I was a Big Evil SM :(

[size4riggerboots]

Well, I feel like I was anyway.

Since I last posted here over well over a year ago ( backstory here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/1846550-Hi-New-here-just-trying-to-figure-a-few-things-out-advice-welcomed ) things have been going well. I've been away at work for 253 days out of 365 (I just did my tax return), we bought a house, which DS loves too. She is now 8 and a half, and we still have a great relationship, still struggling with knife and fork, can read and tell the time but doesn't want to bother so says it's too hard. Plus, DP and Ex have got on well for the longest time ever, even now things are going tits up!

FYI I have been at sea since just after Christmas, and came home for 6 weeks leave at the end of April, so we've had 2 weekends with her.

1st weekend: So here's the issue: she sucks her thumb. (Ok, so she also needs asking 15 times before she does something and flies into a tantrum when she doesn't get her own way but we're mostly competent at dealing with those things). I realise that there are people who will say it should be stopped because of how it may affect her teeth, and those who will say let her do it it's a great comfort, and I understand both of those view points. Personally I think it encourages her to be babyish (there a multitude of other babyish habits, but that's for another time), and is possibly contributing to her being bullied at school. For these reasons, her mum is also of the opinion that she needs to stop sucking it, but her greatest weapon seems to be the threat of removal of the all hallowed i-pad. (Knowledge gained in the conversation I had with Ex herself, after the event..)

I (and DP) believe in the power of consequences, (frankly if I thought for a second I would ever in a million years get away with a short sharp smack across her bum, I would [never did any lasting damage to me and I damn well remembered the lesson]) so I threatened her with something much worse. Pepper sauce on the thumb. She looked suitably terrified and the thumb was absent for a while, over the rest of the weekend I continued to try this and it worked pretty well. She had a sleepover with 2 friends at our house (Ninja surprise attack of "Dad, can they sleep over?!?!?!" ....."Errrrr, if their mum doesn't mind" sigh) and was knackered on sunday morning. And when she's tired the thumb automatically goes into the mouth... Now, after telling a child the same thing over and over again every minute or so for half an hour (this may be an exaggeration but it felt like it) I was getting pretty damn annoyed. And I got the pepper sauce out of the cupboard.

Meanwhile her dad is also getting frustrated, for the same reasons as me, we're all in the kitchen at MIL's house, so she's talking too, and (Oh the power of hindsight and analysis) poor wee DS is getting just as fed up with it all as we are, and she's tired, so the thumb just keeps popping into that mouth.

I wasn't thinking like that at the time though. I felt like she was just doing it to piss us off. So I did it.

She was (understandably) not happy at this turn of events. However, the fireworks only lit when she licked it. I put tabasco-frikkin-sauce on her thumbs, how frikkin dumb am I?!? I realized immediately that I had gone too far, but hindsight, even a second after, is too late. Of course she rubbed her eyes then because she was crying. Oh god I felt bad. We washed her eye and then MIL swept her away from me for cuddles and comfort (she was [again, understandably] pissed off at me right then). When we'd all calmed down, I did apologize to DS and we had cuddles and then lunch and then the long drive north to return her to her mum. She called her mum from the car and I was surprised (and relieved) to note that she did not mention the incident. I decided that I ought to admit my mistake/fuck up to Ex at the handover and when I had she said that she'd rather I didn't do that I agreed and apologized again, deeply aware of how well within possibility it was that she could have thrown a huge fit at me (heck if the shoes were on the other feet..). I got hugs and kisses as we said goodbye (from DS, not ex!)

2nd weekend: So, it kinda felt like we'd gotten away with it. We had a great weekend, on friday I had a meal ready and waiting when they got in, bedtime not too unreasonable, saturday we visit my sister who has a toddler, DS and my nephew get on like a house on fire, DS is asking questions about whether she'd be part of mine and my sisters family if DP and I got married, lots of hugs all round... Sat eve we have the usual phone call to mum/ex and she comes up with the idea of a treat if DS only has to be told to stop sucking her thumb say, 3 times in a day. More than that, no treat. Super idea, says I, lets try that, and because she's been so busy and engaged all day we've barely had to tell her to take her thumb out so she gets a small chocolate egg and everyone is happy :) Sunday, I'm making my first ever roast leg of lamb (It was home grown, I come from a family of sheep farmers, this is as close as I come to religion) MIL comes over to us, they all watch a film, I cook in a happy domestic bliss... Watching TV being the second primary trigger for unconscious thumb sucking, it's popping into her mouth more and more, I'm keeping away from this though, it's her Dads job to deal with this one, I overstepped the mark once, not going to risk it again. So last weekend DP came up with the idea of masking tape around her thumbs, and decides to try this now. And actually, it works.

It worked up until the point that DS was told that, now the film was over she needed to practice her lines. (She wants to audition for a drama school). Didn't want to practice her lines. Gets out her phone and calls mum. Mum says she should do her lines. Suddenly the masking tape on her thumbs is the most awful thing ever, she can't get it off and she won't let anyone take it off because she's scared it will hurt. I do my very best, I'm on my knees, calm and soft voiced, offering to help but she doesn't want any of it, so I suggest that she needs to calm down and then tell us what she wants because we can't actually understand what she's saying, and maybe she should go and sit in her room while she calms down. She calmed down a lot after that, (perhaps because not being seen while you're being upset is not as effective). So after that's all cleared up, we have a lovely lunch (she ate everything and asked for seconds which is high praise indeed) and in the car journey north I only have to tell her three times to take her thumb out (so no treat..). Handover is happy happy, DS is excited about the prospect of next time we have her which will be a bit longer (half term) and we can go visit my folks in idyllic ...shire, (she LOVES the dog), Ex and I have a genuinely fun chat about DS's "boyfriend"... everything seems pretty peachy.

And now DS is apparently refusing to come down to see us, to the point where she would rather stay in her grandparents caravan than go home with her mum because "Daddy doesn't know where to find her and can't come and take her away". So suddenly we're at the point where Ex is saying she's going to break the court order, and we're going to have to pay for mediation, play therapy and generally jump through hoops again so that DP can see his child. The fact that Ex is still being calm and friendly and genuinely perplexed as to the origin of this behaviour is good, but I don't trust her parents not to be muttering things into DS's ear (their dislike of DP is intense, vitriolic and longstanding. In the years before DS was born, when DP and Ex were together and we were all friends she told us herself on may occasions how manipulative they were). However, I'm deeply worried that one of the driving factors may be that we've gone too hard on her about the thumb sucking thing and she now thinks that we're going to demonise her about it. The fact that she won't talk to her mum about it either suggests to me that perhaps we've almost gone too far on providing a united front...

It could be something completely different, but I really needed to vent all that anyway. I apologise for the ridiculously long post and thank you for bearing with me if you got this far.

Your last paragraph in your post at 11.19 completely disagrees with your stance throughout that all abusers know what they're doing . You've basically just agreed with all those saying the opposite, which is good to see but a bit confusing.

iamdaft this wasn't a spur of the moment thing - it was planned, threatened and carried out. The op wishes she could hit the child. She explains her post with shit injections of humour. When she should really be hanging her head in shame, She is abusive.

Iam I kind of understand what you're getting at in terms of the word abuse being overused on MN. It possibly is but it is surely healthier for us as a society to err on the side of caution in these cases. Abuse starts somewhere, you can have families where some children are well looked after and one is abused, there aren't always patterns.

I'm guessing that as you work at the harsher end of the spectrum you have become desensitised to your work which I totally understand. I often see this in CP social workers where neglect that would make us feel shocked isn't always such a big deal as they have so much to consider in these cases.

However, my most up to date training said that we are going back to looking at the smaller signs to make sure nothing slips through the net. There is a big emphasis on emotional abuse and neglect as these are harder to see but no less relevent.

I would never be dismissive of abuse. I have been in an abusive relationship myself. I see this every single day of my professional life and it's appalling. But there is a massive difference between parents who are completely misguided and need steering in the right direction, and parents who are downright abusive.

Do you mean this paragraph? Then no, I haven't contradicted myself, because misguided parenting is not the same thing as abuse!

I hope i shouldnt need to tell you that in order to stop something happening you need to understand why it is happening.

Yeah, I would go tell that to all the women who have lost their lives attempting to stay in abusive relationships because they thought they could understand and change the person they were with.

I do think it sounds like you could do with maybe some retraining or changing to another area of abuse work to remind yourself that what you are currently seeing isnt the only definition of abuse

As previously mentioned, I have said that I specialise in emotional and subtler forms of abuse, so I know this, thank you.

I know in our modern PC world this isn't a popular opinion, but some people are just evil, and there isn't any rhyme or reason to it.

Are you saying then, that if a parent strenuously beats their child because that is how they were brought up themselves and know no better then that is not abuse? The only time it's abuse is when it is planned and they know what they're doing?

Yeah, I would go tell that to all the women who have lost their lives attempting to stay in abusive relationships because they thought they could understand and change the person they were with.

Umm, surely you realise i mean YOU as a professional (and the professional world) should be looking to understand where the abuse is coming from in order to stop it! I do not mean that victims have an onus to understand their abuser FGS. Do you actually really work with real people?

Fucking hell iam. I did work with abusers for a few years in prisons.

If anyone I worked with said 'some people are just evil, there isn't any rhyme or reason to it'. I'd have been horrified and think at best they were 'burned out' and maybe needed retraining or a change of career. At worst, I'd think they really weren't the sort of person who should be working in the field.

I am really gobsmacked at the ignorance of a professional who has access to vulnerable people. That is really worrying. Is CP/DA training really that lacking?

Yeah, I would go tell that to all the women who have lost their lives attempting to stay in abusive relationships because they thought they could understand and change the person they were with.

Umm, surely you realise i mean YOU as a professional (and the professional world) should be looking to understand where the abuse is coming from in order to stop it! I do not mean that victims have an onus to understand their abuser FGS. Do you actually really work with real people?

I think low, victim-blame-flavoured deflection is all she has left in the bag Surly

I think the fact the poor girl wants to live in a caravan with her grandparents says a lot about her biological and step parent.

ALL of you have created a united front and starte a full on war over thumb sucking. Thumb sucking FFS.

Hardly the biggest issue. Yes, it may cause her difficulties with teeth and bullying etc. but then again maybe, just maybe, she sucks her thumb for comfort over the bullying she's receiving at school and in both her homes.

You do realise that the constant stream of don't sick your thumb will make her want to do it more? She'll need to seek that comfort.

Best technique for changing the need to suck a thumb is distraction. Thumb in mouth - offer glass of water, card game, going to park etc. never mention it's due to thumb sucking as using the wo creates the subconscious to think thumb sucking and therefore want to thumb suck.

I suppose we should be grateful that you know your actions were cruel and unreasonable.

Firstly regarding posts stating that no step parent should ever be involved in disciplining a child (I realise many people have said the opposite, but some seem to believe that this should be be the case). I am a SM to husband's 7 year old daughter. I have lived here since she was 3yo. She is resident with us. Since last summer, husband works FT and I do much of the school stuff, cooking and eating meals, homework, playing etc. Only now, 4 years later, I am involved in disciplining her - but in a MUCH smaller role than my DH.

OP - the fact that you irregularly appear in what is supposed to be one of the safest spaces in her world in a transient fashion and by the sounds of it you don't stop bullying her from the moment she arrives to the moment she leaves, is going to SERIOUSLY damage this girl's relationship with her (useless-sounding) father, let alone her own frame of mind.

All your talk of hugs and happiness sounds extremely dubious to me. Are you pointing this out because there are plenty of instances where your husband's daughter withholds this affection?

You sound like a monster. If you want to change yourself you'd probably be best advised to leave your partner, leave the military/your job at sea, and start way back when to try and work out what had damaged your capability to be a human being.

Anyone in any form of a parental role, as you appear to see yourself, should have an overwhelming instinct to protect a child. You appear to have an overwhelming instinct to scare, control, HURT this child.

The tone of satisfaction in your post is horrifying.

I feel that you should reply and inform readers of this thread what outcome this sorry, nasty tale has.

Your partner sounds very likely to lose his contact over this. I have a feeling you'd actually like that.

You sound absolutely vile and I can totally understand why DS wouldn't ever want to come back to stay with you. You are abrogating responsibility for your cruelty with "I was at the end of my tether"? Get a hold of yourself.

Actually what makes me think OP is abusive is the depersonalising way she is talking about this child, not the specifics of the incident though it is obviously also worrying and the combination is a concern.

Where is the OP anyway? I'm still struggling to believe that this story isn't made up.

I reported it this morning and they're looking into it. I just think if I'd deliberately hurt a child I wouldn't try and be funny when posting about it on here. It all just reads wrong to me

Well, I probably ought to stop reading the replies now, but as I said in one reply last night, this is what I was expecting, I feel I deserve it. Plus, in amongst the vitriol and horror and debate about what defines abuse, there is sensible advice, which I am taking to heart.

I would never ever hit her, I was only occasionally smacked on the bum as a child when I was acting up, my childhood was happy and healthy and I knew that if I got a smack on the bum it was because I had crossed the line. I would never hit her because it's not my place to, because I know there's a line, but I don't disagree with smacking children occasionally, when there is good reason. I'm allowed to think things, am I not? I repeat, I would never ever hit her.

Her mum and dad both really want her to stop sucking her thumb, and I got carried away, I certainly didn't sit premeditating with an evil grin, I said the first thing that popped into my head and didn't stop to think it through. Now I can see how all three of us all nagging at her to stop sucking her thumb is counter productive, and I know I need to step back, and I will. I love her to pieces and am heartbroken to think that my actions have caused this. It was two incidents, and I realise how much damage they have caused, but they are isolated incidents and we have learnt from them and are working toward making amends. We're not awful people, we're just blindly stumbling through the world trying to work out how to deal with the cards life has dealt, and yes, sometimes we get it wrong.

As for my style of writing, I wasn't trying to be funny, I wasn't trying to sound happy about what I did, I felt the need to give a full account of the situation, I needed to talk about this, and to work out for myself through doing so what I need to work on. There are some very useful and insightful comments on this thread and I am grateful for them. I have been discussing things with DP (who currently thinks I'm an idiot for putting myself through this on here) and I will be backing off, I'm ashamed of my actions, and I know there is no excuse, I'm an adult, I should know better.

OP can you clarify the genders of the people involved please?

You are female and work offshore, I take it? Or not?

And do you have a DSD or a DSS?

This would all be much easier to follow without the ambiguity.

Yes, I'm female, I work offshore, my DP is the father of DSD.

My apologies for any confusion my use of DS has caused, I'm not a regular here.

Thanks.

I'm surprised you haven't had more of a reaction from the girl's mother TBH.

Arsenic Honestly, so am I. I think the fact that I owned my (huge and hideous) mistake and made it clear that I am deeply sorry, and will never try anything like that again, helped the situation. Years ago that story might have been different and there would probably have been shouting and fighting, but we're all very aware of how that would affect DSD.

Have you considered a parenting course?

You need to work on making a child-centred perspective second nature.

A parenting course sounds like a very good idea, for both me and DP, are there any you'd recommend in particular?

I was ambidextrous as a child and would transfer my cutlery into different hands when eating, I would colour and write using whichever hand I felt like. This appeared to be a huge problem to many of the adults around me and I remember every single one of the occasions when I was forced to hold pens and cutlery "properly" I remember so clearly how frightened and trapped I felt and trying so hard not to act on my instinctive movements because I knew I would be jumped on or told off. To this day I still resent my own parents for it and I think you have to realise that what you've done here has probably had much more of a far reaching effect that you could have imagined. She was fine with you and hugged you as she left etc because she had no choice. She will have just shut down to get through to the end of the visit. Once in a safe space she's talked about what has happened and worked through it deciding, that she doesn't want to see either of you anymore.

You seem to have acknowledged what you've done and have more awareness of how damaging it was, which is good. Hopefully this will help you to control your hyper critical attitude towards her and allow you to rebuild a relationship in time. As for "putting yourself through" it on here, personally I think you've got off lightly. If I were her mother you'd never get near her again.