Christmas arrangements

[StepCatsmother]

And more specifically, how much do you see your ex-P or how much does your P see his ex (depending on who is the step between you) over the festive period?

I know this might depend on how recent/friendly the split with the ex was.

I ask because I'm just curious about how 'normal' my DP's arrangements are. This is only the second Christmas since he split with his ex, and their relationship is fairly amicable as things go.

This year he has the children for Christmas Eve through to Christmas Day morning, when he will then take them back to his ex. She is taking them to her family for the rest of Christmas Day and Boxing Day. However, at handover she is planning a 'family brunch' for the 4 of them (her, DP and the 2 children - age 5 and 10). Apparently this will be an hour or 2 and DP is going because the kids will want him there.

I guess I don't know how to feel about this, at the moment I don't think I have feelings either way. I can see that doing something nice for the children is important at this time of year, but there is a little discomfort at the idea of them playing happy families. The picture doesn't entirely sit right with me but it might only be because I'm new at all this and don't know what's usual :)

Nobody has said the exes are part of the "family". What has been said is that the children remain to be family.

I must have misunderstood.

I do agree that if all the families involved can compromise, that's great - but the number of family court cases speak for themselves though; it generally isn't possible, because split parents often have very different parenting values.

It inevitably comes down to one parent/family taking precedence over the other in those cases, whether it is one family conceding to avoid court, or the court eventually ordering what is to happen.

I think that's much more normal.

Not normal for everyone though Daisy just as my situation is normal for our family. What is normal cannot be defined by what you do in your family against what is done in somebody else's.

That is not the case on this thread though Star so I don't see the point discussing it here as it does not help the OP. As I said maybe start a new thread if you want to discuss those exes who don't get on and why they don't.

I think the "typical" Arrangments for children with split families could be referred to as "normal".

The EOW + one midweek night and half of school holidays is generally cited (both here on MN and more widely) as normal - it's a word used (possibly incorrectly) to refer to the most commonly applied model - so arrangments in which split parents join together for part of Christmas are certainly atypical.

Personally, I'm still not convinced of the value to the children of combining members of different families in an attempt to recreate a former family makeup.

I think there have been some posts here about exes still being part of the family though, at least in terms of being part of the family unit that is mum-dad (separated) and children. I have been confused at some points as to who is talking about 'family' meaning the children, and who is talking about 'family' meaning the chlidren and the two separated parents.

There was a thread on AIBU last week, where a stepmum's partner had announced he was going over to his ex's for a few hours on Xmas day to spend time with his older kids, leaving his younger kids behind with OP. I think this is a good example of where that isn't very reasonable, because a) he had never done it in preceding years, b) OP was heavily pregnant and due around Christmas, c) they had already planned a second 'Christmas' incoroprating his children round at their house and d) he didn't discuss it with her at all, just announced it.

I think there have been some posts here about exes still being part of the family though, at least in terms of being part of the family unit that is mum-dad (separated) and children

That's what I thought, river - and that's what surprises me; how many people seem to consider themselves "family for life" with their ex!

Dh is not "family" with his ex. He is family in regards to mum, dad and 2 sons. That's it. There are events they attend together as a family such as parents evenings, school performances and big birthdays. However there is a complete distinction as to where the family bit ends. Outside of the children DH & ex don't get involved with each others lives.

Different people use different terms; I consider what you describe to be co-parenting, not being "a family".

It would feel disrespectful to DH to describe my co-parenting with DDs dad as "being a family".

Family to me implies pleasure, enjoyment, and love. Those things do not exist in my coparenting relationship with my DDs dad.

I trust him as a parent - and accept his equal role in her life but nothing more than that.

Each to their own Star

If everyone can compromise and be flexible then that's fine - but reading some of the posts on this thread, it does give the impression that some fathers have a very fixed allocation of contact time on Christmas Day, with the expectation that the arrangements will continue, unchanged, indefinitely. If this works for all concerned, then there's obviously no problem, but it doesn't accommodate other relatives, new children, evolution etc.

It must be very frustrating for a new partner to find that all her Christmases for the foreseeable have to follow a set format.

It must be very frustrating for a new partner to find that all her Christmases for the foreseeable have to follow a set format

The counter to that is is that it must be very frustrating for one parent when the format of birthdays, holidays etc changes because the life of the other parent has changed.

It's one of the reasons I am not an advocate of establishing regular family-time post-separation - it is rarely sustainable long term, unless both parents are committed to never creating a "new" family.

And when one or other parent wants to make changes to the family time post separation, it invariably leads to resentment/unhappiness on the part of the other.
It's best not establish new routines and traditions post separation that are unlikely to be sustainable, IMO.

Take the OP, for instance. If her relationship develops, then her DPs commitment to Christmas brunch with his ex will be in conflict with his desire to spend time with the OP and her family at Xmas.

I agree with you Stardust - life changes, you would assume that both parties will (at some point) acquire new partners, and creating something fixed in that environment just doesn't seem sensible. In a 'together' family things aren't fixed indefinitely, so I've never understood why some people are so keen to introduce it in separated families.

OP here :)

I think purpleroses got it right for me when she said it's been about learning where the boundaries are. I try to give DP and his ex plenty of space to do what they need to do as parents. Though I get on ok with his ex, I don't go to every pick up/drop off so that if they have things to discuss about or with the kids, they can.

I guess how I felt about the Christmas brunch was just a little different as it was a bit more than their usual child-focussed discussion and it threw me a little bit, but having read everyone's responses (and talked about it a bit with DP!) I feel fine now.

The discussion about what counts as family is interesting. I agree that it's different things for different people and as long as each family is happy with their definition that's all that matters. You have to compromise when you live with other people, whoever they are.

I will honestly hold my hands up that I didn't really know what I was getting into when I started seeing DP and didn't fully appreciate what was involved. I still probably don't. But I want things to be as good as possible for everyone involved. I'm thankful to everyone on here for helping me gauge realistic expectations :)

That's great, OP. I'm sure you'll begin to establish your own traditions over time.

I think a lot of newly separated parents, particularly if they are relatively amicable, establish routines for the DCs that involve parenting time together without any clear expectations of whether it is short/long term, flexible or a non-negotiable commitment. The routine is established, often in order to assuage parental guilt for the separation, and there isn't any real discussion behind it until one or other parent wants to change it.
THen, it often transpires that one parent places more value on it than the other, or one parent considered it temporary - and the otherwise amicable relationship is spoilt.

I think this is an aspect of separating that isn't given as much consideration as it should be; if a new family routine is established that involves spending regular time with the DCs together, it's important that the commitment and motivations of both the parents towards it is the same - otherwise, in the long term, it can do more harm than good.

You know a lot about Sfamalies Star considering you are not in one.

I agree that there are some situations as you have described however I also know there are situations like my own. It is not all bad and some families do make it work perfectly well without the angst, upset and drama. I do think that is to do with the understanding/compromise shown by all the adults involved.

OP I hope that you are able to have a good relationship and are one of the blended families that make it minus the doom and gloom that has been described by some.

You know a lot about Sfamalies Star considering you are not in one.

Are credentials required? Is currently being in a stepfamily a requirement of posting here?

My DD has a lovely stepmum

Not at all but most people tend to post regarding their own experiences.

You have said before you are not a SM but you have some very clear cut and forth right opinions on the dynamics of that role and what it is like to live within a blended family. I just find it unusual for someone to be like that when my their own admission they have limited experience. Not wrong or not allowed by the way just unusual.

Oh, don't worry on that score, flossy, I have been a stepmum, so have lots of experience

Well there ya go, learn something new everyday.

Proven Step parenting credentials are definitely not required here thankfully these days. However I do remember a time when this board was a very different place and those who were deemed to not have the required experience were attacked and verbally abused with wild accusations of trolling flying about, thankfully this is no longer the case and I think we can all be grateful for that .

Is there an introduction thread I've missed?

I'm sorry if so, I hadn't realised

Of course not all divorced couple see themselves as family. However if a couple split and continue to see themselves as family surely another partner should not come along and try and stop that.

My husband sees his ex wife and son as family, I eventually joined that family. I could not have dictated how that family would work.

No there isn't. Why do you think we need one?