How to tell step-children they can no longer come away with us?

[exwifehell]

Long and short of it is after agreeing we can take them on a family holiday paid for by my parents, exW has since taken it back. There is no time for a court order before final balance has to be paid and I can't expect my parents to take that risk as they have already lost money due to a cancelled wedding thanks to the exW.

They obviously know about said holiday, includes two of their friends (niece and nephew of mine) and our new baby.

This has been done to spite my ex intentionally as he was pushing to finish the clean break order (been left for years and didn't realise once we marry she had a chance to claim on my stuff) .

And no I am not the OW. I met him three years after they separated. We have been together four years. Children very happy here and love their new sibling.

Us not going on the holiday isn't an option either as parents paid for it to celebrate birth of little one and to have family time with us all. And my niece and nephew will already be disappointed enough they aren't coming let alone us as well. We are all very close.

How on earth do we navigate this? The last thing I want to do is hurt them. DF has already stated to exW that it will look terrible to them and that it will leave them feeling not part of the family. No reply.

She has form of pushing my DF out the picture. He has had to go to court already and she ignores the orders.

I believe she has intentionally done this out of spite and to make sure the kids don't feel part of our family (which they are!) . As she got especially nasty since finding out I was pregnant. (Sayi g she shouldnt be born, that DF should leave me) . Encourages the kids to call new guy day etc.

What on earth do we do? I feel so awful for them. I can't believe a mother could spite her own children so much just to get a point score on my DF :(

That is a very fair point. But jesus it sounds terrible for you and your DP as well. Dfs ex refused to let the children see him or our baby for three weeks after she was born. Despite her telling both him and them they could see her as soon as they could. We asked an hour after she was born.

It's very hard. On reading everything back I can see how people assume he just can't be bothered. And tbh I do wonder that at times. Then I see the hurt and the pain and the struggle while the ex just does whatever with no repercussions. I can see why fighting a never ending battle where you're always the bad guy and you've less rights to your own children than the exs new partner would weigh you down.

I'm very on the fence regarding where I stand with DF after this thread. I really hope for the children's sake and my sake he proves all my doubts wrong. Regardless of that I will be putting my foot down on making sure he takes on the parent role rather than the friend role when they are here this weekend. I think by doing it all for him it's been too easy for him to become slack.

"Regardless of that I will be putting my foot down on making sure he takes on the parent role rather than the friend role when they are here this weekend. I think by doing it all for him it's been too easy for him to become slack."

That's a very good idea. By thinking out loud on here and putting your thoughts down in black and white it's become clearer and clearer that you've unwittingly been enabling your DF to be a disney dad. I see many women on the Relationships board saying they want to split up from their abusive or useless OH's but "he's a good dad and the DCs adore him" (why is it always "adore"?!). Scratch beneath the surface and good dad always turns out to mean OH plays with them a bit when not coming home from work late almost every night and doing his hobbies practically all weekend unless nagged to spend Sunday afternoon with his family. DCs adore dad because they live for the little scraps of affection/interaction he shows them. My mum thinks my DH is literally the best father ever to his kids just because he cooks for them and he doesn't shout at them - ffs that's the bare minimum not medal worthy stuff! (he does do more than that as well but you get the jist).

Say it does get too much and you separate from your DF, from what you say he'll see your daughter regularly unless you make contact difficult for him which I doubt you will, so no need to worry about that aspect. But you do need to step back and see the true man behind it all. At the moment you're giving him credit for being a good, involved father when in reality all you're doing is seeing your own actions and concern reflected back at you via him if that makes sense.

Very true. This weekend will be a test for him. I have left him for a couple hours before now and came back to the place a state, kids fighting on the floor and food on the ceiling!

My parents think the same of my DF because he dotes on our little one and changes the odd nappy. But that's with me asking and doing all the bottle making, passing one to him now and them and then getting up to clean them!

He knows what he needs to do. Whether he does it or not will be interesting.

I would never make contact difficult if we split. Even if I ended up hating him, the DC wouldn't so she shouldn't suffer. I'm sure I would find it very hard to let go though. The idea of leaving her in anyones care bar my own is quite sickening! I left her for a few hours once and demanded photos be sent and updates😅

I can tell you this does get better with a defined court order in place.

My OH went through 3 years of hell. His EW using the children as weapons to ‘punish’ him.

Enough was enough and he took her to court. He had a solicitor and barrister the first time, but he now represents himself.

She’s breached the order and he takes her back to court. The last time she was in she knew she was in trouble as social services paid her a visit and the judge threatened a change of residency (see my post above she pulled the children out at the last minute of a previously agreed holiday).

Every single breach he now takes her to court. You can not deal with this woman in a normal way. Apparently all the judges are wrong and she’s a wounderful mother.

He has to fight her. She wants to win. There’s no winners in this, just a father who wants to see his kids.

My advice would be get a watertight order - no room for misinterpretation. My OHs order says he can speak to his children on their birthdays (she won’t let him see them). Last year she refused as it wasn’t his indirect contact time. A threat of court and she’s changed her mind.

I’m a great believer in Kama.....

Exactly what TableMabel said. There are always be these sorts of ups and downs in step families (and traditional families too) when one person decides to make things difficult. Just keep on doing your best for the children and avoiding bad mouthing anyone and the children will appreciate this over time. The ex can not control the lives of you and your family, only her own children and if she decides to do this in a destructive/ negative way the only thing you can do is maintain a positive and welcoming atmosphere in your own home, where you do have control.

Your DH sounds a formidable force Northern although no doubt some would see his actions as being controlling or spiteful.

OP it's one thing to support your OH in their battle, it's another to be the driving force behind it although I do understand how it can grind you down. My DH had a very fleeting ffs I can't do this any more moment regarding his ex's behaviour but we were very lucky in that she wanted the kids the minimum amount of time before maintenance would stop being payable to her so she would never have stopped contact. It must be so much more difficult when you know that threat is hanging over you. However none of this stops him from stepping up and pulling his weight when the DCs are with you. I hope he steps up, don't give in !

@ACatsNoHelpWithThat - how is a fathers actions to be in the lives of his children and take the mother to court if she won’tow it controlling or spiteful?

A father who was stopped for weeks on end seeing his own children. Who wasn’t allowed to speak, let alone see his own children on their birthdays? Who wasn’t ‘allowed’ to go to parents evening, school plays etc because his EW wouldn’t ‘allow’ it. Who wasn’t ‘allowed’ to take the children to see their paternal grandparents? A father who booked a holiday for the kids (on the mothers ‘approval’) which was then cancelled as she’d changed her mind.

If a man had done the above it would be called emotional abuses.

If a mother does it, the man is called controlling and spiteful.

He’s only ever wanted to see his children. I applaud him.

I wounder how you would feel if you were told you weren’t ‘allowed’ to see or speak to your own children?

Oops sorry @Northernspirit having re-read my post I phrased things very clumsily, apologies. What I meant was that sometimes
NRP's can't win - they're a deadbeat if they don't see their kids enough yet if they do fight through the courts their motivation is attributed to them wanting to spite or cause trouble for the RP. The problem with divorce and separation is that everyone gets tarred by the same brush because of the batshit actions of a few, whether that's all non resident dads are crap or all ex wives are crazy contact blockers.

Is the holiday in the UK? If he has parental responsiblity and no order prohibiting contact then he can just take them.

If she calls the police have your documents in order, including the ones where she allowed you to go. They may pay a visit, and check all is ok, but unless the children are at risk that is all they can and will do.

I’d maybe talk to a solicitor and ask advice. What would happen if you turned up as arranged and said come on kids, we’re off on holiday.

Northern- your situation sounds scarily similar to mine. Same issue with birthdays/school events and that. Good on your DH for stepping up and pushing for what he is entitled to though. He sounds like an inspiration for a lot of men in similar situations.

Thank you all so much for your advice and support.

I said to my DF again last night that as much as I know he loves his kids he needs to start acting on it more. That as it stands despite understanding him being warn down with it all, him not fighting for them is an ugly quality. Nor will I stand for the Disney attitude anymore. He is their parent and he needs to fight for them and actually parent them when they are here. That's what they need. He did agree and has a phone appointment with the solicitor today. Fingers crossed this is the start of the end.

As it stands we have decided it is best they don't come to Disney. Not out of not being wanted, they are. But with the youngest being nervous about being away from his mum for longer and the exW ignoring anything regarding having him for longer periods. It was just too risky a task even with a court order. We could have ended up with a little boy feeling forced into spending time with us against his will. Which we don't want.

What DF is discussing today along with the clean break is getting a 100% water tight contact order. Including holiday time etc. We are then going to book to take them ourselves. It won't be for as long, or in an as nice hotel as we can't afford it. But that way we aren't letting them down. Parents have been kind enough to say they will pay for the children's travel/board/tickets to the park. Like they would have if they were on this trip.

It isn't ideal. I feel terrible still. I really hope this is the kick up the arse DF needs to stop messing around and get tougher. If not I can't see a future for us. I have no respect for a man that won't fight for his kids, yet moans about how unfair it all is and how much he loves them. Nor do I want to spend the rest of my life this way. With a partner doing all he can it would be bearable. With one as lazy as mine has been it isn't.

This weekend will be a test to see whether he actually wants to he a parent to those kids. Or whether he just wants me here to do all the grunt work in his life.

So you are off to Disneyland without the step children. Without even trying for a simple variation that would take no effort and very little money. This will determine yours and your child's relationship with them for years to come. I can say this as a sibling of 3 whose father went to Disneyland without his children many years ago, we got mugs with our names on as souvenirs, I really didn't want to say how much this hurt and how much it affected our relationship with our dad but I have never really got over it. I'm an adult now : (

Harpingon there's only so much that OP can do here as it's up to their dad to sort this out, not her. I see this ending in major fall-out with the children's relationships with their dad and divorce for OP. Dad can't be arsed and that's all it boils down to.

Op I haven't posted yet as you have had many suggestions but maybe no long term effects of such a situation.
I share ds's with an arse hole exh who forbid me to see dc for birthdays /Christmas /have holidays /share any days out etc.
I went on to have more dc, aware my relationship with ds's would never be as I hoped /wanted /yearned for.
Guilt ridden I did take younger dc on days out /holidays and gave them birthday parties. To not to would have allowed my exh to also damage their childhood.
And no way was that going to happen.
As older teens now, ds's are nc with exh and totally accept and show me no blame on the decisions I made with their siblings. No reference of being half siblings tho exh tried to drum into them they weren't real siblings.
Ime doing the absolute best for the dc you are able to is all that can be expected from you. Your mental health and your dh's is vital too.
Take care of yourself op.

Perverse you are right, she seems to have the childrens best interests at heart. He is an Arsehole and I am projecting.

I do think it's sad to go without them. I can't remember if it's been said - do they know they were supposed to be going there?

Thinking of you OP and hope he pulls his head out of his arse this weekend. You've gone above and beyond and sound like a great step mum. If only he was a good dad

OP, you sound so lovely. Kids are much more perceptive and understanding than we give them credit for. They might be defending their mum because they love her and know how much she loves them but they will know that she is making things difficult for their dad. The eldest is 10, it eo t be long until she start having a mind of her own and anything can happen then.

Sorry for not replying to you all sooner. Sadly DF ended up in hospital last night over an intentional OD. Apparently he didn't want to die, just didn't want to feel anymore.

I do genuinely believe he tries his best, he is just weak and doesn't like to fight.

After that though he has been referred to the mental health team. I am hoping with the right support he will become the man I thought I was getting involved with.

Only time will tell.

The children do know about Disney. It is a terrible thing we have to do. Not going at all isn't an option as that would hurt my family, including two other innocent children.

We could have gotten an emergency order, but with the exW intentionally putting the youngest off and encouraging what nerves he has - order or not he will not feel comfortable going. Especially as exW ignores all emails regarding having them longer so he adjusts. Neither of us thought it would be right to pry an upset child off his mother to point score.

What DF is doing now that he has spoken to his solicitor is going back to court to get a more specific contact agreement written up. Including half of all holidays and alternate Christmas. Along with being allowed to talk with them on special days.

We will then in the meantime save up so we can at least take them for a couple days.

Its terribly sad that two children are paying the price for their mothers bitterness and their fathers lack of action.

The one slight "positive" that has come from this is I do believe this is the slap in the face DF needed to sort his act out. Which is why i think he done what he done yesterday as he realised how much he messed up.

I'm not defending him. Nor do i forgive him for all of this. I am just hoping it is the start of better things to come.

I hope to God his relationship with his children can make it through all of this. They deserve a dad. A dad who makes more of an effort regardless of how he feels.

And I need to have a peaceful relationship where I don't have to parent my DF and where he is on the ball enough that exW drama doesn't escalate like it has been. I can't take it all anymore. Especially knowing the children are being hurt.

Now I'm worried that with his actions yesterday we will end up with SS here. There is nothing to hide but the anxiety of it all is just too much. I've spent all day shaking like a bloody rattle.

It's like I've walked into a bloofy Jeremy Kyle episode.

So sorry OP. I hope you're holding up ok. This won't be what you want to hear but I think your DF has been incredibly selfish in doing this. As if you haven't been going through enough.

Good god what a selfish bastard he is. What he has done is emotional manipulation as he knew you were very unhappy with him and his behaviour so he's manipulating you into not leaving him. It would make me leave for sure. How bloody dare he. He's given his ex wife all the ammunition she needs to keep the children from him as he will be painted by her, rightly or wrongly, as unstable and not fit to have the children. I didn't have any time or patience for his pathetic excuses for his lack of parenting before and I certainly never will now. How dare he put you all through this while he gets to play the victim. I'm not surprised you're shaking. Flowers and wine for you (my emoticons aren't working).

@exwifehell please don't worry about SS it's unlikely they will turn up. My partner has tried to commit suicide 3 times now and he got referred to MH team but we have never had social services at the door. I can't really give much advice on anything else but didn't want to read and run on the SS part.

I have said exactly that to him. He can't understand why I'm so pissed off. I do understand the feeling, I've been there in the past. But jesus, you have three children. Put them first for once! He didn't even try to fight for support. He chose to go down that route. Less than a week ago I had to go and get him as he was threatening to jump in front of a train.

I'm so sick of this. If he was getting help and support and still felt that way I would have more sympathy. But he chose to risk hurting everyone else rather than do anything.

Now I'm trapped because I couldn't leave even if I wanted to. And I'm not sure what I want anymore. I'm so fed up and drained with it all.

Thank you all so much for your help and support the last few days. It's been invaluable x

I've not posted before on your thread. But... he was a lazy arse, he's now revealed himself to be a selfish, manipulative lazy arse. I do normally have great sympathy for those with suicidal thoughts but in this case (and this sounds awful) I just don't believe him.
I hope this is a turning point for him as you state, but I feel more it is a turning point for you. I would disinvest to whatever extent you can in his recovery and "fight" - it is his to do and I think you need to protect yourself and DD (the old adage about sorting your own air supply first).

I am sorry if this comes across as uncaring/harsh as I do think you've shown admirable perseverance but ultimately I think your perseverance won't be the difference. He steps up or he doesn't. If he doesn't (and despite the potential impact on your DD which I'm not intending to minimise) it really is no reflection on your efforts.

Wilson I completely agree with everything you said. I told him as much myself. I've never been more angry or more disappointed in him than I am now.

I've told him if he doesn't completely change all that I've discussed in this thread he will lose me. And I will only support him the whole time he is supporting himself and sorting his life out.

I do believe what he done was selfish and manipulative. They didn't keep him in overnight (and I know from experience you're usually on a drip for at a minimum a day and a half) so considering how he was acting when he said how many he took, I don't believe he took that many.

I am hoping I am proved wrong and it was a genuine cry for help. Right now I just feel bitter and angry. It has also left me questioning whether this is because of all the hassle with the ex. Or whether she is an ex because of how he acts.

Time will tell. But it will be borrowed time. I am now relieved that the wedding has had to be called off. I have a lot of thinking to do.

We've told the children about Disney and made sure to word it that their mum thought it was in their best interests. That we love them very much and will make sure that once things settle we will all go away together. As going without them wont be a family holiday at all.

They took it seemingly very well. Infact they didn't seem bothered at all. I'm hoping that for their sake that is the case and they aren't just hiding how they feel. I'm hoping that we worded it correctly. You all helped very much in that respect. In a lot of respects. This thread has helped me so much since I posted. I can't thank you all enough.

One thing I don't understand (from Users comments) is how can you possibly be putting your kids first if you feel OPs parents taking the children away on holiday with them is crossing boundaries and is unacceptable because 'what about their poor mother's feelings'.

Why is it not a beautiful and good thing for your children to have even more people in their lives willing to include them and treat them as their own family. Surely the best thing for the children is to be accepted and treated with love by the OPs family.

All this talk of overstepping boundaries and claiming the children as their grandchildren is a load of rubbish and screams of selfishness and the exact opposite of putting your kids first which is said on this forum daily.

Your job as a parent is to strive for and want the best for your children no matter your own feelings or desires.

It's such a warped view on the situation. Children aren't property. No one is claiming them as anything. But showing love and inclusion into the family is a lovely thing for them.

I think it's really great of your parents to be so generous OP and good on them for wanting to include your DSC in their family.

I'm sorry about the other things you've got going on, it sounds like an awful and confusing situation for you