relation to his kids that I can't give. He wants them to have an equal place in my thoughts and heart as my own daughter does. (There is also an older son who is 20 and away at uni).

I don't know how we resolve this - is he being unreasonable?

Very well said @aSofaNearYou. I've told my husband he needs to stop getting hung up on the terminology. We've agreed to disagree for now, but I expect it will come up again. Or I just choose my words very carefully in future.

@aSofaNearYou

*It is unfortunate that those parents ( and their partners ) who are petitioning the Courts for some form of custody do not inform the Court of their intention to view the children as guests and visitors in the home as opposed to fully vested members of the household.

If those types of opinions and practices were presented to the Court it is quite possible that Court Orders would be modified in the best interest of the children.*

It's sad to see what is blatantly a case of actual terrible and damaging parenting being sidelined to focus on something that is, essentially, semantics.

I don't think people that have no experience of being or being in a relationship with a NRP can really appreciate how hard it is to not view someone that is there less than half the time as "visiting". Certainly when they come EOW. My step son calls our house home, although it quite naturally isn't quite the same as if he only had one home and I have no doubt he views his mum's house as more his main house, as he's there much more. I have no issue with him viewing our house as one of his homes or describing it that way, and he is not treated like a guest, but at the same time it is just natural to view someone that only comes to your house EOW as visiting, even my partner does it. There is no negative connotation behind the word "visiting", it isn't meant to be offensive in any way, it's just a word commonly used to describe someone that isn't normally there but comes sometimes.

If people, OPs husband and posters on here included, would stop being so unnecessarily defensive about the semantics of the word "visiting", they might be able to see that it's not an insult and it isn't the point. The point is that he should not be storming off for the day and leaving his son in the care of OP, or indeed in any scenario, whether OP was there or not. That behaviour is far more of an issue than whether step mum's occasionally use the word "visiting".

I heartily agree with this. The weirdness around the word ‘visiting’ is frustrating. There’s nothing negative about visiting.

Tbh, visiting might very well be the more accurate description of what happens in many blended families. My husband treats the arrival of his children as some sort of royal visit. If he actually believed they lived here, he wouldn’t insist that everyone and everything stop and revolve around them from the instant they’re dropped off.

My son lives here most of the time. He comes and goes with no fanfare. No one is expected to form a procession to greet him as he returns from a weekend at his dads. He just comes in and it’s all normal and standard.

There are two issues here. Whether a step parent should be looking after a teenager when the other one is not at home.

And whether the SC is at home there or only visiting their parent and have therefore no right to be there is the parent isn't.

I agree that it can debated whether the bro's home is the SC home when coming eow only. In this instance though, he is there 3 days. Like many people who stay away during week for work. Not considering this to be his home too can understand my be upsetting to the child and his dad.

As for the step-parent not ever looking after their self sufficient teenager SC, again, it comes down to whether OP husband has insisted that his SD should never be left alone with him and made to go with OP if gone for more than a couple of hours. Would this be acceptable too?

I've told my husband he needs to stop getting hung up on the terminology
But it's not about terminology. It's whether you consider the house to also be your husband's and his son's home.

If you did, why even raise the matter? If you don't, then ultimately, he is indeed a visitor. You don't really have anything in between.

And whether the SC is at home there or only visiting their parent and have therefore no right to be there is the parent isn't.

I think I've already said this once, but just for clarity. I'm not saying that my husband can't ever go out if his son is here. But what I am saying is that if he's talking of buggering off for the whole day (which he was) he might want to consider taking his son with him since he's here to see him and would be going home that evening. (Yes, he calls mum's home. She is the resident parent. Do you see the distinction?)

In the same vein, if my husband was away working, or on a boys holiday, or whatever, I would not expect his son to come. He comes to see his dad, not me. My husband spent a few days in hospital a couple of years ago. Guess what? The kids didn't come. Because he wasn't here to see them.

In the same vein, if my husband was away working, or on a boys holiday, or whatever, I would not expect his son to come
But the circumstances are different since he was already there and him going wasn't planned but the result of an argument and him needing some quiet time to reflect. For all you know, he might have been back after a couple of hours anyway.

There's a difference between agreeing that there's no point for a child to come when the parent isn't there (for which I fully agree with) and kicking them out from the house because their dad is going out.

To me it's the sane scenario as you suddenly needing to leave the house to say see a friend whose called you and asked for help, and your OH telling you to take your DD because she wouldn't rather stay with her grandparents/friends/boyfriend than stay in the house with him alone if you were going away on holiday with girlfriends for three days.

@dontdisturbmenow

To me it's the sane scenario as you suddenly needing to leave the house to say see a friend whose called you and asked for help, and your OH telling you to take your DD because she wouldn't rather stay with her grandparents/friends/boyfriend than stay in the house with him alone if you were going away on holiday with girlfriends for three days.

It's not the same though. My daughter lives here. When we filled out the census, we only listed the three of us as living here. My husband actually completed it.

Every stepfamily is different. But I'm not sure this is one where you can agree to disagree. You're fundamentally defining your families in very different ways. I can't see how your DH would t be massively hurt in this scenario as clearly he thought you had some sort of bond with his DS.

DH has two from his first marriage. They were young when I met them. We have 3 together. The elder two come EOW. This is still their home. DH and I did have a blazing row once and he did leave to cool off for the day. It never occurred to me to ask him to take the DSC with him. If someone is angry enough that they need space to cool off I can't see towing children around as a good idea. Arguments happen. On rare occasions people have proper rows.

I think you need to be very honest and clear with your DH about how you feel. If you've met and blended when the children are older I think it's much trickier. Looking from the outside you weaponised a child in this case. And used this as an opportunity to really hurt him. If your feelings came as a surprise to him then that really wasn't the ideal time to bring them up. I think you need a really clear and honest conversation that's separate from whatever this argument was about.

@dontdisturbmenow

To me it's the sane scenario as you suddenly needing to leave the house to say see a friend whose called you and asked for help, and your OH telling you to take your DD because she wouldn't rather stay with her grandparents/friends/boyfriend than stay in the house with him alone if you were going away on holiday with girlfriends for three days.

It isn't the same scenario, because he didn't NEED to leave the house all day, and he should have realised he wasn't in a position to do so, especially in a manner that would be upsetting to all involved.

My daughter lives here
Exactly! So we are back to the actual issue, you don't consider your house to be your SS's home, end of. Nothing to do with only wanting to be there if his dad is too.

That's what your OH was trying to explain. That he is upset that you've decided on behalf of everyone else that your and your husband's home is not your SD, even if in his mind, it is very much his son's home too.

because he didn't NEED to leave the house all day
Says who? Maybe he very much felt it was an emotional and psychological need to go away.

@dontdisturbmenow

because he didn't NEED to leave the house all day Says who? Maybe he very much felt it was an emotional and psychological need to go away.

What if OP felt the same? If the fight was that bad, it's quite likely that she would, and if it wasn't, then it comes back to the fact that his behaviour is volatile and he should not have needed a whole day to himself to cool off. As parents you just have to get on with it. You don't have the luxury of making a scene in front of your kids for a whole day because you've fallen out, unless you want to mess them up. I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would defend a man's right to do that. Even if OP was her SS's mum and this all had nothing to do with blended families. Still inappropriate behaviour.

If people genuinely think it's ok for parents to have a fight, storm out without telling their teens what the situation is and if/when they are coming back, for a full day on the basis that their kids are old enough to make their own lunch, then that's on them, but I'm having a hard time believing that anybody actually thinks that's ok and isn't just being massively distracted by their personal feelings about calling SKs visitors 🙄

Truth is we don't know what the husband was planning to tell the son. The OP did not say to the husband "be sure to tell son where you are going and when you will be returning" She told him that his son needed to go as he,the husband, was going .

That is a far cry from concern about the child being uninformed about the dad 's plans She did not say that the child needed to be informed. She said that the child needed to go.

It is the OP who made this a situation about home ownership /right of occupancy and guest status. She was not asking if the husband was right in leaving. She was asking for validation of the statements that she made.

Adults argue. Sadly, children are sometimes privy to the arguments. I don't think that it often comes up that children are then and there expected to vacate the property especially if the other party is not expected to be responsible for them.

The responses with which you disagree are all based on the information provided by the OP.

@Tireoftattler Him potentially planning on telling his son that he was going to spend all day out of the house to cool down after the argument is not a good enough excuse, in my opinion, and OP said he has form for doing this.

OP said right from the beginning that she didn't think it was fair on his son. All the talk of who owns the house and whose home it is was dragged out of her by other posters, and she specifically said that wasn't the point. She said he should take his son with him as he is here to see him and going that night, to which he responded with the "it's his home" argument. She didn't bring it up, he did, and then the posters on this thread did. Pointing out to him that he should be spending the day with his son, whether out of the house or at home, is NOT at all an unreasonable thing to do. It is true on multiple levels. He should not have been going. It was his defensiveness, and indeed that of the posters on here, that turned it into a debate about whether it was the step son's home, not anything OP said.

The irony being that it is deflection of the first order. It is NOT as big an issue, or indeed likely to be as upsetting to the step son, to potentially hear his step mum suggest his dad take him out for the day, as it is for him to witness his dad flying off the handle and storm out. That is the sort of thing that is a terrible environment for kids.

@aSofaNearYou
I think it would be far less traumatic for my 16 year old to see me leave the house after an argument than it would be for my 16 year old step daughter to be living in a house where she made to know and feel that although it is the home that het father provides for her it is not really her home , and as such she can be asked or told to leave any time that her father and I have a disagreement.

My 16 year old is often left alone in the home for a variety of reasons. My 16 year old step daughter is often alone in the house. The girls always know where we are. They have house keys, cellphones, food and now cars. Why would anyone need to feel that our being gone for a day for whatever the reason would be detrimental to either of them.

While we do not leave without informing them, should they want further clarification of our whereabouts, they would simply call our cell phones.

I don't think that I have anyone thoughts on this topic and I think that the OP has received a vast amount of varied input. She will take from it whatever she finds useful and discard the rest.

@Tireoftattler Oh please, that is such an obtuse response. There is obviously the world of difference between going out for the day in normal circumstances to storming out after a blazing row, in terms of the affect it will have on your kids.

Meanwhile, there is absolutely nothing to suggest he is being made to "know and feel like it isn't his home". One comment made to his dad about how he should take his son with him if he's going all day, for his sake, to remind him of his responsibilities, is hardly evidence of that.

You are simultaneously massively downplaying how damaging his actions are towards his son, and overstating OPs actions, because the only thing that is important to you is the children's perceived "status" in the home.

OMG I don't know how many times I have to say this. I did not, nor have I ever, asked him to leave the house! I treat him kindly. He is not made to feel like a visitor. He has his own room with all of his things around him. But yet again the worst is assumed of me because my life does not revolve around my stepchild and I don't put him before my own needs.

Surely it was up to the OP's husband to decide what happened with his son. If the boy's dad was okay to leave him in their house, with no expectation of the OP looking after him, then what did it have to do with the OP at all. His son, his house, his relationship to manage.

As the OP has made clear not her circus, not her monkeys so the comments couldn't really be viewed through a positive, caring lens by her husband could they? Particularly after a row so heated that he was leaving the house to cool down. Seems disingenuous to suggest otherwise on the facts given by the OP. It was a points scoring exercise, which she knew would piss her husband off. At least own it.

@PinkGinny

Surely it was up to the OP's husband to decide what happened with his son. If the boy's dad was okay to leave him in their house, with no expectation of the OP looking after him, then what did it have to do with the OP at all. His son, his house, his relationship to manage.

As the OP has made clear not her circus, not her monkeys so the comments couldn't really be viewed through a positive, caring lens by her husband could they? Particularly after a row so heated that he was leaving the house to cool down. Seems disingenuous to suggest otherwise on the facts given by the OP. It was a points scoring exercise, which she knew would piss her husband off. At least own it.

It was his decision to make, but it was a bad an unreasonable one in my view. OP was going to her mum's anyway so yes it does sound like what he expected was to leave his son at home alone all day while he "cooled off" because he was too incensed to spend time with him. His decision to make, but it does not follow that it was ok.

One of OPs very first comments was that it wasn't fair to his son. She hasn't mentioned feeling put out about having to do anything for him, and wasn't going to be there anyway. I don't see any reason why it would be disingenuous to suggest OP was at least partly motivated by thinking this decision was unfair on her SS. All the evidence points towards the fact that was indeed what she thought. Meanwhile, she was perfectly justified in reminding him his son was there to see him and "pissing him off", because his decision was such shoddy parenting!

Even now 7 years down the link of it were a kids weekend I wouldn't with my partner going out all day ( non work on emergency situation) because they don't see him very often. And yes 2 of them are always on games / phones but it's not the point. If he's not here a majority of a visit then it should be rescheduled and we have done this before because what the point of contact if dads away for a reason?

Granted this has changed slightly now that we have a child together as they come to see him now also but still

But if he isn't, then yes I think his dad should have taken him with him, suggested OP go out instead

Oh boy. Him suggesting that she leaves her own house would have gone down like a lead balloon and rightly so.

That would certainly add fuel to the fire.

@SandyY2K

But if he isn't, then yes I think his dad should have taken him with him, suggested OP go out instead

Oh boy. Him suggesting that she leaves her own house would have gone down like a lead balloon and rightly so.

That would certainly add fuel to the fire.

Yes I do agree, it might have done. However it does depend on what's said and how, I've had it before where my DP has said he's going out to cool off, leaving me with DD, and I've thought "well I wish I had that option". It's typical male behaviour to assume infinite freedom to do this sort of thing whilst expecting the woman to stick around at home.

I wouldn't appreciate him suggesting I go out unprompted, no, but equal respect that she might want to spend all day out to clear her head wouldn't go amiss. As I said, it's a moot point if he wasn't expecting anyone to be at home with his son, that would be less unreasonable to OP, but still highly unreasonable towards his son.

I agree with your DH. If he has to tolerate your child being there all the time then you need to do the same. Moral. Dont get together with anybody who has children if you cant adapt. You are totally out of order.

This works both ways regarding a SC being a visitor. I've seen many threads where the OP gets irritated that DH treats SC like a visitor and does xyz for them...like you would with other visitors.

The narrative changes to suit the argument on the SP forum.

It should be..I'm with my mum or I'm with my dad. Not a visitor in either home.

Visitors (in my experience) do not have a bedroom in someone else's house. He's not visiting.

My DB is divorced. His kids split time between him and his Ex. He goes out when they're there sometimes, just as their mum goes out for several hours at times.

Your later posts say you 'suggested' he takes his DS with him. I'm sure that in the heat of the moment, this didn't come across as a suggestion, but an instruction.

I said in that case please take SS with you as he's here to see you, not me.

This is not a suggestion. It's telling him to take his kid out with him. If you had moved into your DHs house and this happened (still with him having his kid 3 days a week) you wouldn't have said this. It's because you primarily see it as your house

The child could stay in the house and not need to interact with you. How he parents his kid and chooses to communicate him going out for the day is his business. You're not responsible for his child.

At the end of the day, you think you're right and he thinks he's right. I think you shouldn't have said what you did about taking his DS with him, but he could have made his point without bringing your DD into it.

Whether you had a child or not, isn't particularly relevant and it's not the issue IMO. The issue is that that's his DS home 3 days a week.

When tempers rise in an argument, both sides go off the point and the things said at this time become more hurtful than the original argument.