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Original poster

Christmas arrangements

191 replies

StepCatsmother · 05/12/2014 09:01

And more specifically, how much do you see your ex-P or how much does your P see his ex (depending on who is the step between you) over the festive period?

I know this might depend on how recent/friendly the split with the ex was.

I ask because I'm just curious about how 'normal' my DP's arrangements are. This is only the second Christmas since he split with his ex, and their relationship is fairly amicable as things go.

This year he has the children for Christmas Eve through to Christmas Day morning, when he will then take them back to his ex. She is taking them to her family for the rest of Christmas Day and Boxing Day. However, at handover she is planning a 'family brunch' for the 4 of them (her, DP and the 2 children - age 5 and 10). Apparently this will be an hour or 2 and DP is going because the kids will want him there.

I guess I don't know how to feel about this, at the moment I don't think I have feelings either way. I can see that doing something nice for the children is important at this time of year, but there is a little discomfort at the idea of them playing happy families. The picture doesn't entirely sit right with me but it might only be because I'm new at all this and don't know what's usual :)

OP posts:
Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:04

Apologies, cross-posted.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 20:14

Couldn't the children from his first marriage join his 'new' family on Christmas Day

Some people do that of course. In OP's case Ithik she's saying the relationship is a bit new for that. But people choose allsorts of solutions don't they? OP sounds balanced and sensible, I'm sure things will work out just fine.

rather than him going back to recreate a family that's no longer together?

I really think second wives make a rod for our backs when we insist on viewing things like this.

It's not usually about 'recreating' anything, it is about putting the DC first for a few hours, as good parents do (and will again at school concerts, landmark birthdays, graduations, weddings etc). What could be more christmassy than that?

Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:18

But I actually think you're sending very mixed messages to a child by falsely playing happy families.

StardustBikini · 07/12/2014 20:22

It's all a bit artificial, isn't it? I mean, you only need to read the posts elsewhere on MN to see that most together families either go and visit family or have family visit them over the Xmas period.

The nuclear family sitting down together for brunch, presents, queens speech followed by dinner seems very much the exception.

So, why is there a need to create that when parents have separated? Or, to divide Xmas day in half - so preventing either family from descending on far-flung relatives for a few days?

Why should DCs miss out on spending Xmas eve/day/Boxing Day with the grandparents they see infrequently, or their similar aged cousins who live several counties away, just because they have to "go to dads" after lunch?

In many cases, the DCs would be better off spending alternate years as an integral part of each families plans - be that at home, with relatives or on holiday; not have some artificial arrangement created to accomodate their seeing both parents, either together or separately, on Xmas day.
Is it really for the children that many parents insist on a fair share of Xmas each year?

NickiFury · 07/12/2014 20:22

My ex and used to do a lot of stuff together with our dc (he's moved abroad now so it's much less). At NO time were we ever trying to "recreate" our family. We were doing what felt right for our dc. There was nothing between us. It's that kind of idea, that the ex and your DH/DP are cosying up together playing happy families that creates many of these problems in my opinion and I can only put it down to insecurity and jealousy on the part of the second wife. Nothing could be further from the truth in my own situation. We just wanted to show our children that we are civil and can spend time together on their special occasions. Not meaning to be harsh but anyone who sees a problem with that needs to grow up in my opinion.

Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:23

Excellent post Stardust.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 20:23

But why would you be 'playing' anything? It's just cordiality, season of goodwill, a few hours of being pleasant and focussing on the children.

When you sometimes spend time with your ex and your joint DC, it doesn't resemble pre-split days (not in my experience or observation). But it is immensely positive for the DC to see that cordial relations are possible.

StrychnineStew · 07/12/2014 20:25

The nuclear family sitting down together for brunch, presents, queens speech followed by dinner seems very much the exception.

Exactly Stardust.

NickiFury · 07/12/2014 20:25

It's couldn't be further from "artificial" what a nonsensical and limited way to view two parents spending time together with their children on Christmas Day.

Philoslothy · 07/12/2014 20:25

But petal they/we are a happy family, nobody is recreating of pretending we are just a slightly different family.

Whatever21 · 07/12/2014 20:27

river - I said on this forum= not this thread, which has been interesting and not deteriorated too much.

I personally resent being asked to change any arrangements to accommodate the new DP - lot of history and manipulation behind this and Xmas is just the same.

I forgot to say at our "family" meals -( because to DCs, he and I, are their family) all phones, pagers etc are off, in the car and not looked at. His new DP found the need to text virtually every 5 mins on one occasion and if he did not response started ringing - watching EX get more agitated and distracted annoyed everyone.

It will change in time - but for the here and now, it works for the DCs and they want it.

StardustBikini · 07/12/2014 20:30

My ex and used to do a lot of stuff together with our dc (he's moved abroad now so it's much less). At NO time were we ever trying to "recreate" our family. We were doing what felt right for our dc

That rather proves my point! How did you and your DCs cope with that arrangement changing?

Obviously, your ex didn't place high priority on that aspect of his relationship with your DCs - did you share that prioritisation with him, or were you disappointed that he chose to give it up?

When you established the routines you had together with your DCs, did you discuss in advance the potential for it to change? Or did you both go into it without really thinking that far ahead?

When a couple separate, establishing "joint" routines presupposes that both parents are equally committed to them - when they're not, then that's when frustration and resentment arises.

Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:30

And of course you do get the occasional devious ex who uses the "it's just for the children" line to ensure her ex doesn't get to see much of his new partner on Christmas Day .......

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 20:41

occasional devious ex who uses the "it's just for the children" line to ensure her ex doesn't get to see much of his new partner on Christmas Day .......

Devious exes are seperate (horrible) problem all of their own. And they are occasional thankfully.

Most people can manage to be reasonable. And even the slightly unreasonable ones can be managed.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 20:44

separate^

NickiFury · 07/12/2014 20:46

Stardust I think my post was quite self explanatory so I don't believe I need to go into detail to satisfy your curiosity and/or try to refute some of the rather limited assumptions you have made.

However I will say that emotionally my dc are doing very well, far better than I had expected when we first split up and I put that down to the respectful and understanding behaviour of ALL the adults concerned Smile.

Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:51

But children can still thrive without parental re-unions at Christmas. Me and my brother would NOT have wanted to deal with that spoiling our turkey, and have managed just fine in the decades since.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 20:54

parental re-unions ? Confused

Why call it that? It isn't that.

No wonder you're upset, if that's the way you're framing it.

Petal02 · 07/12/2014 20:59

But going back to when I was a child, that's how it would have seemed - an act of theatre; life had adjusted fine after my parents split, reassembling everyone would have just been plain weird.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 21:00

Stardust the months and years after a split are when DC most need to see that their parents can still be friendly to each other.

I'm sure Nicki's DC are quite able to understand 'Daddy has emigrated for X reason' as an explanation for less festive time with both parents far more easily than they could have processed the idea that their parents couldn't bear to be in a room together when they were younger and the split was fresher.

Surely you can see that?

DC do get older and gain insight, you know.

ArsenicSoup · 07/12/2014 21:04

It depends on the individuals involved doesn't it Petal? It doesn't sound as though your parents could have managed harmony, so they probably made the right decision not to try (we have a situation like that in our family).

Some parents can manage it good-naturedly and fairly naturally and so the only reasonable thing to do is to let them, I think.

I know the practice isn't always as easy as the theory, but nearly 20 years of being the adult in stepfamilies tells me throwing as much goodwill at a situation as possible and trying to see through DCs eyes works out best.

Original poster
StepCatsmother · 07/12/2014 21:05

When the relationship is further down the line, yes I would be sad if I was only getting to spend every other Christmas with him, but I don't think it necessarily follows that I would expect to spend the whole of Christmas with him.

He might still choose to have that 1-hour brunch with his ex and the small people but I hope that there would also be a bit of time for us two alone, us two with his children and us two with various other friends and family. I would also hope that everyone involved would be open to being flexible about the timings of arrangements to maximise who sees who.

On the Christmases where it would be our 'turn' to have his kids, I can't see me having any problem with his ex popping over for a bit to see them (assuming communication stays about as it is now!). To be honest, if I wasn't at my own parents this year, there's every chance I might have been asked to go to his ex's with DP.

Thinking on I also think the definition of 'family' should also be considered from the children's' perspective. Even if DP and I consider ourselves to be a family, and he no longer considers his ex as family. The children are only fairly little, and even though their mum and dad have split up - I'm sure that family to them, is still DP, his ex and them. That's why I do agree with the people saying that it's good for them to see people being amicable all together if possible.

OP posts:
Philoslothy · 07/12/2014 21:50

But that is you petal, all of out children have benefited from being part of an extended family.

StardustBikini · 08/12/2014 07:40

I know the practice isn't always as easy as the theory, but nearly 20 years of being the adult in stepfamilies tells me throwing as much goodwill at a situation as possible and trying to see through DCs eyes works out best.

The way in which children react after their parents separation is understood in much greater depth now than 20 years ago.
Transitional distress, and emotional conflict, is well understood and clear triggers have been identified - which, in some cases include seeing their parents together.

As a result, some of the things that split parents did in the past in an attempt to "make things better" for the DCs have now been identified as possible triggers for further upset and distress.

Every child is different - and I think it's important that parents assess what is genuinely right for their child, based on an up to date understanding of child psychology, rather than introducing artificial routines and rituals that "feel right" to them as parents in a misguided attempt to make things better for the DCs.

Bellalunagirl · 08/12/2014 08:21

My DH has never been 'allowed' to see his DC on Christmas Day or Boxing Day. This started way back when they split and hasn't changed. His ex always made plans to see her family so the kids would be told they were going to see their grandparents. Why didn't he challenge it early? Truth be told he didn't want to rock the boat, he thought they were happy and he had just gotten over an exhausting legal battle and didn't want to go back to being bitter, disappointed and skint. Should he have done? probably but it's done now. The result is he sees them before Christmas and they have two Christmas days. Not ideal but kinda works.

There is no chance his ex ever wanted to co-parent, so sitting down to Christmas brunch was never an option. As soon as they split it was like she completely airbrushed him out of the picture. He didn't even see her for years, every time he did pick up or drop off she was never there (or hiding behind the sofa Grin)Her new Dh has never introduced himself or even been there when DH picks the kids up, which I find a bit odd given that he is living with another man's kids.

The point I am making really is that we have quite a fractured and disjointed situation where the kids basically have two very separate worlds. I'm not sure how healthy this is or the long term effects. It would have been nice if Dh could have had more communication with his ex so they could be on the same parenting page, but sadly it didn't happen.