Situation with ExH

[badgerread]

Always had a good co parenting relationship with ExH. Split 7.5 years ago. Quick online divorce in April 2012. Split equity etc. I’ve had a new DP for 5 years although we don’t live together.

ExH moved 130 miles away to be with his new DP and her 4DC in January 2016 and since then our relationship has completely gone to pot. He has reduced his maintenance to the CSA (ok, fair enough, but this wasn't what was agreed when we split) stopped contributing to school fees, stopped attending parents evenings, plays ets as, ‘she thinks he should make his own appointments’, doesn’t call our children, or show much interest, on his weekends doesn’t take our children to their activities or parties as she insists he takes them back to theirs.

It has got to the stage where we no longer speak and the atmosphere on the doorstep at collection /drop off is awful. When she is not around we are civil to each other and have a conversation. She insists on being at every collection and drop off, albeit in the car, so that he no can longer pop in for a coffee and catch up re the children. He has admitted she is jealous and insecure about me but there is no reason for her to be. It has got really nasty over email and text. I know he needs to stand up to her and grow a pair but I can’t help blaming her. She has caused this shift in our set up. It was fine before she stared throwing her weight around. He has blocked my mobile and will 'no longer answer emails', so how am I meant to make arrangements?!

My DP has 2DC with his ex and they co parent as we did previously and I have absolutely no problem with it, surely it’s about the children and their needs?

It makes me feel so down and upset for the children that it has come to this.

In almost every post you've blamed her when it's him who's choosing to be that way, nobody is forcing him he could do what he likes.
I'd say yes and no. Yes it that indeed, ultimately, it is him who has made the decisions that are affecting OP's children, but no because it might very well be that he the thought of these decisions would not cross his mind if it wasn't for his new partner putting them in his mind. It could be just a case of making suggestions that he agrees are good, but it could also very much be a case of indirect pressure and blackmail, which unfortunately, I have very much seen this happen although in a very subtle way with little comments such as 'I'm not too sure why DSS is going to private school, it's not like he is getting good results. It sounds like it benefits more his mum because she can hang around the other rich mums' and then in the next breath 'it's such a pity that I can't afford to pay for DD to go on her school trip, I guess there is nothing that we can do about it'.

Ultimately, any change that will affect negatively the first children is unlikely to be well received. Everyone looks for the best for their children. What some nrp have an issue with is when the new partner believes that their new partner should make the lives of their children better than what they had before at the detriment of the first children, often because of the failure of their own nrp to provide for them adequately.

In the end, as my ex is now seeing, it often backfires when the children don't care about a relationship with them any longer. I'm sure that my ex is affected by it because behind his lack of attention to DS, he still loves him deeply.

I saw it coming, so did his parents and siblings. All have told him, but he chose to ignore us all and listen to his new partner, believing that his son would always be happy to be with them. I'm sure he is now blaming me rather than reflecting on the choices he made, but I really don't care. I did everything I could do to support their relationship, even forcing DS to go when he first said he didn't when he was about 5yo, lied and told him that his dad would have love to come to his parents evenings if he could, that if he didn't take him anywhere with him, it was because he was struggling to pay the bills (even though he didn't pay a penny in maintenance), but kids grow up and quickly observe things for themselves. My son is happy, happier since he isn't pressured to go any longer.

I honestly do think your case is rare though swing. I fully sympathise of course but most new partners don't try and cast their DP DC aside

Again I could be accused of that, but what I have suggested is more fairness and consistency for all involved which includes his DC.

Not that rare TwoDots as my situation is almost exactly the same albeit I do get maintenance. Scenarios sound very similar indeed.

Swift I see what you're saying but there's nothing to suggest the father in this situation is doing anything to prioritise his DPs kids over his own.
He has moved home to be with his new DP but he wants his kids to come to his home when it's his access time which I don't think is unreasonable.
What I'm saying is blaming the NW is not helpful - saying things like "her kids don't miss out" well it's likely because she takes them, its unfair to compare. The same way that people on these boards say to SMs it's irrelevant what happens at mum's house with regards to activities/holidays/bedrooms etc then I think it's fair to say it's none of OPs business what the SMs kids do with their mum - it's irrelevant to her children.

I agree if DF is doing things financially or activity wise with his SCs to the detriment of his own DCs that's not fair but you can't possibly know if that's the case from what OP has said. His DP may we'll provide everything for her children independent of him - which I, and many other mums do especially when DP has kids of his own.
People have made these assumptions about me when in fact I have bankrolled my DP in hard times and facilitated his relationship with his kids if anything.
But it's hard being to he ExW who was used to the family you two created together no longer being the whole centre of his universe - I've been on that end of it too so I can see it from both perspectives which is different to your view Swift.
It's not easy being the SM either and being the scapegoat when relations break down between parents.
I was partly the cause with DP and ExW as he saw myself and my Ex behaving in a much healthier balanced way and he decided that's how he wanted it to be for his own situation... I didn't tell or encourage him to do this but he noticed I didn't constantly ask for cash, last second overnight stays to suit my social life, or continual repairs to my house from my ex. He realised he was being taken for a ride and changed the dynamic to make himself happier

My situation is so similar Kat to your winosaurus

My dps ex would convince the world that I've destroyed everything and that he now cares less about his DD which is NOT the case. He still has her half the week but as he's not changing his plans last minute to suit her, she says he doesn't prioritise his DD. God he plans everything around his time with his DD. Just this weekend he was in London as he wasn't supposed to get his DD til 5 on Sunday. Ex went batshit crazy that he wasn't there to take her at 10 (not prearranged) as she had booked a spa day. She honestly doesn't understand why he's no longer there when she wants him to be. Madness

But she will tell the world how awful he is, and how it's all because of me

There are 2 sides to every story

I'd say yes and no. Yes it that indeed, ultimately, it is him who has made the decisions that are affecting OP's children, but no because it might very well be that he the thought of these decisions would not cross his mind if it wasn't for his new partner putting them in his mind. It could be just a case of making suggestions that he agrees are good, but it could also very much be a case of indirect pressure and blackmail.

See I don't necessarily agree with this POV, though I'm very sorry it has happened in your case swing.

I think often, as someone pointed out earlier, off the back of guilt at the family splitting and trying to do the best for the children, the NRP will agree to an arrangement that stretched them too much and just isn't sustainable when considering that they need to maintain a home for themselves as well.

I agree that certain ideas may never have crossed his mind if it weren't for his DP, but that's not to see that they're not acceptable changes to make. It may be that he's never taken much note of finances and his new DP has got him to look a bit closer and see that he can't afford what he'd been doing previously. Or his rent/mortgage has increased so that it's just not possible for him to continue paying out at the rate he does.

I know that it can happen in a more negative sense and that some new DPs would be looking to cut absolutely everything for the first children, but I can also see how it can look that way to the RP when it's not actually the case at all. Same as TwoDots, I fully expect my partner's ex would say similar things about me when OH and I move in together, but it wouldn't be the case. Sometimes it's not a case of taking away from the children, but rejigging where the money gets spent on them.

Ultimately, any change that will affect negatively the first children is unlikely to be well received. Everyone looks for the best for their children.

I agree, but sometimes this also means that the NRP will have to make difficult choices to improve the children's situation when they're with them. For instance, it might be that OP's ex has had to cut what he pays to her in order to provide a bedroom for his children when he has them.

It may not be that he wants to take anything away from them or doesn't care that his son may be forced to change schools, but that he needs to reduce what he pays to OP in order to provide for them when he's with them.

Exactly this ^^

When my DP split with his ex, he moved in with his mum. As his costs were low he's paid a ridiculous amount of money to his ex. This money could have been put aside and gone towards his house deposit, but out of guilt and obligation he paid more than us sustainable

Now we want to live together but can't afford to. He simply has to reduce maintenance to provide a home and bedroom for his DD. This would be the case if he weren't moving in with me and moving to a place alone. He simply can't afford it

This isn't a case of prioritising my DS, but being able to provide a house, food, clothes, and everything else for her for half the week

If his ex came on her and said 'my ex is moving in with his gf and DS and is now reducing my maintenance' how would it look? What would you all say?

His ex earns the same as DP yet DSD costs my DP more than his ex on a 50/50. Ridiculous

Did you get a financial consent order in your divorce? Usually obligation to pay school fees is laid out in this and sealed the court binding both parties to the agreement.

OP - I think you are being given a hard time.
You agree he can reduce maintenance to CSA - no issue

That he has reneged on other financial issues agreed when you split without discussion - not acceptable. He needs to sit down and work out something with you.

He has admitted that she is jealous and she wants him to have sepaprate appointments with the school etc - he needs to grow a pair and stand up for himself and do what he wants.

No it is not acceptable that a good co parenting relationship has broken down over his inability to grow a pair and the new partner is insecure. That he feels he can reduce his contact time, stop being interested in his own DCS says more about the pair of them and their relationship than anything else.

No it may not be essential that you can sit and have a coffee and discuss joint DCS but it makes life a whole lot more pleasant, better for the DCS - just adults co parenting in a mature way.

Yes circumstances have changed and you do have to lump it sadly( know exactly how that feels) can you resent both his failure to stand up for his DCs and her for changing the stauts quo - yes you can.

Sad for your DCS more than anything - it is a thin end of a wedge that will in my experience get worse.

Good Luck - blame the pair of them - weak willed willy and jealous jane!

As it is often the case, I think it really comes down to a matter of interpretation.

For instance, your example twodots about having to reduce maintenance so your OH can provide a room to his DD when she comes to see him. I can see your point, but I can also see the argument the other way around, which is that if he'd moved on his own, he would still have to provide a room for her but reducing maintenance (assuming he is paying minimum amount) wouldn't be an option. The only reason he can do it now is because of the rules and the impact of moving in with your children.

The argument could also be whether being able to offer a room to the child worth what they might have to give up in their main home because of a reduce maintenance, for instance, they get a room when they visit every other week-end, but they now have to give up their piano lessons which they very much enjoyed and were showing talent in because mum can't afford these any longer. This is where resentment can brew as a result.

I think what many nrp find hard is the fact that they can't imagine themselves in the situation of choosing to reduce their support (financial, emotional, physical) towards their own children to benefit children of someone else. Again, it comes back to something that most resident mothers and SM have in common, they will always put the needs of their own kids first. Fathers however don't and that's what can be hard to accept by their children and upsetting for their mother.

Swift so what would you have the DF do in that situation? Stay and live at his parent's house forever just so the continued maintenance can continue?
In most splits the mother and children benefit most from the housing situation - they are often left in the marital home whilst the ExH has to start again. Many move in with family members to facilitate saving and like Twodots said out of the guilt of not being with their kids everyday end up agreeing to more than what is fair financially in order to appease their ExWs and kids. They only realise its unsustainable when they try to get a property themselves.
There if a reason the CMS calculations are the way they are - they are set at that amount to enable both parents a reasonable standard of living whilst looking after the children.
The problem is a lot of men in this situation move into a different property when they meet a new partner and probably find it financially easier than living on their own as bills will be split because paying all of it out and paying maintenance can be very expensive.
Mothers often have a head start with the property ladder as they can stay in the marital home and many don't have partners move in as it can affect Tax Credits etc.

So the DF inevitably reduced maintenance to the recommended amount and all of a sudden people assume it's because he's prioritising his new DPs kids but that isn't always the case. His DP may be paying for her kids all by herself (as I do and many others) and the DF's costs have simply gone up because he's paying towards bills he wasn't before when living with his parents.

There are lots of activities many children would love to do but aren't financially viable, situations change and it's a shame but it happens. My daughter has had to give up her dance lessons because it became too much of a monthly expense and was taking up every weekend.
Resentment only builds if one parent encourages it. I explained to my daughter why she can't do it anymore and she understood - she's 7 btw and even she grasped the concept without blaming anyone.

Anyway my point is that the DF living with someone does not mean he is necessarily financially or emotionally benefitting those children, physically yes but other than getting primary custody or living with the OP again I don't see how it is possible to physically be there the same amount as before after a split.

Also Swift I have seen you argue the point about all DCs in red household being made to feel like the NRPs home is also theirs. People on these boards have been disgusted when a parent has suggested the NRDCs have a pull-out bed or share a room etc.
I think it is more important for them to feel at home with their dad than to have an extra curricular activity which is essentially a luxury. Surely provided a home for them is paramount?

Providing*

NRP household* I meant, arghhh autocorrect

This is so frustrating

I have stated in black and white that DP paid extortionate maintenance on a 50/50 custody. He's therefore paying more than the recommended amount, originally out of obligation, guilt, and the fear he would look like a bad dad if he didn't

I have also said that if he lived alone, i.e. Just him and DD his financial situation would be the same. He'd still have to reduce what he pays as it's not sustainable

Dp ex and DP on similar wages. Both work ft, she gets cb and money off DP. He's suggesting 50/50 costs as currently the cost for his DD are more for him than her despite similar income and outgoings. But to the outside world he's reducing maintenance so what an awful person he must be

My frustration lies as despite me saying the above, it is assumed had he but move in with me he wouldn't have to reduce maintenance and he must be paying the minimum amount as it is

If he lived alone he'd live in a 2 bed fiat. Move in with me he gets a 3 bed house.

Anyway, just like in OP situation, he ex was paying more than the minimum, he no longer zany and so it's reduced. I agree he's gone about it wrong.

Dad's have a hard time. They are expected to financially support 2 households. Financially mum's get it a lot easier (I speak from experience on both sides)

Twodots unfortunately swift doesn't get it as her DP doesn't have kids so she's never seen the flip side of her situation so she can't be blamed for being biased as she's never experienced being a step-parent.
Both you and I are on both sides of it so we've got a more balanced view

if he'd moved on his own, he would still have to provide a room for her but reducing maintenance (assuming he is paying minimum amount) wouldn't be an option. The only reason he can do it now is because of the rules and the impact of moving in with your children.

But it may not be the case at all that OP's ex is reducing maintenance purely because he legally can now that he's living with other children, but that he's reducing it because his own circumstances have changed to the point he just can't pay as much, regardless of any other children in his household.

My DP would be in this position if we moved in together, and I don't have any children of my own. It's just that he's currently living with his parents and therefore is able to pay more to his ex.

I am not trying to give OP a hard time at all, in fact I feel sorry that she's having to go through this stress, but I'm just trying to present another point of view.

The problem is that when a couple separates, their financial situations usually become very uneven and it can cause friction. I do think that while some NRPs are not as generous as they could be towards their children, often the RP can fail to consider how hard it is to pay for 2 households. Also, I've read of many cases where the RP has signed the children up to after school activities or hobbies without consulting the NRP, and then is unhappy when they won't/can't pay half.

I do also appreciate the extra financial burdens the RP has, as obviously minimal maintenance doesn't go far when you're trying to feed, clothe and house yourself plus your children.

The problem is that once the financial pot is split and now needs to support 2 separate households, both sides suffer.

Ps. To clarify the above, OP's original post stated that her ex has reduced his maintenance to the CSA minimum, so he wasn't paying minimum before.

The argument could also be whether being able to offer a room to the child worth what they might have to give up in their main home because of a reduce maintenance, for instance, they get a room when they visit every other week-end, but they now have to give up their piano lessons which they very much enjoyed and were showing talent in because mum can't afford these any longer. This is where resentment can brew as a result.

Also, surely it's far more important that the child has somewhere to stay EOW (or whenever they're with their NRP) than that they have piano lessons? The NRP needs to consider the child's needs when they're with them too.

If I was an NRP, I would be concerned that my child wouldn't want to come and stay with me for long if I couldn't provide decent accommodation for them. I would definitely prioritise that over any extra curricular activites.

The standard of living needs to be similar in both houses really

DP ex had it good. Last year she went on 8 child free holidays. 8!! How many times did she take her DD away? None. Not once. Yes she went to the farm park with her etc, but all that money DP sent her didn't do his DD much good at all. He was then the one to look after DD during these holidays. He joked that she should be paying him maintenance

I'm sorry I'm ranting. It's something I feel strongly about. Now DP is not using all his holiday to support his ex for hers and reducing money to a fair amount, she tells the world he's an awful dad and it's my fault

Just trying to show a different perspective

There's lots more which I won't bore you with

Standard of living should absolutely be the same. My DC have to sleep on mattresses on the floor while they are with their DF. He stops paying towards our DS education yet goes off on a 10 day trip to Italy with all 8 of them this year plus Disney last year? But has 'no spare cash' How is that fair?? It is something I feel strongly about too!

We don't all 'have it good'. I never go on holiday without my DC. I didn't stay in the marital home. We split the equity 50/50. His attitude towards parenting has changed and the single factor is her. Simple.

I would go legal on this-no longer paying school fees is not on. And I am a step mum and I find his attitude horrific. Yes he has his own life and yes he probably needs all the kids to get together but how about he brings new woman and her kids down to his parents once a month on his weekend so his kids can actually live their lives.
Really surprised there is so much support for the ex here/ he has in effect given up on his kids and their needs in order to keep new woman and her kids happy. Totally not on. Invite them in to discuss but if no joy, seek legal advice at least. The fees are a huge burden and if the kids have to eventually change school because of this, they will suffer (potentially, am assuming they enjoy school).
Sorry you are in this mess OP and hope your kids are OK.

Sorry OP, I've totally hijacked your post with my own frustrations. It's been a hard week with the ex

I don't for one minute think you've got it good. I know all situations are different.

As I say I don't think the school fee thing is right with how it's handled. Just try and refrain from blaming her for everything