Avoiding spending with DP’s DD

[SebastienCrabSauce]

Both DP and I have 2 DCs each from previous relationships. He has 2 girls, one 15 and the other is nearly 11.
Mine are younger with DD9 and DS5.

We’ve been together 4.5 years but don’t live together.

I’ve always worked but up until recently I worked locally and within school hours. Last year I went back to uni and have had a complete career change. Much more money but also longer hours and a long (ish) commute.

I love my new job, I’m enjoying the extra income, for the first time in my life I’m debt free and I’m able to save for our future and my kids are happy being in wraparound care at school.

Obviously there is a downside to this which is that I spend considerably less time with children as my hours are longer. We’re out of the house from 7.15 until 17.45, and once home by the time I’ve fed the children, bathed them and done homework etc I barely see them.
Youngest is in bed by 7.15 because he needs a lot of sleep.

Also my ex has the DC EOW. So I only really get 2 weekends a month of quality time with my children.

Therefore, my weekends with my DCs are very important to me. I want these days to be happy, family time doing fun things like baking, going to the park or just playing at home all together. The kids need it and I love it.

My problem is DP’s youngest DD. She’s extremely argumentative and if I’m honest she’s a bully. Not just to my children but to most kids. Spending time altogether usually results in one or both of my DCs being upset by her behaviour and I’ve found since getting my new job my tolerance for this has plummeted.

We used to all hang out together at weekends and do family activities with everyone. But if I’m honest, now I just don’t want to.

I keep making excuses as to why we can’t do things together because I’m busy / kids have a party/ need to visit family etc.

My DP has obviously picked up on this and is questioning why we rarely spend time with the kids mixing but I don’t want to be as blunt as to say that his DD tends to ruin the day for my kids in 99% of circumstances.

Last time we were all together she physically pushed my youngest over and kept trying to exclude him from the game we were all playing.

It’s not jealously towards my kids though, she does it with children in almost every setting. To her own friends, cousins, our friend’s children. Literally everyone.

I’ve got to the point where I just don’t see why my DCs and I should have to tolerate it.

I see DP in the week and the weekends he doesn’t have his children quite a bit so I don’t think it’s necessary that we need to see his DD every time she stays at his.

DP is aware his DD is a bully and does try to rectify her behaviour but I think it’s just part of her personality to try and dominate others.

Don’t get me wrong, she can be a lovely little girl and does have many redeeming qualities. I enjoy her company a lot but I find the face she goes out of her way to make my DCs upset incredibly draining and I don’t want to deal with it every weekend I have my children.

The problem is, where do we go from here? DP is keen for us to buy a house together but I don’t think I want to. He has his girls most weekends and even when mine aren’t around there’s constant shouting, bickering and a general atmosphere of tension.

I don’t every weekend of my life to be stressful. I don’t want to break up with DP but I don’t want to live with him.

I’d be happy keeping our separate homes and me buying a place on my own for my DCs and I

My DP’s DC are lovely children. And my set up is quite similar to yours. We don’t live together and he has his children for standard EOW contact and midweek. I also work fulltime, share contact with my exh and so my time with my DC is lovely and precious and on the whole peaceful.

His DC have been impacted by the lengthy proceedings around contact and his EXW is not supportive. Therefore sadly, his children do have emotional issues which manifest themselves when around me and my children.

As much as my DP has wanted to play happy families (and goodness me it would be help me financially) I have had to have the blunt conversation with him and state that, for me (certainly short to medium term), this is not something I think is in the best interests of everyone. Including his children or mine.

His children need 121 time with him, without feeling threatened by my DC taking their dads time and attention. Your partners children are probably the same. A lot of adults push for ‘blending’ even when it’s not right for all the children. Well done for standing firm and protecting your time with your children.

My honest advice? You cannot tip toe around it. I laid my cards out very clearly and if my partner had said he was unhappy with our set up then sadly it would have meant us going our separate ways, and we do love each other. But if our fundamental goals were different, what else could we do?

I was not prepared to compromise my relationship and my time with my children to accommodate his children and their behaviour.
I understand why his children are the way they are, but it is not for me to use my family downtime to manage it.

Now, we spend a day together EOW. That’s it. The rest of the weekends we spend 121 with our own children. And you know what? His children are much happier. As are mine and most importantly, so am I.

One day it may be doable, but not yet. In your shoes hold firm. And have the convo. But kindly and don’t make it sound like you’re criticising his children (that backfires). Focus on you, your needs and your children’s needs. And on his children’s needs. His children won’t want to share him.

@BruceAndNosh the school have contacted her mum many times but she always manages to twist it so her DD must be the victim.
Prime example, she had been coming home complaining about another child saying he had been bullying her and making her upset. DM went to a meeting with the head teacher with my DP who was caught off guard when several teachers, lunch time staff and the head teacher explained that their DD was actually a prolific bully and the “bully” she was complaining about was actually one of her victims who had begun to stand up for himself, which she didn’t like so decided she’d play the victim.

I’m making her sound like a monster, she isn’t. As I said previously she has a lot of nice qualities and her behaving like this isn’t constant.

But as my friend wisely said “if you were having the best day out and enjoying yourself but then someone swore at you and called you names, what would you remember about that day? You’d definitely remember it being ruined”

Oh I will add as we cross posted. This categorically does not make you selfish. Not one bit. These are not your children to raise. We can be consistent, warm, available and loving to our partners children. It does not mean we have to spend all of their contact time with them. That time is for their parent and they. Just as much as your time with your children is for you and your children.

We never get these years with our children back. Now is the time to make memories.

And on his children’s needs. His children won’t want to share him

The weird thing is that it is his youngest DD who pushes to see us, so when I say no it looks like I’m rejecting her.
I’d be happy to leave them to it on their weekends with their dad, but they both call and FaceTime asking to see us. Yet when we meet up the youngest one starts acting up?

@sassbott I agree, these years are precious and fly by too quickly. I want to make the most of them

She sounds like a brat. But perhaps by controlling others she feels she is somehow controlling her life, which has probably been upset for a while as her parents would have been going through difficult times before they split up.

A parents job is to parent. So her mum and dad are letting her down if they do not help her to be nice and make friends etc as these are life skills. Who wants to hang out with a bully who pinches them or argues and makes them cry? The mum is in complete denial. She’s probably put it in the Too Difficult Box in her head and locked it away. It’s not her daughter it’s all the other children that are wrong.

Your DP sounds like he can’t deal with being on top of his daughter all the time, praising good behaviour and immediately reprimanding bad behaviour but Is that not what’s needed here?

I’d be honest with him and tell him what you’ve told us. If the relationship is to last communication is the key.

Prioritise time with your children without the girl. You won’t get this time again, they are growing up fast. Don’t compromise. The girl has two parents who love her already, even though neither is particularly good at managing her behaviour.

It’s because the youngest is most likely dealing with emotions that are hard for a young child to deal with. So whilst she wants to see you, when she does it makes her feel uncomfortable emotions (including potentially jealousy and insecurity). So that manifests itself in attention seeking behaviours around your children.

The reality is that the reasons are irrelevant. If it’s impacting your time with your children, that needs addressing. And if they are FaceTiming you and asking to see you, then I’m sorry to say but that is Potentially your partner also using his children to get what he wants. Why can’t he say to his children that you and your children are busy and have plans. That’s it. That way you are not being emotionally guilted into seeing them and the children don’t take it personally.

You need to change the rhetoric (which I imagine is your partners language around rejection?). Why isn’t that you have time with your children, he has time with his. My advice would be to set up a routine EOW. A routine that everyone knows (especially the children) when everyone is seeing one another. It’s working really well for us (touchwood).

I'd be honest in saying that the DC don't get along, rather than "your DD terrorises my children" (even if it's true, no parent really wants to hear that!).
And that you want to keep your EOW clear to spend with your children.

You need to be clear with your DP that moving in together isn't on the cards right now and for the next few years.

@Elieza they spilt when she was only 10 months old, she has no recollection of their break up

@LowcaAndroidow it’s hard to say they don’t get along because his DD doesn’t see it that way. She wants my DD around, it’s my DD that is getting upset by her behaviour so I don’t think saying they don’t get on will work.
I think I’m going to have to be blunt and say that she terrorises my kids and I’m not willing to tolerate it anymore

She feels insecure, though, OP. None of us can know why. Plus this is not an issue exclusive to separated parents. So it doesn’t really matter why. All that matters is that OP and her dc find the behaviour utterly draining. And who wouldn’t.

I like Sassbott would be querying how come the FaceTiming is not discouraged. I think it’s often the case that separated parents (often fathers) tend to hope (or fantasise) that having a mother (or father) figure will heal the wounds or guilt of the break up. But step parents are often aware on a deeper level that this is an issue for which they cannot be the solution.

I think the FaceTiming is a form of unconscious manipulation. He’s enabling his children to make the ask and actively putting you in the position to refusing a young and excited child. And he as the parent should be handling that and closing it off. As opposed to putting you in the position of saying no to a child. You feel rubbish and so does his child. It’s really quite unboundaried.

I completely agree with latent btw. I think a lot of fathers are desperate to recreate a perfect family unit. Their need to create one blinds them to the reality of what the individuals involved may actually need.

I'd tell him
My children have had a big change with my working week changing massively so I need my weekends to be for my kids for the foreseeable. They need to be my priority, when yours come round or we all go out they don't get my attention. Your youngest also doesn't enjoy sharing you at the moment as shown by her behaviour to mine. So I think you need to prioritise yours too. We'll see each other during the week as usual until everything settles down.
I also don't see us moving in together until all the children are happy together. But we also need to be together as a family so when there's a special event where the children are happy we should all go.

And please stop your children FaceTiming to ask to come round as it's not fair to get me to say no to them (and it's because they're bored at yours..)

My Auntie and her now dh were partners for years before finally moving in together. They waited as her dh's dd was very manipulative as a teen and Auntie was not prepared to put up with the girls crap (she has 2 of her own dc). Once the dc were older and off living their own lives they moved in together. The girl incidently has turned out to be a lovely woman and can now see just how awful her behaviour was, as an adult she has become clise to my Auntie whom is now her step mum.

If you are happy to live separately untill the dc are older and independent then do that op. Not every family has to be blended, sometimes it is better to wait.

*close

If the relationship is a happy one, I think it's very dramatic to end it over DSD2 behaviour.
I do think you need to sit down and talk to your DP honestly about why your worried about moving in and what can be done. Imo it sounds like the youngest dsd is jealous and potentially insecure of other children which is why she bullies younger children.
I think leaving a happy relationship is premature as 8 years is not a lot, and in all honesty she might decide she dosent want to visit every weekend as she gets older and starts making plans with friends or joins clubs, so I personally wouldn't limit 50+ years of happiness in a loving relationship for potentially difficult 8 years.
If you moved in together (or even now) you could potentially look at taking the kids out together one day and then doing separate things with them the other, as otherwise she is never going to learn to be pleasant to other children is she knows that bullying =getting her own way and separation.
It might even be worth your DP sits down 121 with her (potentially you take DSD1 out with you) and asks and talks about why she acts this why, why she wants to hurt and upset other people, that its upsetting to adults and children alike, as it may be that she is upset, or dosent like sharing her dad, or is jealous of other children, or dosent understand that little children need more attention but that dosent reflect on how much adults love older children, but the fact that they feel they can trust older children to be mature etc etc

I fully agree with @sassbott, didnt rtft before posting

Have weekends just you and your children.
Problem solved

So in her mums house she is the youngest by 5 years. And in the combined group she’s the second oldest? Is it always younger children she’s horrible to?

She’s clearly struggling in all areas with other children and absolutely you need to make the most of your more limited time with your children, it should be a priority.

4 years ago the younger 3 were at a different social development stage. It sounds like that as the social stuff has got more complicated she’s not getting it.

It would really easy for her mum to not think it’s a problem if she never sees it.

100% agree with everything @sassbott and @LatentPhase said, the dd is insecure for whatever reason but you’re not going to put your kids in the firing line for whatever she has going on.

Your DP KNOWS that his dd is a real live bully,but is not willing to accept it. He’s allowing the FaceTime calls because he’s being manipulated and is in denial.

She’s getting something out of her contact with your kids, bullying and hurting them for her own amusement/power trip, that’s why she’s chasing her victims. On some level she’s conscious of what she’s doing, but not why.

Tell your dp not to FaceTime you/your kids and pressure you/them to spend time together, for the foreseeable future you and your kids will be spending weekends together at yours and he spends time with her at his. Tell him gently that her behaviour ruins your family time with the kids 99% of the time.

Say perhaps that in time she’ll grow out of it, but that until your kids are old enough to take her on and protect themselves or until she has stopped hurting them on purpose, that he needs to spend the time with her and take time time to show her how to treat others. He needs to stop fannying about or tip toeing around this, he’s a parent who knows what the problem is and if his ex can’t/won’t fix it, he has to.

If your dp keeps FaceTiming, don’t answer and call him back when the kids have gone to bed. Don’t reward this manipulative behaviour with attention

@CatalogueUniverse no there’s only just over 4 between youngest his girls, eldest was 15 last week and youngest is 11 next month.
No it’s not always younger children either, she often upsets her 12 (nearly 13) year old cousin and other bigger older kids.

She’s only 1 year older than my DD but 5.5 years older than my DS.

@MzHz it isn’t my DP FaceTiming us it’s his DDs off their own phones