Holidays

[HotChocolateLover]

Firstly, this is all hypothetical. I only want genuine opinions as neither DH or I know what is the right answer.

I have one DS from a previous marriage, he has a DS and DD. We have done holidays the last three years including all three, one UK based and 2 foreign. This year is a ‘staycation’ as buying a house last year completely wiped us out.

Right, so next year, the ex is considering taking DSS and DSD abroad. This would mean that if only DH, DS and I went abroad together then our holiday bill would reduce by 40%. Everyone would get a holiday and surely that’s ok? We’re just agonising over it in case the step-kids think that their dad (my DH) is picking my son over them. But if their mum is taking them away then we will have the money to go away so why should we sit at home? We can’t really afford £5-6k for a week 🤦‍♀️ I just don’t want to offend anyone. Oh and by the way, my son’s dad had never taken him anywhere, never will and doesn’t even pay maintenance.

@brightfutureahead - also an excellent point!

@TheChain You have spoken so much sense on this thread. You definitely seem to ‘get it’. Thanks a lot to everyone else for your useful insights, it’s been very helpful x

In actual fact, it’s taken years for my son to stop hero worshipping his bio dad who ignores him. It broke my heart when we had to throw out his Father’s Day card after 2 months because my ex had moved and ignored DS’s texts to tell him his new address so we could post it. My DH and DS are now mates but it took several years (not that they hated each other) My DH certainly doesn’t favour my DS, he has a completely different relationship.

This is exactly why kids end up resenting their SM, because it is in their faces everytime they go to be with their dad thst it's all one directional, they have to adjust for things that demand effort and compromise on their part, but they have to accept that when it comes to the fun, they are not wanted to join in

Do you not think the resident children have to do a hell of a lot of adjustment, compromise and “fit in” when the SCs are there too? Of course they bloody do and you’re insanely deluded if you think otherwise.

but they have to accept that when it comes to the fun, they are not wanted to join in

With regards to this ridiculous comment 🙄
The SC’s lives do not stop when they are not here, they are living full happy fun lives with their mum (if they were being neglected then DP would be seeking full custody obviously).
Our lives are also allowed to continue when they are not here also. I often choose to do nice things and have fun days out with my DCs when the SCs aren’t with us, because my kids deserve a full life too.
And shock/horror 😱 my DP sometimes comes along too!
Do I feel guilty? Nope. Usually at the same time my SCs are having a lovely time with their mum and stepdad too.

If they’re here, we all go together. If they’re not I don’t even think twice and booking days out or fun activities because we’re allowed to carry on living our lives as normal.

That’s the reality of split families.

But they have to accept that when it comes to the fun, they are not wanted to join in

I agree with @TheChain that this is a ridiculous comment. The SC are involved in both the fun times and the boring times. In fact, i’m Now on MN whilst the SC are downstairs doing arts and crafts with DH. I sometimes like to leave them to it so they can chill together. DS is also out. They basically have done with us everything we would normally do on a usual week whilst they’ve been here (plus some fun extras) My point is, we’ve treated them no differently than we would DS.

While the perspective of the non resident children, is that stepsiblings get all the time or more time with their dad, that may not be a positive experience for the stepchildren in reality.

If a father isn't bothered about the time he spends with his own children, how great a dad can he really be to stepchildren?

Ex wives often think he's playing happy families with the stepchildren, but that's not always the reality.

A crap dad, will be an even worse SD... because he can get away with doing even less, as they aren't his kids.

I'm sure there are some men who are good dads and good stepdads, but this notion of him playing happy families really isn't true in many cases.

Those adult SC whose dad went on holiday with his stepchildren...should lay the blame squarely where it should be placed and that's on the head of their fathers, who chose to spend minimal time with them. Kids often don't see the faults in their parents as young children, but hail him as some kind of superdad. Superdad wouldn't ignore you and jet off every year without giving you a second thought.

It's so much easier to blame the SM, because the reality isn't great.

I can be objective about this. I'm neither a stepchild or stepparent, but I do work with blended family members and hear lots of their issues.

My DNs are also stepchildren.

My SIL is their SM and I do watch the interactions fairly closely.

In the OPs case, there is nothing wrong with going away if the SC are going away next year. There's no reason your DC should miss out.

The only problem is if she's flaky and suddenly the holiday isn't happening and yours is already booked. Then you're a bit stuck.

But they have to accept that when it comes to the fun, they are not wanted to join in

That certainly doesn't reflect the set up in my household.

Big days out (say to a theme park for example) are always planned around when DSD is with us.

However, that doesn't mean we feel the need to be confined to quarters as it were when she's with her mother.

Are we not allowed to visit the cinema for example she's not here? Or go to the local swimming pool or go out for a meal?

Do you think her mother thinks "I'd better not do XYZ with my DD because her half sibling might get upset"? Of course not, and I'm not suggesting she should.

Yet there seems to be the idea from some posters that second families are not allowed to do anything without DSC's. That our lives should be put "on ice". It's simply not fair or feasible for resident children to have their world fully revolve around SC access.

I take my kids to Spain DH and his kids join us for the second week. Same when we come back to the UK.

One thing that my kids feel is this is pretty much the only time they get me alone.

You really think that was the case? My DCs don’t often seen my DP without the SCs present

I don't think it, no. I know it. I am not talking about a civilised arrangement where we spent eow at my dad's, but one where the pair of them used is as pawns in their ongoing hatred of each other. And, as this was around 50 years ago now, most people didn't have phones, so relied on the post to make arrangements - so much easier to deny ever receiving a letter than a missed call on a mobile. And we didn't have a car, so travel was always by public transport, again, not straightforward. I reckon we saw our dad maybe half a dozen times a year, at most. No holidays, never stayed overnight because there wasn't the room for us. I am not talking about fancy holidays -they usually went camping in the UK, so it should have been possible to accommodate us at least once. But it never happened whereas his dsc went on everyone of those holidays. They also spent every Christmas and birthday with him. We didn't. The best we got was one day, either the weekend before or after.
As far as whether dsc wanted to build a bond, I don't know. But I know they did. And at his funeral it was them who got to travel in the funeral cortege and who were mentioned as his children in the eulogy.
So, as I said if his dsc had missed out one holiday, TBH, tough.

@bananasandwicheseveryday I’m sorry your dad was a shit dad, but you’re massively projecting here. If he’d stepped up in every other way and had one holiday with his partner and her kids it wouldn’t have damaged you. It sounds like your whole relationship with your dad was messed up.
The OP’s family’s situation is totally different, the fact they’re considering everyone’s feelings and see the SC’s regularly in a loving environment already makes your experience irrelevant to this discussion.

Bananas that sounds awful.

Sadly I'm sure there are children experiencing similar today.

That said, that's not the OP's DSC's (based on her posts) nor my DSD experiences.

I didn't set out to be SM - does anyone?

I thought long and hard about my relationship with (now) DH and what it would mean given he had a child from a previous relationship.

In the early days I cared for DSD because I loved DH, but it didn't take long for me to come to love her too.

It's not the same feeling as I have for my child, but it is love.

Like many SM's we are navigating a set of complex situations and trying to do our best for all the children involved.

I appreciate this isn't the case for all SP's but the majority I know are doing the same.

As per my pp I don't expect that my DSD's mother should take into account my child's feelings when planning various activities with her child.....yet there is an expectation from some posters that I should do that all the time in reverse.

There is overall a very insidious expectation on MN that SM's specifically should continually put themselves and their children into a position of submission under a guise of being "equal".

Some posters don't seem to see the irony of that position when it comes to parenting children fairly because their views of equal seem to be totally loaded in one direction.

@DeRigueurMortis Yes, I definitely think that many posters think that SMs should put themselves and their children into submission. In our case, the ex will scream and shout if we do anything that she doesn’t approve of. Regarding holidays, she literally NEVER takes them anywhere. In fact, this week she’s abroad with her boyfriend and they’re with us. Yet we’re the ones doing our sums about future holidays. It didn’t even cross her mind to take them. We always take them and if they don’t come next year it will be because (for once) she’s taken them away! It’s a minefield.

I hear you OP.

We've been in a similar situation (though I have to say overall the attitude towards co-parenting between DH and Ex has been positive).

In our case Ex made a promise to her DD that she would take her on a very special holiday (yep the DLF one) when she was X age.

In the meantime "we" were told we couldn't include this within our holiday plans.

Years go by (including said age of X).

So what to do...we are damned if we go without DSD, damned if we take her....the only "acceptable option is to never go until Ex decides to take DSD. Which might be never...

In the meantime the children are near passing the age where this holiday is most "magical".

Trying to resolve this amicably DH was told by ex that it was fine for us to go away to this destination with DS, but only if he paid for EX, her new partner, DSD and her other half sibling to go the year before we booked it because she'd "promised" she'd take DSD there first - in other words fund a holiday of a lifetime for them in one year (meaning we couldn't go anywhere at all, with DSD or without) then pay to do it again for ourselves.....

@bananasandwicheseveryday I’m sorry your dad was a shit dad, but you’re massively projecting here.

Totally agree with this. Your dad sadly didnt care enough about his biological children to the point you were not recognised as his children in the Eulogy. Very sad indeed....but bit the case here.

DH was told by ex that it was fine for us to go away to this destination with DS, but only if he paid for EX, her new partner, DSD and her other half sibling to go the year before we booked it

I'm hoping he gave an appropriate response to this nonsensical request?

Yes Sandy - the response was appropriate and unequivocal.

It actually led to the situation being resolved (in so far it was such an absurd request we refused to pander the the whole situation any further and went on holiday in France that year with DS/DSD and "did" DLP whilst there as a surprise for both children).

Having got over the "D" issue we've since been to DLF with both children also.

What ages are the kids?

@DeRigueurMortis I’m gobsmacked at that! I thought it was bad enough when the ex wanted us to pay for her to come away with us abroad 2 years ago so she could be the ‘nanny’. Err, no 🤦‍♀️ She seems to think she has this hold over DH and I would have been constantly shoved to the side by her as she would have tried to resume the role of ‘wife’ DH told her to shove it in no uncertain terms as we are a family and that’s that.

@Deemail At the time of the holiday in question, the kids would be 17, 16 and 10 (my DS is the eldest)

Yes - well we were a bit gobsmaked too at the time OP

Again, I do not see why my partner’s children’s needs or wants should come before my children’s
And this is why SM get such a beating. On and on we read threads here about SM moaning because their partner or worse, their own mother want to put their kids first and it isn't fair on the other kids and the SM.

It's this double standards that is shown on and on on these threads that I just can't get my head around. How many times has it been written that SC are not special, that they need to come to terms with the fact that their parents are not together, that the house their dad lives in is not their home, that their dad shouldn't have to pay a penny above maintenance because they are fed and clothed. One a dad dares to want to give something e tra to his kids, it's not fair, they should all be treated equally and his a selfish bastard.

That's not even mentioning the exes who dare want the best for her kids.

But a SM who wants her children needs and wants to come first? Totally validated and common sense! And then the moans about the SCs not liking them and showing appreciation for them cooking their meals!

It really comes as no surprise with this sort of view why some SM are in constant conflict with their partner and step children and why those who wouldn't consider a minute go in on holiday without her SCs, consider her home theirs too experience a great relation with hers!

So swing do you think step children should come before bio children? Are they more important? Do their feelings matter more?

And this is why SM get such a beating. On and on we read threads here about SM moaning because their partner or worse, their own mother want to put their kids first and it isn't fair on the other kids and the SM

Swing you’ve always got an axe to grind. My SCs do not come before my children, my DCs do not come before DP’s kids either.
My children are SCs too you know, I am their mother and I have to put their needs first... just as DP and his ex should (and do) put their children first.

My putting my children first does not disadvantage my SCs in any way whatsoever, but if I didn’t prioritise my own children then I would be a terrible mother and they would be disadvantaged.

Why wouldn’t I consider spending time with my own children and having a holiday with them? My SCs have their own parents, I am not one of them.

What you seem to do @swingofthings is suggest that people’s partner’s children come first, above someone’s own biological children. Why is that? Why do you think my children (who also have a split home and have had the hardship of their parents splitting up) should have their lives revolve around two other children who have their own parents.
Why is that? Can you honestly not see the hypocrisy in suggesting that?

“Treat all the kids equally, unless it’s the children of dad’s new partner, in which case they’re not as important and should never ever be prioritised. However if dad doesn’t prioritise his children in all circumstances then he failing them as a parent”.

Jesus fucking wept 🙄

Also...
It's this double standards that is shown on and on on these threads that I just can't get my head around. How many times has it been written that SC are not special, that they need to come to terms with the fact that their parents are not together, that the house their dad lives in is not their home, that their dad shouldn't have to pay a penny above maintenance because they are fed and clothed. One a dad dares to want to give something e tra to his kids, it's not fair, they should all be treated equally and his a selfish bastard

Literally none of this applies to me. Have a look at my previous threads.

How many times has it been written that SC are not special

No one is saying they are not special, all children as special.
The SCs are just not anymore special than any other children of the household, they should not always come first to the detriment of the other children.
Each situation needs to be assessed on a case by case basis and different children will need to be prioritised at different times... and again shock/horror there are times when the SM’s kids will need to come first to ensure all the children are having happy, fulfilled lives.

So swing do you think step children should come before bio children?
Why are you implying this is what I think? I think all kids should be treated equally within one household? So either they all get the same, or of one set benefits one way, the other set benefits in another way from the same household.

What is not fair in my book is the SM saying that her children gets to go on holiday but not the SC la because they already get to go with their mum, in the same way I would consider totally unacceptable if a father were to say to his partner that he doesn't want to pay to take her kids away and only pay for his children because her kids gets to go with their dad.

Swing you’ve always got an axe to grind
Only when I read such obvious double standards.

No one is saying they are not special
OH yes they do! Not on this thread, but on threads when the SM is annoyed that her partner wants to put his children first and messages comes back with 'They are not special just because they don't get to see their dad everyday. They need to accept that their parents are separated and that they won't get all what they want' because their dad thinks for instance that thry should move where they can have their own room for instance.

Him wanting the best for his kids is suddenly labelled as selfishness, being unreasonable, treating his kids as if they are special. But SM suggesting going on holiday with her kids but not his, that's perfectly OK because it's normal to want the best for your kids!

Each situation needs to be assessed on a case by case basis and different children will need to be prioritised at different times
Of course. So you'd have no issue at all if your OH said that you should go on holiday with him and his kids but tell your kids that they can't come because he and you can't afford to pay for them?

I can think of a number of threads when there was uproar when the SCs got preferential treatment. One thst comes to mind is the OP who complained that her OH didn't want to buy his young DD a bday present because OP had already got her plenty yet gave his kids from a previous relationship very nice presents. Pages of saying what a ass he was and that he should treat all kids equally, what kind of father doesn't get his kid his own birthday present etc...

But comes this thread and it's absolutely fine thst a dad can go on holiday with his SCs and not take his own...