What happens if we just reduce child maintenance ??

[chablisfan]

Hi
Would really appreciate some constructive advice
Please please please no step mummy bashing.. I do not have poisonous apples and I think they are beautiful and amazing kids. Ok ? ??????please be nice.

Have DSS 8, DSD 5 and DSD 4
Also my DS 8 ( I divorced when he was 3)
DP shares with his ex 60/40 residence order.

DP had separated from and lived apart from ex before youngest born for reasons it isn't my place to post .. But it was more than understandable he chose to leave... Trust me on that one..... Plenty of eye witnesses etc.
if you have ever been in the divorcee late 30s dating arena then you will know all their ex wife's are " mental" ( usually an emotionally unsupportive ex husband referring to Post natal depression there ) ... But there is the odd genuine crazy lady out there ??

I met him a year later. We are in process of slowly "blending " the 2 sets of kids and so far so good... Play dates, weekends, progressing onto holidays etc....plan to buy house together. My son and I will move to Scotland , where they live, from London so we can all be together as much as possible as DP travels for work so much.

Reading some books on it, getting some advice, having a few 5 minute sulks at each other and then realising amazing kids are just getting on with it beautifully thank you very much and we can open the wine now!!

He tried to keep divorce as amicable and low key as possible for all. He was financially very generous to the ex.. In fact she wouldn't agree to the divorce and withheld the children etc etc to procure even more money... Basically he paid through her through the nose in order to secure a split residence order....this has just been done. ????

They drew up a childcare and financial arrangements agreement ( Scotland so slightly different divorce procedure) he voluntarily paid all legal costs.
He pays her 1200 a month .. Well Above csa ... And mortgaged himself and borrowed from parents to leave her mortgage free. She got half pension also. He just wanted to get away from her but not lose his Kids and accepted she wasn't going do it unless she got cash. she retained her own assets from before the marriage.. He pretty much gave her his.

She was working freelance occasionally.
Now she is working permanently
For some reason her yearly earnings slip went to his address.. Same last name so easily opened. Omg ???? she is earning a lot of money. Nearly as much as him given tax situation.

Yet she keeps pleading poverty and asking for half her au pair costs etc. He and now we pay for clothes and toys for them .. DSS don't even have dolls at home or dress up princess stuff and kept turning up looking like Amish kids in dungarees. It makes them happy so that's great and they are so lovely ... But where does her child maintenance go ??????

So... I am getting to the point i promise..
In the divorce agreement she insisted on the wording " pay £1200 a month maintenance or csa whatever is the greater" .
Is he able to reduce his monthly maintenance payment to her something nearer csa ( actually £ 800 when she wasn't working but given her wages actually less, although we don't want to risk the kids going without)

???????

My spousal maintenance from my ex is going to stop when I move in with DP. I have sole custody of DS but I work part time at a job I love but isn't going to pay the mortgage ( just extras really ) and DP has a great job he loves with super perks for us as a family... Pays welllish but tax man really gets the main perk. So we are up against it

We want to send kids to private secondary school if we can (the 2 boys both seem to need smaller class sizes and we have had some
Bullying issues which were really upsetting) ... Neither ex will help with fees.

It isn't really possible for DP and their mum to sit down and chat it over... She really has a lot of bitterness toward him for going against God and nature and breaking up the family etc. and I am the whore of Babylon obviously so not me either.

Anybody know how it works?
If he just reduces the monthly amount is he going to be in huge trouble ? I am pretty sure from my googling he does have grounds to reduce it but given that line in the court order ????

Every time you ask a solicitor a question it costs about a million quid!!

Really grateful and sorry such a long winded essay here!!

.

I agree with numtum - the degree of wealth that is being alluded to by the OP means that this is not a typical CSA/CMO situation. I don't know the exact figures, but financial settlements that are agreed in court hearings (all be it, this one was settled at the 11th hour) are in the minority - most are agreed through negotiation, sometimes with the help of mediation, and are rubber stamped by a judge.

So, if the ex's income/lifestyle was a factor in the financial settlement, then there may well be a clause that allows it to be revisited if those circumstances change; if her income changes, the DCs change school, she remarries or cohabits, for instance.

But, it doesn't take away from the fact that it is none of the OPs business - other than to ensure that she is happy with whatever financial/childcare arrangement she and her BF agree to before she moves in.

How many MN threads relate to issues that have no impact on the OP? No reason why she can't post about it, though!

When will people grasp that the reasons for splitting have Absolutely no bearing on child maintenance payments? Was there really any need to put all that in your op?

Just read the details again and tbh it doesn't read like the financial agreement for the DC was anything other than standard maintenance. If it was based on the exes income too there would be no need to question if they can reduce payments as it would be legal based on the terms of the agreement.

I think the OP and her BF are just miffed that the ex is earning a more stable income and now for some strange reason think it is ok for the father to pay less for HIS children. They are his responsibility and he should pay what he can afford regardless of his exes income.

Nor do I understand what the whole frozen dresses dungarees thing has to do with anything. The OP doesn't even live with him so what the hell has it got to do with her what they wear?? Or maybe it is the OPs way of trying to paint the ex in a bad light again

The OP stated later that her income had been a factor and that the agreement was £1200 a month or CMS whichever was higher.

Ahh seen it now however it states that the agreement was based on her earnings then and no mention of a reduction if it changed which leads me to believe there was not a clause for that in the original agreement because if there were the DP Could just reduce the payments without question and this post wouldn't be needed.

Quite possibly.

regina there's very little need for most posts on MN - what a somber, emotionally heavy place it would be, if that were so!

I don't understand the 'doesn't spend it on the kids' thing at all.

How could you possibly tell what she spends it on? She has a house big enough for her and three kids, so it must cost quite a bit to run, council tax, utilities etc. That alone could take the £1,200 or a goodly chunk of it. Then presumably she has a car they all fit in - that costs money. And feeds them, clothes them, they sleep in beds, with sheets on....

OK, they don't have Disney dresses, they want them - so what, this might be a parenting decision rather than a cost one. Not all parents want their kids to buy into Disney fantasies and can be quite strict about it. Plus, frankly, it's pointless frippery, isn't it? What they need is decent clothes. You know, like hard wearing dungarees.

I'd (nor dp) never question what DP's ex spends her money on. It has been a bit frustrating since she changed to a f/t job instead of p/t - not because I think she earns more (it never occurred to me, she's not in a highly paid profession anyway and as someone else said, she will have lost tax credits I expect) but because it means she's not there when dss gets home from school now, so a) she makes him come to us more (we like having him, don't get me wring, but it causes logistical issues quite a bit of the time and I can't help but think the poor lad must feel constantly rejected) and b) dss has started behaving really badly.

She has a house big enough for her and three kids, so it must cost quite a bit to run, council tax, utilities etc. That alone could take the £1,200 or a goodly chunk of it. Then presumably she has a car they all fit in - that costs money. And feeds them, clothes them, they sleep in beds, with sheets on....

Those are all things that a NRP with 40% care has to provide too, though.

I get CM from DDs dad despite us having equal care; the CM pays for things that DD only needs one of - laptop, mobile, school uniform and trips etc.

When care is shared more or less equally, the day-to-day expenses in both households are the same, give or take the odd meal and washing load here and there. If CM is being spent by the RP on expenses that the NRP also incurs then the distribution of financial liability is not being met in a way that it equitable to the care arrangement in place.

£1,200 a month is £92 per child a week. I don't think that it's actually that much when you think how much private schools cost...

Haven't read the whole thread sorry but don't understand why the op is getting such a bashing. £1200 pm sounds like a huge amount given that residency is just shy of 50/50! I am not sure of the legal standing of a divorce agreement and really think that if your dp (rather than you) feels it's unfair and/ or illegal then it's worth paying a solicitor to look at it properly. Lots of family lawyers do a free 30 min consultation.

I don't care how you came across the payslip - things like this can and do happen, but who knows. BUT maintenance has nothing to do with her earnings, it's an equation that is applied to ensure the dc get what is needed to raise them. All the other musings, what ifs and various circumstances would be thrown out by a court of law whicb deals in fact and legislaton. However, on the face of it, it does seem pretty heavy to be paying that much when the residency is 60/ 40.

Excellent post Peruvianlover

When care is shared more or less equally, the day-to-day expenses in both households are the same, give or take the odd meal and washing load here and there

it is a logical conclusion to come to, but it isn't necessarily the case. I have previously shared care and I paid for everything for 3 children - full time childcare, all school uniforms, shoes, haircuts, toys carried between 2 houses, all school trips etc. My ex wouldn't pay anything at all - so what was I supposed to do? The legal system won't help me as he's self-employed. There is also a need to consider which parent is expected to take time off due to child illness - my children might have been with the ex half the time but they were with me on ill days (literally dropped on the doorstep without notice). I also have a household to run - why should my career suffer because he's not willing to either do his fair share of caring (genuine caring) or pay extra in child maintenance to help cover those costs?

I also dislike the notion that separated parents should, by some kind of default, share the costs of bringing up children on a 50/50 cost basis. It is very rare that a 'together' family would do this - SAHPs, for example, don't contribute financially but are suddenly expected to pay for half of everything when the relationship breaks down? Seriously, how is that even reasonable? Similarly, where one parent is a consultant on £100k plus and the other is a nurse on £40k, their respective contributions towards bringing up the children will never be equal. I am not sure why that should change when separated? I do get, before anyone says something, that resident parents (or those classed as resident parents) are entitled to tax credits etc. but frankly, no amount of benefits is going to make up the disparity in incomes between my ex and I. Of course, benefits can tip the balance the other way, I do get that.

There is a one-size fits all in place and that's what we abide by. But I do think the notion of 50/50 is, at best, disingenuous for the majority - which ever side of that 50/50 they may be sitting on.

Too many people forget that supporting the children financially is the responsibility of BOTH parents - it's not always up to the father to bank roll everything forever.

Sorry OP, but you do come across as unpleasant. 'I'm so reasonable but she doesn't buy the kids dolls and they wear dungarees!' Unless you're breaking into her house you don't know what toys her children have. It's very unlikely they don't have any. What they play with at home is none of your business, and either you are asking them leading questions, or they have learned that Mummy bashing is a winner with Daddy and his partner. Unhealthy either way. Same thing with the clothing. Some people like to dress their kids more traditionally. From the sounds of it you spend a lot of time obsessing about this woman and how she chooses to parent. Perhaps bitterness about money is behind that?

Those are all things that a NRP with 40% care has to provide too, though.

I may have misinterpreted but i think melonfool was simply pointing out what the maintenance will have been spent on, in response to OP's "But where does her child maintenance go". I dont think she was saying "oh but look at all these expenses RPs have" in an attempt to justify the maintenance figure.

Too many people forget that supporting the children financially is the responsibility of BOTH parents - it's not always up to the father to bank roll everything forever.

How is that comment relevant to anything on this thread?

Clearly we're discussing quite high earners here if he can afford to pay £1200 pcm, that's more than I earn in a month!

However, it does seem a lot considering that their dad has them 40% of the time.

Am I correct in thinking that if they had 50/50 shared care neither parent pays the other child maintenance?
So £1200pcm when she has them only an extra 10% of the time seems steep.

Yes I know the ex's income is irrelevant in the eyes of CSA but if both parents have similar incomes and they both have similar over heads in looking after their children, then is it really fair for the NRP to pay such a large sum to the other parent?

My friend's DH has his children approx 60% and their mum has them approx 40%, nobody pays a penny in maintenance.
But I expect people's views on that would be different because the roles are reversed.

Yes, my comment was that was what the maintenance goes on - not that the NRP didn't have to pay it (though the NRP can often get away with a smaller house).

The bottom line is, when people split up, there usually isn't really enough income to provide two separate homes in most cases.

Ha ha remove yourself from up Peruvians arse petal it must be stifling up there in this heat!

I'm not 100% sure but I think this OP posted about the divorce recently in another thread, maybe in AIBU. Similar scenario and the divorce and financial settlement was just agreed to in the last couple of months. DP had to keep upping the financial settlement in order to obtain a divorce from the ex. From little bits, other posters seem to think he was a pilot or works for an airline or at least in the travel industry. OP was in the same industry because that's how they met. Ex wife lives in Scotland with the children. OP moving to Scotland but I think they want to live near the airport because of their jobs. Could be a different poster but the situations are so eerily similar that it could be the OP. It was just an interesting scenario that it kind of stuck with me.

The above means nothing really but maybe gives context that the DP wanted a divorce so badly that he agreed to some conditions that he might not have liked. Maybe now, remorse and anger is settling in and he's trying to wiggle his way out of these terms before the year is up. He should really contact his lawyer instead of posting on a board. He will receive factual advice.

Regina is there any need to be so unpleasant? I simply agreed with Peruvian's sentiments.

I will also just say on a practical level (rather than the morals of the scenario) ... The ex has a history of threatening to stop contact when things don't go her way. OP, I would advise your DP to think very carefully about whether he really wants to rock the boat by reducing payments.
Even with a residency order in place, she can still restrict contact or at least make things difficult for him if she wanted to. Some RP don't give a crap about what a piece of paper issued by a court says. It's fairly easy to get a court order, enforcing it can be a totally different matter.

We could argue all day about what he should or shouldn't be paying, but maybe £1200pcm might be a small price to pay if it means he gets to maintain a good relationship with his kids?
It's wrong that some RPs sometimes hold their kids to ransom, but speaking from experience, sometimes it's easier to just keep your head down, stop the battles and just do what you have to do to keep the peace, for the sake of the kids.

petal there's very little need for most posts on MN - what a somber, emotionally heavy place it would be, if that were so!

Good point CandyLane.