Christmas arrangements

[StepCatsmother]

And more specifically, how much do you see your ex-P or how much does your P see his ex (depending on who is the step between you) over the festive period?

I know this might depend on how recent/friendly the split with the ex was.

I ask because I'm just curious about how 'normal' my DP's arrangements are. This is only the second Christmas since he split with his ex, and their relationship is fairly amicable as things go.

This year he has the children for Christmas Eve through to Christmas Day morning, when he will then take them back to his ex. She is taking them to her family for the rest of Christmas Day and Boxing Day. However, at handover she is planning a 'family brunch' for the 4 of them (her, DP and the 2 children - age 5 and 10). Apparently this will be an hour or 2 and DP is going because the kids will want him there.

I guess I don't know how to feel about this, at the moment I don't think I have feelings either way. I can see that doing something nice for the children is important at this time of year, but there is a little discomfort at the idea of them playing happy families. The picture doesn't entirely sit right with me but it might only be because I'm new at all this and don't know what's usual :)

OP if you're fine with this then it's ok and doesn't really matter what others do or think about it. It wouldn't work for my DP, he does not have that sort of relationship with his ex and neither of them wish to.

At the stage of the relationship your at and considering your plans I'd say it's fine and great they have that relationship.

As with anything, as the years progress, and situations change arrangements will evolve.

My DH wouldn't consider his ex his family, and she wouldn't consider DH her family, they are both fine with that. I guess it depends on how each feels about it, some may consider themselves family still, some may not. There's no right or wrong with that

Splitting up with someone isn't just about not sleeping with them any more. It's about forming separate households, no longer being there for each other, financial independence, doing separate things with different people. So in all those senses you are not "a family" as such.

You're co-parents, and your children are both your children of course, but you don't do all the things that a family does together any more (support each other, live together). And because you're not a family any more with your ex you're free to form a new family with someone else if you want. Your DC will then belong in both families. I think it's understandable as the new partner in all of this to need to work out where all the boundaries are.

Saying "of course they're a family" will sound to a lot of people as "he's already got a family and there's no room for you in it" Which is not fair. People who have split up have a right to form new families. They need to include their kids in the new family, but not their ex.

Nothing wrong at all with forming a new family. I just don't believe the other/first family stops being so just because you have a new one.

DH has 2 families, one with his ex and 2 DS's and one with me and all the DC's.

We all spend Christmas Day together. DH, DSS and his ex tend to do something on Boxing Day on their own

If you start a relationship with someone who had a family it will be a life of compromise.

And Flossy, is it so wrong that the family he has with you takes precedent over the family he has with his ex? In day to day life and for big things like Christmas and holidays. If he swanned off on holiday with his ex and his kids with her instead of you and all of your kids together would that not hurt just a teeny tiny bit?

But the OP is not talking about a holiday it is a 2 hour brunch.

In regards to big events like Christmas DH has always shared the day with both families. I have never expected him not to.
We don't take a precedent over his first family, outside of everyday stuff but that is because he lives here.

As I said of course people have the right to start new families but that shouldn't mean they should have to give up the first.

I think that's right TheMumsRush, it is different in each situation. I think the problem comes about when all the involved parties have different ideas of who is and isn't family and/or what the different family units 'mean' in terms of which unit takes priority in which situation, or how much time should be allocated to each separate unit or whatever.

In our situation, I think there are definitely the two separate families of DP/me/DSS, ex/her DH/DSS/their other DC. Day to day life is lived as two separate units. But often we come together and do things as one big extended/blended family, like DSS's birthday, special outings to theme parks, summer barbeque, a pre-Christmas lunch etc. This can include grandparents/aunts/uncles etc from both 'sides' of the family.

There are far fewer situations where DP, his ex and their DS do things as a nuclear family unit - it's only really things like parents evenings, the odd coffee at drop off etc. Situations where they did something specifically as a nuclear family without the rest of their children/partners would be much more difficult to arrange on a practical level and I guess would feel much more contrived. I don't think it's something either of them particularly want, and it's not something DSS has ever asked for as far as I know. And as the 'new' partner I obviously much prefer being included in stuff rather than excluded!

So in our situation, I'd say I kind of feel like the ex and her DH and their other children, and yes even the ex's mother who I am quite close to, are part of my family in a way. It is the biggest upside in being a stepmother, I feel like I have gained in family and that is great.

Not only is the relationship between the co-parents an influencing factor, but the feelings of the DCs are also crucial when "split family dynamics" are established.

Many children adapt to two families by developing different personas for each - just as they have a different persona with their friends, or at school, for instance. My DD is different with her Dad and stepmum than she is with me and her stepdad. Her role in each family is very different.

Creating a situation in which she was expected to interact with both her Dad and I at the same time would create a great deal of stress for her as she tried to negotiate how to "be" - she would struggle to cope with the fact that her two different families had come together.

It is simplistic to assume that all children will benefit from their split parents spending "family time" together - in many cases, it will create unnecessary stress for the child, for no other reason than to appease a parents guilt.

The new family do not take precedent over the old family - ie, his DCS - they are both equal.

That is one of the reasons why there is so much angst amongst step parents.

So yes "needa holiday" - it is SO wrong that one family ( the new) takes precedent over the old ( being his kids - not his Ex)

My DCs, call themselves "we are nothing in her house, mummy" - because she does not see them as part of the new and an inconvenience from the old.

I think the OP asked a sensible question and saw the wide responses to yes it is fine and no definitely not.

I think it goes back to what works for each family.

If time together on certain occasions as mum & dad can be achieved without causing distress to anyone then that is a good thing. Lets face it children are less upset/distressed when their parents get on.

I know that sadly this is not always the case but I believe as a SM that my life is actually made easier because of the good parent relationship DH and his ex have. I think when they don't get on life is hard for everyone concerned especially children.

Who decides whether the old family is still family or not?

If an exW views herself as part of her ExH family, but the stepmum doesn't, or similarly, if the ExH views himself as part of his exW family but she has moved on with a new partner - whose views take precedence?

Is is more inappropriate to exclude someone, or to insist on your own involvement?

Who decides whether the old family is still family or not

I would imagine that would be down to the parents. DH and his ex decided that they had split with each other as partners but not as parents. They decided what was the best way to handle their family after the split.
DH still sees them as family and I suppose his ex is included in that in some way. She is their mother.

This is why it all needs to be discussed beforehand. I knew that my stepson and his mother were a huge non negotiable part of his life. It would have been wrong of me to start a relatiobship with him if I was not willing to accept that.

But surely if the parents have split up, then they're no longer a couple, not related by marriage any more - I agree they're co-parents but I wouldn't consider them part of the same family unit?

Stardust - I think it should be compromise on both sides.

If a 'new' partner isn't thrilled about their DP still doing stuff with ExP and DC both, they need to try to accept the situation to some extent but also it would be unreasonable for their DP to insist on for example a huge chunk of Christmas Day with his first family, where that leaves new partner and possibly children behind. A two hour brunch however where new partner isn't even around, seems pretty reasonable to me.

I dont think 'you knew what you were getting into' applies as I think it would be reasonable to expect that over time the D(S)C become more integrated into the 'new' family and thus less is done as a first family nuclear unit. Especially as both parents establish households with new partners, have more children etc.

Give and take, no absolutes - I think this is key.

But that decision is made by the splitting couple. If they want to consider themselves a family unit, a new partner has no right to demand that changes.

Not the same family unit Petal no but they are still family.

I don't think you could complain too much about a brunch, but as a Riverboat says: if a man spends most of the day with his old family, to the detriment of his new one, that would be cause for concern. All children should be equal, but ex wives should not take priority over new wives!