Avoiding spending with DP’s DD

[SebastienCrabSauce]

Both DP and I have 2 DCs each from previous relationships. He has 2 girls, one 15 and the other is nearly 11.
Mine are younger with DD9 and DS5.

We’ve been together 4.5 years but don’t live together.

I’ve always worked but up until recently I worked locally and within school hours. Last year I went back to uni and have had a complete career change. Much more money but also longer hours and a long (ish) commute.

I love my new job, I’m enjoying the extra income, for the first time in my life I’m debt free and I’m able to save for our future and my kids are happy being in wraparound care at school.

Obviously there is a downside to this which is that I spend considerably less time with children as my hours are longer. We’re out of the house from 7.15 until 17.45, and once home by the time I’ve fed the children, bathed them and done homework etc I barely see them.
Youngest is in bed by 7.15 because he needs a lot of sleep.

Also my ex has the DC EOW. So I only really get 2 weekends a month of quality time with my children.

Therefore, my weekends with my DCs are very important to me. I want these days to be happy, family time doing fun things like baking, going to the park or just playing at home all together. The kids need it and I love it.

My problem is DP’s youngest DD. She’s extremely argumentative and if I’m honest she’s a bully. Not just to my children but to most kids. Spending time altogether usually results in one or both of my DCs being upset by her behaviour and I’ve found since getting my new job my tolerance for this has plummeted.

We used to all hang out together at weekends and do family activities with everyone. But if I’m honest, now I just don’t want to.

I keep making excuses as to why we can’t do things together because I’m busy / kids have a party/ need to visit family etc.

My DP has obviously picked up on this and is questioning why we rarely spend time with the kids mixing but I don’t want to be as blunt as to say that his DD tends to ruin the day for my kids in 99% of circumstances.

Last time we were all together she physically pushed my youngest over and kept trying to exclude him from the game we were all playing.

It’s not jealously towards my kids though, she does it with children in almost every setting. To her own friends, cousins, our friend’s children. Literally everyone.

I’ve got to the point where I just don’t see why my DCs and I should have to tolerate it.

I see DP in the week and the weekends he doesn’t have his children quite a bit so I don’t think it’s necessary that we need to see his DD every time she stays at his.

DP is aware his DD is a bully and does try to rectify her behaviour but I think it’s just part of her personality to try and dominate others.

Don’t get me wrong, she can be a lovely little girl and does have many redeeming qualities. I enjoy her company a lot but I find the face she goes out of her way to make my DCs upset incredibly draining and I don’t want to deal with it every weekend I have my children.

The problem is, where do we go from here? DP is keen for us to buy a house together but I don’t think I want to. He has his girls most weekends and even when mine aren’t around there’s constant shouting, bickering and a general atmosphere of tension.

I don’t every weekend of my life to be stressful. I don’t want to break up with DP but I don’t want to live with him.

I’d be happy keeping our separate homes and me buying a place on my own for my DCs and I

@MzHz my DCs are 9 & 5, the 4yo I was referring to is my DN who I was looking after yesterday. My DCs do not have phones or access to devices to enable them to FaceTime.
DP’s DDs FaceTime my phone from their phones.

THIS RELATIONSHIP ISNT WORKING OP!

The thing is, it does for 26 days a month. I love him, he’s kind and lovely to my children. My kids love him and in particular his older DD, they like his youngest some of the time.

I don’t see why we need to break up for the sake of the time he has his youngest, it’s EOW. I’m happy to see her for an afternoon or so EOW just in short doses under close supervision.

I’m also happy to not see DP at all on the weekends we have our kids.

We can be in a relationship and not have to blend it at the stage.

She needs to see a psychologist.

The fact that many posters have confused her age is probably due to the fact her behaviour is so out of kilter with her actual age.

Yes, her behaviour is punished- but if she keeps doing it, that clearly isn’t working.

What needs to happen is someone to figure out WHY she does it in the first place. What does she get out of being nasty?

I think this is true for most people: If we are impulsively nasty to someone, we are then left feeling shit afterwards that we’ve behaved in a way that doesn’t match how we see ourselves and want others to see us. So we apologise and try and make amends.

Why isn’t this child behaving like this? Why is she nasty again and again and again? What does she get out of it?

I think a good child therapist (maybe a play therapist given her age?) would be able to get to the bottom of it.

childpsychotherapy.org.uk/fat

But this isn’t your job to do- but I would suggest it to your partner.

@featherquilt he does try with her. He gives her plenty of love and 1:1 time, is always there if she needs him or wants to talk to him.

He also immediately reacts if she misbehaves and puts boundaries in place. The problem is he can’t be attached to her 24/7. She’ll wait until he’s popped into the kitchen or out of the room. Or when he’s busy cooking or something, then she’ll say or do something slyly to upset someone.

It’s hard, there’s only so much influence you can have with EOW contact.
And before anyone jumps on that, it’s because his working hours are so long unfortunately it’s the nature of his work.

Honestly @Scarydinosaurs I didn’t want to post this because it’s like Mumsnet bingo, but her mum is very similar and I suspect it’s learnt behaviour.

I have known their mum for a long time through a wider social circle, before DP even, and she is very quick with her tongue and says very unpleasant things.

I’ve been on the receiving end of it before, when she didn’t get her way with DP her first response was to tear into me with insults.

I barely know this woman and she definitely has no cause to say such horrible things about me. I suspect the children have witnessed this on more than a few occasions

I think you may have posted about this a few months back? Something about him bringing his dds to your house for a Sunday lunch when you'd promised your kids it wouldn't happen.
Sorry to read things are no better.
Re: bikes in the park, as a teacher of kids that age, I would have called her out on the boasting about having what your kids did not. Not in a nasty way, but not to let her hide behind seemingly innocuous remarks. At yr 6 age, she knows exactly what she's doing. Call her out on it every time.
I think you sound thoroughly sensible and are objecting to the behaviour, not the child herself. But there is little else you can do if her mother is not on board and neither, in reality, is her father, apart from limit the time she has to adversely affect your own child.
And yes, don't let him move in!!

Tbh I wouldn't be exposing my kids to her at all. There'd be no shared activities and I would be very blunt in telling dp why. At the park he ought to have taken her bike away from her, for saying those things to your children. But he's not on top of her behaviour and it's not fair to expose your children to it - they didn't choose this relationship.
I don't think you need to break up though, since you do have a fair amount of time together without the kids. It's perfectly okay not to want to blend families. I don't know why everyone thinks that living together is so important and the only circumstance in which a relationship is 'real'.
If oldest DD is nice and your DC are fond of her I'd be inclined to invite her out without her sister. Just because they are siblings it doesn't mean they are joined at the hip. I think it's actually okay for the younger one to experience consequences. The older child shouldn't be stopped from seeing your kids just because the younger one is a bully.

Sorry OP I don't really think he is trying to get to the bottom of her behaviour.
She does need to see a therapist or counsellor to find out why she is behaving like this. It's not just about 1:1 time and boundaries EOW. The situation at school in itself is awful and really needs to be addressed.

If it genuinely is learned behaviour from her mother then he should take steps to protect his child from that.

@CallmeAngelina yes that was me.
I’m made to feel horrible at times for not wanting her here or to just want time with only my children.
I think DP struggles to get his head around why I find her so difficult at times and why I don’t love her like he does.

I think it’s exacerbated by the fact I genuinely do love his older DD and I think he loves my DC.

@featherquilt it’s not as simple as that. He has suggested counselling which was shot down in an instant by her DM because she genuinely doesn’t acknowledge there is a problem.
He tried to go via the school but they are obliged to share that information with her DM who then again, refused it.

The thing is, how does he protect his DD from her own DM? For all intents and purposes (and in the eyes of the law) she would be considered a good mother.

The DCs are well cared for, loved, have a nice home, fed a balanced diet etc. She is also a SAHM so no court in the land would change the contact arrangements and give more custody to a parent who will require the use of third party childcare when there is a loving, available and willing parent who is capable of looking after them.

You can’t protect a child from parts of a parents personality which you don’t like, unless it is abusive, which it isn’t in this case.

It’s difficult.

Anyway I feel we’re muddying the waters.
My question was not how to “fix” his DD or resolve her issues. It’s not my place or my responsibility (luckily!)

I just wanted to know how to proceed with protecting my own DC’s happiness and whether I was unreasonable to limit contact between them and tell DP exactly why I’m doing it.

Did you want them to go to the park yesterday. How did great come about

You are 100% correct to limit your DC exposure to her and yes you need to directly tell DP why.

You tell him "my DC have to cope with unpleasant and hurtful behaviours from at school and childcare, they are not going to be exposed to it in their home or on their weekends" words to that affect.

@FraglesRock no I didn’t. I told him what my plans were when he phoned me in the morning. Then when we were at the park he rang and said they were on their way.

It’s all well and good people thinking why did you just not say you didn’t want them there?
But it’s not easy being that blunt, they were already on their way and it was a public space.
He said they were riding their bikes to meet us, I did say “Please don’t, we don’t have ours and it’ll cause drama with the little ones” but they came on their bikes anyway.

I then said we were going to McDonald’s so they left, picked up DPs car and came to meet us. Again, without explicitly saying they weren’t invited (which seems cruel and unpleasant) what could I do?

It’s also hard not to tell him our plans because we usually keep in touch several times a day and chat about what we’re up to.
The times I have tried to be evasive or vague about our plans it comes across as hostile because it’s unusual for us not to know what the other is up to IYSWIM

I think your main problem is that you are not being honest. I think you need to be absolutely clear in telling him how you feel and what that means in your day to day life rather than dropping hints or expect him to know you don’t want the kids together.

Why are you frightened of being assertive with DP?

You are absolutely entitled to say that your DC just need time with you at the weekends without his DC there so you are happy to do x with them for a few hours but that is it.

@doodleygirl I know you’re right. But he’s not exactly going to take that conversation lightly is he.
I know I wouldn’t if someone said to me they didn’t want my child around their children.

Ask him what plans he has with his DC then you suggest what you could all do together then explicitly say that is the only time you will be seeing him over the weekend.

@RandomMess I’m not frightened of being assertive, I was very assertive yesterday and called him out on bringing the bikes. I was pissed off and couldn’t hide it.

I don’t want to be cruel to a little girl. I’m essentially saying we don’t like being around you, and that makes me feel like a horrible person. And like I’ve said several times, she’s not all bad. She can be very lovely at times but without fail every single time we’re with her she upsets another child

No, it won’t be an easy conversation but it’s one you need to have.

You don't make it about her, you make it about your DC needs.

They need weekend time with just you, EOW he is with you so the alternate weekend when he has his DC you need to restrict together time to a few hours.

Yes I agree you're going to have to be clear and say we're having a day to ourselves.

Have you had a discussion about prioritising your children at the moment and stop inviting yourself along.

Maybe ask him what he's planning that day or weekend and choose an easily managed activity where you can insert yourselves then leave.

And I think you're going to have to be explicit about him contributors invite himself into all your activities.

No he’s not going to take it lightly. But there is a way to have this conversation without it going completely south. And you need to have it sooner rather than later as things will come to a head and when angry/ upset, things will get said that will cause upset (been there got the t-shirt).

My advice is pick a time when no children are there, and you’re both relaxed. Preferably alcohol is not involved. Then bring this up and basically start by asking him questions. How does he think things are going? How does he think his Dd is getting on? Etc. It will give you some gauge of where he is (I.e in full denial or vaguely aware).
Then you talk about your change in circumstances (work etc) and how it’s making your weekends with your Children more precious as you miss your children. And you’re adjusting to that.

Then you simply (without attacking her personally) raise that you’re worried about his DD. Her behaviour. And it’s starting to really impact on you and your children. State that you love your DP and his children but you need him to work with you as his Dd is upsetting you, your children and You both need to manage it as a team. And you need his help in managing it.

Then you have the conversation about boundaries. But you also ask, is there something I could be doing to better support you and your DD? See what he actually says.

I have been with my DP for 4 years and even now these conversations are very hard, in the main because he’s incredibly quick to become defensive about his children. And that defensive results in him stating ‘well you do xyz’.
I don’t react anymore and simply state, I love you, I love your children, don’t lash out at me as I’m trying to help you. Taking that approach has worked. He spends his time with his children, I spend my time with mine.

She can be very lovely at times but without fail every single time we’re with her she upsets another child

This is a very powerful - and balanced - statement. You’re not saying that you don’t like her; you’re stating, factually, that she upsets other (your) children. You’ve given a detailed, concrete example here (with the bikes) - presumably you have an arsenal of similar examples were you DP to ask.

I think I remember your previous thread and - if I do so correctly - not much has changed. I think you need a very factual, dispassionate conversation with your DP about this.

Out of interest, how does your older DSD get on with her younger sister?

You can also frame it that the DC don't get on well enough to force them to spend so much time together. When he fails to see they don't get on, point out your DC often end up in tears and upset and how is that ok to be their weekend EOW?

Ultimately your DP does whatever so his DD doesn't end up in tears at the expense of yours... he indulges his DD by not managing her behaviour/the situation at your DC expense.

You need to show him you are cross/exasperated when you are instead of trying to hide it.