Stepdads vs Stepmums feelings about stepchildren

[SandyY2K]

I was thinking how it seems like more SMs than SDs don't quite like or prefer it when their DSC aren't around I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so started this one.

Can any SD say how they feel about their SC? Do you prefer it when they're not at home?

As I don't expect many SDs are on here, if you have a DP/DH who is a stepdad to your kids, has he said he prefers it when your kids aren't there? Or if he hasn't said it, do you think he feels this way?

I said I wondered if that's because women tend to post on forums like this more, as I noticed an increasing amount of SMs have negative feelings about DSCs visitation.

The feelings vary, but can include, anxiety, resentment, feeling uncomfortable, on edge or just a preference for them not being there.

There was a feeling that it's different for Stepdads for different reasons on the other thread.

I found this comment (below) provides an alternative view from a Stepdad's perspective. Obviously, this is just one person's view.

Perhaps they've just resigned themselves to the fact they their options are limited.

If my DW and I split up, I would want another relationship. I still wouldn't really find childless women appealing because most of them want to have kids of their own and I am 100% done

That means I'd just be trading one set of annoying SC for a different set of annoying SC
It's not like I'd meet the woman with magical non-annoying children. That's just how children are, tbh.

So, my totally best move is to be happy with where I am, stop complaining and work to make this situation the best I can.

Are men just more practical about it?

Sorry - with an ex?

@Vodkabulary

often DS1 comes home saying my dad doesn’t like you or my dad doesn’t like when you answer the door he hates seeing you

RUOKHon
You shouldn’t let your son talk to your DH like that. What possible purpose could it serve to tell him things like that? It’s so unnecessarily divisive.

I have to agree with this. Based on the timeline of when you met your current DH, it sounds like your DS is old enough to know that's not nice for your DH to hear.

Your DH does a lot for your DS and he'll know those comments are unpleasant, even though it comes from his dad.

Sidenote - your Ex cheats on you, you have to accept that your son sees the woman who participated in ending your marriage, yet he has these feelings towards your DH. I guess he wanted you to stay single forever. Life eh.

This has been my experience.

• When an unhappy marriage breaks down it is more likely to be Dad who leaves the family home. This can foster a "victim mentality" in Mum who feels abandoned and like she has to seek revenge. Dad becomes a villain in the eyes of Mum's wider family, friends and children (if they pick up on her vibe).

• Dad tends to walk away with nothing. It is assumed the children will stay with Mum. He doesn't bother challenging this as society makes him believe becoming the NRP is his only choice. Mum is outraged at any other suggestion. He leaves all possessions, majority of assets, pension and access to benefits to Mum. It's financially difficult for him to start again but he's doing it so his children can have a good quality of life with RP Mum.

• Dad continues his role as breadwinner and pays a hefty sum of child maintenance every month. Mum continues her previous role of primary caregiver. Dad wants to see the children as much as possible but he has financial and practical limitations due to him being the NRP. Mum mocks him for this and tells him he's a disgraceful Dad who does barely anything.

• Dad's new accommodations are small and crampt. Dad sleeps on a blow up mattress in the lounge so the children can have bedrooms. There is mould in the bathroom. He doesn't have a dishwasher. There is no central heating only storage heaters. The taps drip and he can't afford to replace them. He sleeps in a room without curtains. He'd need to save up to buy some but his priority now is saving up to buy a laptop for his child. The children notice Dad lives in worse conditions to Mum but assumes it's because Dad is tight like their Mum tells them. He's tired from a stressful full time job and travelling a 120 mile round trip on every pick up and drop off. The cost of fuel alone has to be budgeted carefully. He uses all his annual leave and days off on having his children come stay.

• The new SM loves her partner very much and sees how hard Dad is trying to provide for his children. She feels protective of Dad when the abusive text messages arrive from Mum. She worries about parental alienation and being able to form a close bond with the children. It's difficult for her to stay over at Dad's place when the children are there because he sleeps on an airbed in the lounge with no curtains and she also has a tiring full time job. She has a larger house than Dad but is worried she will feel resentful if his children move into her place straight away. SM sees Dad struggling financially and helps out by treating her SKs to nice things. She becomes the provider of takeaways, meals out, weekends away and new clothes. A yearly holiday in August would be impossible without her paying for the majority of it. It's difficult for SM to enjoy quality time with Dad because he has no AL to spend with her. If they do manage a short trip away together they do their best to hide it from Mum so she doesn't get abusive. Mum believes SM should give the money she spends on taking a trip away with Dad to the SKs. SM is frustrated her life choices come under so much scrutiny now.

• Years go by and Mum remains resentful towards Dad and tries to cause him as much suffering as possible. She feels it's unfair she does the day to day parenting while he lives "a care free life". She pushes for more money from Dad and wants less time with the children. Dad offers to become the RP and reverse roles but Mum is outraged by this suggestion. Dad is frustrated Mum can't see how much he is sacrificing.

• The children continue to notice that Dad is careful with his money. They wonder why Dad doesn't spend money on them like Mum does. Mum seems to provide much more for them than Dad does. SM feels she has to step in to make sure this isn't the children's lasting impression of Dad. After years of living in crampt conditions SM decides to fund a larger house for everyone to live in as a family. It would be nice if Dad could contribute to the larger house but SM understands he can't. SM hopes this isn't a cause for resentment in the future.

• Now the children are teenagers and Mum has spent years not talking to Dad. Dad tries to protect the children from the conflict. Unfortunately SM has noticed that the children are showing signs of manipulative and selfish behaviour. SM worries about this but feels helpless to do anything. Meanwhile Dad has formed a good relationship with SD. They talk during pickups and dropoffs and there is a mutual respect. SD is happy with his situation. He gets a lot of praise for his role as SD. He gets regular breaks from his SKs and a healthy amount of money flows into his household. Dad doesn't give him any agro and he enjoys numerous well deserved holidays with Mum as hard working RPs. He can't understand why after all these years later Mum is still wound up by Dad. Dad must have been a terrible husband, unlike him, so that must explain it.

I could go on.....

@Ruth58d there’s so much truth in what you just wrote. It is literally a carbon copy of what happened to my DP, the only difference being that SC’s mum had an affair which resulted in their split.

All of our kids are here on the same schedule.. My husband treats all of the kids well. I don't think the issue of does he love my children has ever been raised. He treats them well and they like him. I ask nothing more of him.

I am very fond of his children, and I treat them well. His kids appear to be fond of me. He does not ask more of me.

I think based upon my limited reading on this forum that much of discord related to feelings is driven by women.

I think that most men will treat children well as a matter of course if they are involved with the mother. I do not think that men give much thought to evaluating or assessing those relationships on a feeling level.

I think that is why men are capable of loving and remaining closely connected to their own biological children, who according to their stepmother's treat the biological father's poorly. I think men feel what they feel for children and do not invest a great deal of time analyzing their or their children's feelings and emotions. I would seriously doubt that my husband has ever wondered about my feelings for his children as he has never seen me treat them in any way that would cause him concern; nor do I complain to him about anything that they do. If I have an issue with a certain action or behavior, I speak directly to the child involved ( in exactly the same manner that I handle an issue with my own children).

I think it is the same kind of " I know who I am and how I am going to act" mentality that allows many men to be able to share a beer with his wife's ex , watch a sporting event with his wife's ex , or attend a family event hosted by the ex in-laws without a problem, while women tend to create drama around the same activities involving their husband / partner's ex.

I think more men than women are capable of being comfortable in what they are bringing to a relationship and tend not to need as much validation and support. Men are not threatened when his in-laws remain friends with the ex son in-law, they rarely care if the in-laws invite the former son in-law to family gatherings etc. Women on the other hand often get bent out of shape about duct activities.

Bottom line is I think that men bring a comfortable in their on skin feeling to step situations that makes it easier for them to adapt with out so much discord.

I also think that men do not give a lot of thought to the role of step father or labels in particular. A woman living with a man who has children will often self identify as a stepmother, and yet I doubt that the partners in those situations self identify as stepfathers. They may treat the child or children very well but they do not think of themselves as a stepfather.

Ruth58d - that sounds soon familiar. Other than perhaps it wasn't me that went off with someone else.

Tiredoftattler - also very true.

Honestly it feels like for some women to justify things they have to vilify the excess. Even if that ex has actually done the right things for the sake of the kids

Ruth so true

@Ruth58d
I think in some situations, when a relationship is not working, it is easier to blame the children or the ex than to be introspective or to say that we may just be incompatible.

I sometimes wonder why women will say that " his kids take up all of his free time" as opposed to saying " what is wrong with our relationship such that he seems to need less time with me than I want with him?"

On line of thinking makes the children the culprit and does not allow that problem may be a difference in the partners' feelings for each other or their differing perspectives on relationships in general.

People who are not given to introspection often attribute their problems and difficulties to external sources. Rarely do they see how they contribute to or in some instances create their own problems.

[quote sassbott]@SandyY2K
I would say this probably comes from a financial perspective. Many women still don't work. If a SD is the only one working, then he's the one financially supporting the SC, moreso than their bio father at times too.

Interesting. Every single SM I know in RL is actually the higher earner and the one providing the bulk of the ‘financial’ stability. I know of absolutely no women who do not work and whose children are supported by a man who is not their father.

I have come across this and probably as a result of society, some women can't understand why a man won't live with her and her kids, knowing he'll see his his own kids less

This isn’t a society issue, this is a family court issue. Where a primary carer is hostile to equal access agreements, sadly a lot of NRP’s have to go via the courts, where still the standard access is EOW plus midweek contact.
From my personal perspective, how much my exp saw or didn’t see his children was not my problem. He married his EXW and procreated with her, she was the one who fought everything tooth and nail and as such the best he could get was EOW. Did I then expect him to see my children more than he saw his own? No. But it’s not my problem to solve for that my kids are with me 50/60% of the time and his only 20%.

If a person cannot balance that reality in their mind, they should be very upfront about that when dating/ navigating a long term relationship.
The new partner has very little control over the EXW.[/quote]
My DH has financially supported DS and I since DS was 4 years old (and a fair bit before). We made a joint decision that I wouldn't work when DS2 was born, so on the back of that DH became the sole earner. DS's Dad wasn't paying any maintenance either (another subject!)

I feel lucky to have found DH. DS was 2 years old and he dragged me out of a hole. I never expected him to take DS on as his own, just treat him well and accept that we came as a package. We've had blips along the way, but he's gone above and beyond. 15 years on and DS's Dad is still around. He favours staying in the background, so it's a good job DS has a man in his life who cheers him on, no matter what.

I'm sorry you had such an awful experience @Ruth58d

I find that some dads in the position of your DP accommodation wise, can be quick and eager to move in with a new GF to get more comfortable housing to see their DC. Or they're keen to rent/buy with her needing that second income and it all becomes too much for SM, having your home 'invaded' by SC EOW leading to resentment where their mere presence is annoying.

@sassbott
Courts and standards are changing. A teacher at my son's school separated from hid wife, but prior to filing for divorce his attorney advised him to rent a 2 bedroom apartment and to engage a childcare provider for his 4 and 7 year old sons. When he left the marital home , he took his sons with him.

The wife called the police to have them retrieve and return her sons. The police said that they would do a wellness check, but absent a Court Order to the contrary, the father had a legal right to have his children in his custody.

So , it would seem that in some states, father are treated as though they have the same rights to access as do mothers. Interestingly, enough though, when women leave the marital home they usually take their children with them. Father's most often leave without bothering to take their children. Women will take their children even if it means taking their children to a shelter or living in a car with them. Many father 's just make provisions for themselves but not for their children.

I don't have any answers other than to think that father's are sometimes more willing to take care of themselves rather than to take the time to adequately plan to take their children with them.

Mother's have the same if not more financial constraints than do most fathers , and yet they take or keep their children with them. It is not so surprising that many children perceive themselves as having been abandoned by their fathers.

Whatever happens with the teacher, his sons will always know that their father did not walk away without them.

My DP is having to fight through courts to agree access etc.

Ultimately the issue is about power and control. What I can't fathom and understand is how can somebody who has been in a relationship for over 15 years together have so little respect for their ex partner.

I feel the ex W sees my partner as a hindrance and nuisance and doesn't fit into her worldly view. Which unfortunately has had an in impact on my DP relationship with his girls. She couldn't care less and that is really sad but ironically she stills wants his money.

I don't have any answers other than to think that father's are sometimes more willing to take care of themselves rather than to take the time to adequately plan to take their children with them.

I think many fathers feel they can't take the children with them. The idea that mothers are the primary carers is deeply entrenched in society. Even more so if their ex is a SAHM (and will argue that the children should be with them not in childcare).

And financially, they may still be paying for the home the mother is living in with the children, so there just isn't the money left to do more than just about accommodate themselves.

I know my husband (for all his faults) stayed in his previous relationship much longer than he should have because he wanted to stay with his children. His ex was already cheating on him when their youngest was 3 months old (she was probably doing it before, but he had proof from then). He really thought he was going to have to pay for her and the children and try to make a life for himself (while only seeing them one night a week) if he left her. So he stuck it out until she left him for an OM.

Turns out he didn't have to buy her a house and pay for her life. And I helped him to get more contact than she led him to believe he could possibly have. He tried for 50-50 but she pushed against it (for the maintenance more than anything else - she is not above pulling contact because £700 is not enough for her liking and she wants more).

I think many fathers feel they can't take the children with them. The idea that mothers are the primary carers is deeply entrenched in society. Even more so if their ex is a SAHM (and will argue that the children should be with them not in childcare).

Yes I agree with this. The belief that the kids are supposed to stay with the mother runs deep.

I can only explain my experience but my step-father made all the right noises and did all the right things while my M was around, as soon as she left the room there was an ominous silence, he basically ignored me. It was oppressive silence. The nice stepfather act only activated when my mother was around, it fucked me up emotionally for years.

No experience of a stepmother however. I think it's a lottery who you get.

I was 6.

Absolutely. If he is leaving a SAHM or a part time mother, what would people make of a father either quitting his job or going part time to look after the children (then who is providing for them financially?) or placing them in childcare while he works and their mother sits at home?
I’d bet my house that, serious abuse situations aside, he would not be cheered on as a good guy looking after his kids and not earning, taking them away from their main carer, nor would he be looked upon as a martyred single dad with whom one should sympathise.

In the case of the teacher, he simply consulted an attorney who advised him as to what to do as he prepared to file for a divorce. My guess is that his attorney gave him legal advice that had nothing to do with societal norms or expectations.

A man or woman who cannot adequately provide a home for him or herself while contributing to the support of the lives that they created should in my opinion, move back into their parents home until they are prepared to launch as adults capable of meeting the responsibilities that they created.

It appears , if the teachers situation is any example, that the legal system is moving in the direction that respects father's rights as much as mother's right. The parents in this situation are both well educated and gainfully employed adults. Neither is homeless as they are going through their process. I do not know what their financial status is, but neither is living on the street and as far as I know no one appears to be thinking ill of either of them.

Maybe societal views are evolving along with the legal system.

What needs to better evolve is the sense of personal and financial responsibility that both men and women take prior to creating lives for which they then become responsible.

No man or woman should have a child if the ability to support that child is contingent upon where or with whom the parent lives.

*I think many fathers feel they can't take the children with them. The idea that mothers are the primary carers is deeply entrenched in society. Even more so if their ex is a SAHM (and will argue that the children should be with them not in childcare).

And financially, they may still be paying for the home the mother is living in with the children, so there just isn't the money left to do more than just about accommodate themselves.*

@FishyFriday I think you're spot on with this.
And this is exactly what my exdp experienced. His exw was not working when he met her & they had their first dc when in their early 20's. Pre getting pregnant he said that she always said she was looking for work but no job ever materialised. Exdp is very shy so was very bowled over by her interest in him (she saw him coming imo as he was running his own successful business from aged 20) & basically just got swept along. My point being that from the get go he was in a very traditional set up. Exw refused point blank to work (kids should not be in childcare etc.) & so he ended up having to work harder and harder to provide for 2 adults & three children. By the time they divorced there was no way he could cut back on work (as the wheels would have fallen off everything) & in no way would she let the dc be with him more than the standard nrp access as her children were never to have childcare. Imo she was so entrenched in this because exdp having more access & the dc possibly having childcare would shine the spotlight on her insistence that she couldn't possibly get a job as the dc needed her as their dreadful father had no time for them!?! Exdp offered on many occasions to pay for childcare so she could train for some qualifications but she refused every time while saying if he had extra money to spend on childcare he had extra money to give her!
This leads me on to @Ruth58d's post which is such a close depiction of what my exdp went through.
Exw got the house, the car & a very high level of maintenance - exdp agreed to all this as everyone (exw, family etc.) told him the dc should be with their dm & that she shouldn't have to work. His solicitor while not agreeing with the above scenario felt that there was no point in fighting her demands as 3 of the 4 district judges in their area were very traditional & always sided with the mother.

When I was with Exdp he worked ridiculous hours to provide all this - baring in mind all the dc were teens at this point & should not have needed full time minding by their mother. By the time we split exw was STILL refusing to work & exdp was having to also fully cover university fees!
I honestly think dads who find themselves in this type of scenario CANNOT win. By the time we split the dc had him fully pegged as a taxi service & atm as this is the way their dm treated him, & their levels of selfishness & entitlement were becoming obnoxious.
Exdp kept fighting the good fight but I can honestly understand how many dads get absolutely ground down by this type of behaviour & why they may disengage.
I was also getting increasingly resentful as my entire life & that of my dc was being affected by his exw & dc & so I got out before the resentment ate me up.
I don't know what the answer is but the system is rotten. I'm not sure it will ever change though & society's expectations of what roles people assume in families is still very rooted in old school tradition.

@Magda72
I think society and the legal system have evolved enough to accept and recognize same sex marriages and adoption by single parents. Children are taught in schools today that families come in various configurations.

I do not think that neither society nor the legal system is wedded to any old school traditional view of family or gender specific responsibilities. I think that some people use those views as an excuse for their own failure to take responsibility and to make adequate preparation.

You will often hear women say "he left because she was cheating.," as though that excuses his/her failure to make adequate financial preparation to house and support his or her children. The reason for the divorce is ultimately because they were 2 people who could not live together compatibly. In most jurisdictions , divorces are " no fault " and just as courts do not care why you got together, they have no real interest in why you are separating. The only real issues are the proper maintenance of the children and the division of assets, and if the parties are adult enough to come to a mutual agreement the court will certify that agreement.

It is not the society nor the legal system that needs fixing. It is the lack of personal responsibility in many people that needs fixing.

It is not the society nor the legal system that needs fixing. It is the lack of personal responsibility in many people that needs fixing.

If something is a problem with many people then it is by definition a societal problem. As ever you are very determined to put the blame on individuals as if it's a dirty word to point out that something is a trend, but it really isn't and it's unhelpful to wilfully ignore context.

[quote Tiredoftattler]@Magda72
I think society and the legal system have evolved enough to accept and recognize same sex marriages and adoption by single parents. Children are taught in schools today that families come in various configurations.

I do not think that neither society nor the legal system is wedded to any old school traditional view of family or gender specific responsibilities. I think that some people use those views as an excuse for their own failure to take responsibility and to make adequate preparation.

You will often hear women say "he left because she was cheating.," as though that excuses his/her failure to make adequate financial preparation to house and support his or her children. The reason for the divorce is ultimately because they were 2 people who could not live together compatibly. In most jurisdictions , divorces are " no fault " and just as courts do not care why you got together, they have no real interest in why you are separating. The only real issues are the proper maintenance of the children and the division of assets, and if the parties are adult enough to come to a mutual agreement the court will certify that agreement.

It is not the society nor the legal system that needs fixing. It is the lack of personal responsibility in many people that needs fixing.[/quote]
Are you based in the UK?

No I'm based in Ireland which contrary to international opinion is an extremely progressive country at this stage. We were one of the first in Europe to legalise same sex marriage. We have decriminalised abortion & are adjusting legislation for same sex parenthood.
All that being said there still pervades a deep rooted gender bias to traditional parenthood which is the result of years of patriarchal systems being in place.
Most western countries are still like this. Sure there are individuals/families/communities/legislative bodies making great progressions but the underlying bias is still present.

Sorry I answered that thinking it was aimed at me - maybe it was aimed @Tiredoftattler?

@Tiredoftattler
No man or woman should have a child if the ability to support that child is contingent upon where or with whom the parent lives.

Where I live, we can't buy crystal balls yet. Great export business opportunity there, if you would be so kind