How to tell step-children they can no longer come away with us?

[exwifehell]

Long and short of it is after agreeing we can take them on a family holiday paid for by my parents, exW has since taken it back. There is no time for a court order before final balance has to be paid and I can't expect my parents to take that risk as they have already lost money due to a cancelled wedding thanks to the exW.

They obviously know about said holiday, includes two of their friends (niece and nephew of mine) and our new baby.

This has been done to spite my ex intentionally as he was pushing to finish the clean break order (been left for years and didn't realise once we marry she had a chance to claim on my stuff) .

And no I am not the OW. I met him three years after they separated. We have been together four years. Children very happy here and love their new sibling.

Us not going on the holiday isn't an option either as parents paid for it to celebrate birth of little one and to have family time with us all. And my niece and nephew will already be disappointed enough they aren't coming let alone us as well. We are all very close.

How on earth do we navigate this? The last thing I want to do is hurt them. DF has already stated to exW that it will look terrible to them and that it will leave them feeling not part of the family. No reply.

She has form of pushing my DF out the picture. He has had to go to court already and she ignores the orders.

I believe she has intentionally done this out of spite and to make sure the kids don't feel part of our family (which they are!) . As she got especially nasty since finding out I was pregnant. (Sayi g she shouldnt be born, that DF should leave me) . Encourages the kids to call new guy day etc.

What on earth do we do? I feel so awful for them. I can't believe a mother could spite her own children so much just to get a point score on my DF :(

It reads to me from this and your previous posts that you've known from the off that the Exw was non co-operative and unlikely to change her ways (for whatever reason).
You have options that could ensure the children know you wanted them to be included in the holiday. You could obtain the court order easily in time, your parents can afford to pay to include the children .... so get them to. Worst case scenario the exw ignores the court order, the children will grow knowing their Dad fought to take them and their step grand parents waned that too and paid in the hope they could attend.
It seems to me you are looking for a group of random strangers to reaffirm your partner's behaviour, not fighting tooth and nail to include his children, and you want us all to say don't risk losing the money. It's not about how anyone else views the situation it's how the kids feel. Try and establish openly and honestly with them both if they actually do want to come. If they both do get the court order and deposits paid.
If £215 for the court order is out of budget for you, then your priorities are all wrong and I'd graciously decline the invite abroad, even if it's AI, it will still cost you in passports, beachware, sun cream etc. That money could be better spent showing your SC they are part of the family by way of the court order.

Brake - I will check my inbox when next on my PC. Thank you.

Oh God no. I don't condone my partner not covering his arse regarding this. I told him so the other day. And have been warning him for the last few months she may pull something like this.

She is at fault for doing this to them. He is at fault for not fighting and for taking the belief she would stick to her word purely because it was easier on him than the reality of his situation. Because of both of them the children are left in a terrible position and the rest of us have been hurt also with knowing they won't be there. That isn't just the exW fault.

All I'm saying is I have a level of sympathy and understanding as I've seen him fight incredibly hard, get what was needed, think all was well and then for it all to be the same again. No excuse, but I can understand why he dug his head under the sand.

He is in the position of always banging his head against a brick wall. I know from my own difficult situations in the past that after a while of fighting to make things better just to have nothing change through no fault of your own, it is easy to give up as it all seems pointless.

Doesn't make it right. Far from. There are two innocent children here and they should trump all needs of either parent. Regardless of their feelings. What matters is them.

He has let them down by not covering for himself. But reality is he shouldnt have to. Nor did he expect her to go back on things once the children knew. He was starting court up until that point. He genuinely believed her love for them was stronger than her hate for him.

Sadly this has been a horrible lesson for him.

I should hope this changes his overall attitude in general. If it doesn't then I was clearly wrong about him and will need to recess my feelings for him. Nor will I stay with a man that puts his own needs above his children's.

I have told him all of this. Please don't think I am defending his lack of action. I just have sympathy and understanding for it. Regardless of how wrong.

Also regarding the 215. I have said earlier on in this post I will try and find funds for it if I can. Where we are going isn't sunny so it wouldn't have cost any extra beyond treats for the children, which we were using this months pay cheques for. They already have passports and clothes etc.

I apologise if it looks like I don't care. Or I excuse my DF. I don't. And I do care very much. Which is why I have been doing my best to sort my DF out regarding his head in sand. And I've spent all day trying to work out what on earth I can do to make it better for the children.

As a separated mother I have to say it's possible to feel so ferally possessive about my children I could easily appear to be a twat trying to (over) protect them and I wouldn't care what anyone thinks because it comes from the back of my brain and part of me thinks it doesn't seem right that they are ever away from me. If God forbid you separate from your partner your new daughter will be away from you for periods of time and she may be upset at times. It's really difficult from all angles.

Of course we as reasonable adults see the bigger picture and swallow our feelings because a relationship with their father and any new partner is important and absolutely in their interests. I know fathers can feel the same, of course they can but it's hard to see perspective when you are providing most of the day to day care week in week out. It can be very bloody hard and if the children aren't thoroughly enthusiastic about going to daddy's etc then it's easy to just think well you've had enough shite to deal with kid of mine, you won't go. It's wrong-headed but it's understandable.

Even playing devil's advocate I think you''re absolutely right she should be unclenching to permit longer stays to help them to maintain and build relationships with their father and your family. Regardless of holiday outcome definitely focus on a new clear court order that insists on fairness. I think you're trying really bloody hard and it was very generous of your parents to include everyone so like I said earlier I do sympathise!

Oh God I can completely understand the perspective of that. I'm very much clingy to my little one and the idea of her being somewhere I wasnt to protect her fills me with dread. But if myself and DF split I would have to suck it up for her sake. I'd likely spend the whole time worried sick and missing her terribly but I would like to think I would be a big enough person to know it was what is best for her and her dad. Same with the prospect of having to share her. Naturally I wouldn't like it in my heart, but surely it is better for her to know she is loved and included in both families and not just an odd piece.

Thing is, by her own admission they do her head in with excitement when they ask to come round. So I'm pretty confident that the only worry the youngest has is purely the extra days he would be away from his mum. All small steps we could have worked together on ensuring he was comfortable before we went. And if he still didn't, then that's okay. He's young and it seems scary. I cried when I was a bit older than him when my dad took me away without my mum (together but not a holiday for her) . But my mum encouraged it, built up my confidence. And I loved it.

Only now she tells me at the time she missed me very much and wasn't looking forward to being without me but knew it was in my interests. I never would have gone at all if she hadn't built my confidence up and I'm so glad she did.

I am Team Mum on this board trying to put across the other viewpoint but there is really no excuse for this type of behaviour. If practically you can't make it work this time tell the children the mum doesn't think this is a good idea so you can't come with us. But let's plan something fun for next year that will work for everyone.

Then you partner needs to get his shit together, along with £215, and get back to court, clarify the order and don't allow her this level of control again.

Pink - I couldn't agree more. I have reiterated this to him again when he got in from work. She is to blame mainly but he played a decent sized role in it. Unintentional or not.

Sadly reality is his children need him to fight for them. It can't come from me beyond supporting him as I can't legally stand anywhere on his behalf. Nor should I need to.

He has said he has taken this as a very hard lesson he needed to learn. Fingers crossed this is the case. As he does love those children. Just has been choosing to live in a bubble rather than face his situation.

Good luck 🍀

Thank you :)

Sorry, haven’t read all posts / responses....

But my understanding is that a holiday was agreed. It’s been booked and now the mother is refusing the children attend?

Get to court and get an emergency specific issues order. The mother will have to explain to a judge why she has changed her mind and a judge will decide if the children go. You can get an emergency hearing.

My OH’s batshit EW did the same. 6 months before a holiday was agreed in writing by her (with the 2 x kids grandparents). My OH told her the flight times and all arrangements and she confirmed receipt. Everything was booked and paid for (circa 6 months in advance).

My OH rung the kids the night before and they were so exited (they were 7 & 10 at the time). My OH was due to pick them up to take them to the airport 7am the next morning.

At 11:30pm she emailed him to say she had changed her mind and the children wouldn’t be going.

My OH was devastated. Begged her. She wouldn’t answer messages. He went round to the house and she and the kids weren’t there (we later found out that the kids and her had gone to her parents).

In this case it was too late to get the specific issues order. But he did take her to court for breaching the contact order. She was given a stern taking to and the judge told her that if it happened again ‘he would take the children off her and they would live with their father’.

My OH was awarded the court costs £215 plus the cost of the children’s holiday. When they left court she gave a barrage of abuse telling my OH what a disgusting pathetic father he was for taking money off the children.

You can not deal with these woman they are not normal.

Go to court and she can explain herself to a judge. Good luck.

Any update OP? Has your DP got the application in?

@PrivacySettings - hear hear.....

The latest from my DSC’s mum. Her 13 year old daughter shouldn’t ring or text her dad. He’s only ‘allowed’ to contact the kids as stipulated in the court order (3 x a week).

My OH asked his daughter this weekend why she (his daughter) never answered her phone or got back to him. She said ‘mummy said I shouldn’t speak or contact you’. She’s 13 but very immature.

My OH only has the kids EOW & half of the holidays. On Sunday she phoned the daughter 5 times and texted numerous times.

He spoke to CAFCASS yesterday to ask for advice and they told him to look at their website (basically useless).

Some women are so emotionally damaged they don’t see the damage they do to their own children.

Rant over.....

Northern - I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time. Good on your DP for getting it all sorted out though.

I've spoken to DF about an emergency order. His concern (as well as mine and my parents if I'm honest) is now the youngest has shown some.nerves around it and the mother has influenced this by how she admitted she described it to him, plus the fact she is ignoring emails regarding having him for longer periods on the build up. We are worried even with an emergency order she will encourage the youngest ones nerves and have him back out on his own count. Something we obviously couldn't force him into, and a way she could claim innocence.

We are going to (mainly hom I mean) speak to the children this weekend when we have them and see what the general attitude towards the holiday the youngest has.

In the mean time he is speaking to his solicitor tomorrow regarding getting a much more specific and better order in place so nothing like this can happen again. He is also going to ask where he would stand if he got an emergency order/being able to have the youngest (or both whatever suits the children) for longer periods in the build up.

Fingers crossed something good comes out of tomorrow. When he gets home from work I am making him write down all the questions he wants to ask so he doesn't forget anything.

If a court order issued an enforcement order then if the mother breaches it she will be fined, community service or prison unless she had damn good reason for the breach. The youngest would not get a say. My eldest at 10 was not allowed to refuse to go to her dad's even though she was desperately unhappy. Judge told me to tell her she had to go. I was threatened with enforcement then fine, unpaid work or prison.

Questioning the children and getting their views puts them in a difficult position of them wanting to say the right thing to each parent and probably contradicting themselves by saying one thing to mum and the opposite to dad. It's an u fair position to put them in. The parents need to parent.

Your husband needs to grow some balls and make some patenting decisions, not get his dc to make the decisions. He's looking for an escape to not fight her and then he can just hold up his hands and say ah well I tried when the reality is he passed the buck.

I don't know how you stand his lazy-ass approach to his own children.

Short of it - I don't stand it. I've been on his arse regarding it for a while. He did used to be very on the ball, then what he considered would be the end of it all (court order) just turned into more of a joke and hassle. Sent him into bad depression regarding it all and very much a "what's the point no matter what I do its ignored anyway". Despite this it still pisses me off. There's days, weeks, months even I'm depressed. I still know I need to put my DC and the step children's needs before my own.

I still deal with everything and become his personal PA in regards of what he needs to do and when. It is frustrating and nearly broke us as I have no respect for a man that gives up on his children. It reached a head and it all falling to crap around him has made him (hopefully) realise that the head in the sand approach helps no one. Not even himself.

That is awful about your little girl. No child should be forced into anything. Was she alright about it all? It must have been terribly difficult for her.

We weren't planning on asking opinions as such, just last we saw the youngest he admitted he was nervous about leaving his mum for a longer period. This is how the emails regarding extra time until the holiday came about. Would have been more a "how do you feel now you've had some time to think on it" thing rather than a "what do you want" question.

Would a court order stand even if the youngest flat out refused to leave come the day? I hate the idea of dragging a scared child off his mother. It's so sad. If she had been reasonable none of this needed to happen. Nor would a court order to force a child into something he is nervous on be needed as we could of had build up time away from mum before the actual trip.

To be honest I think even the one time away from his mum at our home for the longer period would be enough to ease any worries he had. Would we be able to get that in a court order? That not only would she have to stand by her agreement to the holiday she would have to help facilitate it by allowing the youngest extra time here to adjust?

I want him to look forward to the holiday because his nerves are eased. Not forced and bullied into it. In his eyes anyway.

My daughter burst into tears and called the judge an idiot and demanded to speak to him herself. She then calmed down but is now 2 years later, not wanting to go again. Sorry, she was 9 at the time, not 10. It will get to the point where I can't force her and she a court can't force me either but that's a couple of years off at least.

I honestly don't know what a judge will do in your situation. You mentioned there's been breaches before. Your DH should have taken her to court for enforcement on each occasion that they missed holiday time or weekends unless ill and an alternative date was offered. He's let her get away with it so she thinks she can. He needs to list each and every occasion when she's breached the order in his application. Maybe post over in Legal for advice on the courts. A judge will take a very dim view of both parents I think. Mum for withholding contact and dad for appearing to not be bothered about it.

Our contact order has every other weekend contact, one mid week contact, and half the school holidays. It lists the dates of contact for the next 12 months so everyone knows exactly when they are where and with whom. If I breached that my stbexh would have me in court faster than you can blink. Even if it's because the children are ill and even if I offer an alternative day to make up for it. But then he's abusive and controlling and he loves taking me to court over the slightest thing. He never wins as it's never a proper breach, just illness, but that doesn't stop him.

I really feel for you because you've been put in the position of trying to do what's right for everyone while he sits back and wrings his hands doing nothing.

His children will grow up thinking he wasn't arsed about them and he'll be twice divorced and lonely because I get from your posts that you've had enough. this isn't your fight but he's making you fight it 

Perverse- I couldn't agree more with everything you have said. I've told him many a times that regardless of how spiteful his ex has been, the courts will also note he let it go on too long himself. He does care, I know he does. But his courts won't see that and nor will the children. I've said to him in the future does he want to he able to show them how much he fought for them by showing how limited contact was until he done xyz. Or does he want to be that pathetic excuse for a father in their eyes that claims their mum stopped it all, but surely if she had he would have fought for what he was entitled to?! I know if I were those children I wouldn't believe it.

It's frustrating as when I see them with him/him with ours, he is a good dad. But I don't want those children growing up thinking daddy must have loved our dc more as he bothered with her yet done the bare minimum with them. Nor should another man be able to slip so easily in the dad role completely. If my DF was more in that role himself he wouldn't have been so easily pushed out.

Depression or not I honestly have had enough of seemingly caring more about his kids than he does. I haven't the mental capacity for it. And unless he really does a complete change I have lost a lot of respect for him. Which is a shame as if I ignore that aspect, he's brilliant. But no one can truly ignore how lazy he has been in regards of his own kids.

It's disgusting that you are stuck in that position yourself. As well as your daughter. The courts need to stop punishing parents and children while allowing free reign of abuse of the system in your case (your ex not you) and ignoring the system in ours.

Sadly I am now stuck in the position of staying and hoping he has learned his lesson. Or leaving and him doing the bare minimum of effort forever with our DC and his children.

Three children would suffer for that. Whereas if I continue to support him and kick him up the arse all three children can end up with a much better relationship with their dad. And all children deserve that.

When I think on it, it's me that does all the actual work aspect of having the children EOW. He is slightly better with our own (I'm wondering if purely cos it is an easier job!) .

I cook for them, clean, sort out silly disputes (they've learned to come to me as I'm normally the one that helps) . I'm the one that gets up in the night if they need something/comfort.

Even when I was up 24/7 breastfeeding, on the rare bit of sleep I got it would still be me going to them if they needed something. Cos he was soooo tired due to his job (he does work very long hours and 7 day weeks beyond the eow with the kids).

I have said to him that needs to be his role. As they need him to be a parent and could end up feeling out of sorts all of that stuff always coming from me. And I chose to date a father. Not to become a nanny.

He is very much a Disney dad through and through. He likes all the fun and the "I love my kids" aspect. But once the going gets tough he backs down as it just isn't fun anymore.

Tbh now I have written all of that I am seriously wondering what on earth I am doing.

I'm sorry to say that it is strongly coming across that he didn't ever wanted the children to come along on the holiday and is doing his best to lay the blame at the feet of the mother to come across as the "good guy" whilst causing alot of emotional damage to the kids. They shouldn't have been told about the holiday until it was all arranged, they shouldn't have the responsibility of having to choose mummy or daddy to upset. It is a mess.

The light dawns. I feel so sorry for you that you are in this mess. You obviously care deeply for your step children. I wish my children had a step mum like you. You've contradicted yourself a bit in your last posts. I think you desperately want to believe that he's a good dad but you say you do all the parenting and he's a Disney dad. At no point have I got the impression he's a good dad. Action not words. His actions are speaking very loudly.

I do wonder as to his ex's side of everything. I'm portrayed as the crazy, bitter ex who withholds the children just to hurt my stbexh. None of that is true but his friends and family believe him so I'm the bad guy. What I am is the product of an abusive marriage, still suffering emotional abuse now from him, fiercely protective of my children and desperately want them to have a happy childhood free from the poison he and his girlfriend inflict on them. There's two sides to every story and his ex might have very good reason for behaving the way she is. I'm not condoning it at all but I'd be asking why? From everything you've said he's not a good husband and not a good father. That makes for one very unhappy, disappointed, disillusioned and angry ex wife. Who divorced who? Is he completely over her do you think or does he need to continue in this state of conflict to stay connected to her? Has he fully let go of his marriage?

I feel so sad for the children but you are putting them first. If only he'd do the same.

Good luck OP, I hope everything turns out for the best 

Simple he knows she a mean women ( I'm being kind her as anyone who prevents dc going away is cruel) and he's a lazy arse ( again I'm being nice) Men and women are different but women still aspect men to do things they just can't or won't.
Most men just do see stuff - like the pen on the side or sock on the floor, and they mostly think if they hold out everything will just turn out fine, because mostly it does just to us women noticing and moaning and reminding them.
Just forget about it now, if they aren't coming try not to fight about it or cause more issues with the mother.
Just help dh ( if you want) to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Sometimes all dc's can't go away together- my eldest two still go away with their dad even if there DB won't as they don't have the same DF.

And Yes men can make out your the bad exw, my ex tried this the other day when I was explaining that ds 11 was having issues and he should address that first instead of booking a week away ( only mention it after booking it - didn't ask if the dc's had plans) when the dc's haven't slept over in 2yrs. Xmas day they made me drive them to their dads and collect them again instead of sleeping the night and I was 8 month pregnant.

He tried to say it's because I have a new gf ( who was going and paying for the trip, they first met her in May), I laughed at him and said when you grow up call me back.
The next day he did and I told him he needs to have some sleeps over first, get her more comfortable with them.
Well he had one sleep over a week before, but they had a good time and he told me having them all week was harder than he thought.

That sounds awful for you. It must be terrible to know the truth and still have it going around how terrible you are when you know you aren't.

I do wonder that if this is his attitude now how on earth she put up with him at times. But on the other hand I have seen first hand years of very civil and polite requests just to be responded with abuse. Or promising things, like this holiday. Just to go back on it. Or alternating contact ro suit her yet never any leeway for him, even on special occasions.

I won't say that I wouldn't be surprised if his attitude is why the relationship failed. But from what I have seen hers is no better.

He is 100% over her and has been for years. When we first told her we were a couple she tried to get back with him and he had no interest (I saw the exchange).

What's sad is I do think on the one hand the alienanating has caused him to back away a bit. Maybe to selfishly protect himself I don't know. I do stand by 100% that he doesn't like the work aspect of parenting though. Which I'm sure caused a few disputes when they were together as they do with myself and him now.

I've taken myself and my baby to bed. Seeing him with her is very confusing. He is the most doting father to her on a daily basis. How he can be that way with her yet not want to fight daily for his other children hurts me. Is it just because she is here? Or is it just because it's a way of showing people he is a good dad on an easy level? Manipulating me so that I can't question his level of parenting? Or is he genuinely a good dad that got screwed over and in turn retreated into himself? And he doesn't feel the need to protect himself with ours as there are no need for court battles/fighting to see her/pain.

I really don't know. I stand by that the ex has been terrible. I know it's hard to believe from how I've spoken of DF but what she does is unforgivable. And he is civil and fair with her. But I am questioning if I am involved with a man that is just damaged. Or if I am involved in a man that unless he has a woman behind him fighting for him, he would give up. And then where would that leave my daughter if the next woman didn't want to help him? Would all three children be forgotten about?

Oh I don't care, that's how I deal with it, because his gf is very lucky and she will know in time because my focus is the dc and create the less stress for me.
On the other hand my dp ex's is vile! She found out I had our son, a few days afterwards ans called his mother asking her to ask him to give up his PR. She cuts the phone off and won't let the ds speak to his dad and then tell the child he did it. ' He said Why do you
Keep hanging up'
What I find the most confusing is she's with a guy who has 3 dc and one was a baby when they met, but she prevent me seeing the ds, and every argument she starts, she says 'your cheating on her ( me) or you left us ( actually she kicked him out) when our son was a baby.
Men aren't perfect and neither am I, but women have to see that not everything they say is gospel or right.
My ex and dp and DF did this at times, they are told to fight fight fight, but I can understand that they find it hard constantly being told they are wrong and abuse, especially when they already feel like they aren't doing enough.
Stay strong