DH and DSCs moving in at Xmas - worried!

[Minki]

DH and I have been together 3 years and got married in August. I have two DSs, 6 and 4, who live with me and he has a girl, 11, and boy, 9 who he has 50% of the time. Him moving in means they will be here 50% of the time. I have posted separately about this but I had a horrible break up with my ex after he had an affair and left us for other woman. DH also had an affair and split with his ex which does cause some trust issues. They would be moving in with me as I have a 6 bedroom house and they have a one bed flat (kids share a room and DH sleeps on the floor when they stay!). We obviously have more than enough room although I am thinking of getting an au-pair which would mean his DCs need to share a room (one room is used as an office) which doesn't seem to be an issue given that they share at both their dad's and mum's. All the kids get on very well and seem to be looking forward to moving in but I am nervous for a number of reasons. Aside from the cost issues (who pays what etc, which we have not discussed in detail, I am hugely worried about losing control and this not feeling like my house anymore. Once they move in it will have to become home to his DCs and i am not sure I feel ready for that. It feels like it is my kids and my home and noone elses! It's not helped by the fact that I am the higher earner and use a nanny (or an au-pair) which DH works fewer hours and so has never used childcare. He will basically be at home 3 with his kids 3 afternoons a week whilst my kids are being looked after by a nanny. His kids go to school 40 minutes away from where we live so he will have to collect them from school and commute back to ours on the days they are with us. Although I like his kids, there are also tensions around parenting styles. His son, 9, is very clingy and quite demanding and it feels like he always wants his dad to himself, which is quite hard for my little ones to handle as when DSCs aren;t here, DP is available to them. Just feel that we will both want time with our own kids that we won't get and that his DS will be sulky and resentful because of it. Also worried about costs. Am struggling to pay a large mortgage and worry that I am going to end up picking up the larger share of the food bills etc. I tried to tell DP how I was feeling which he interpreted as me not wanting them to move in so need to broach this really carefully. Any advice?

I am not a regular poster but for all is worth, this is my take on the issue. I think your situation is very complex, but in itself, not that unworkable at all. The problem you are facing is that you've gone totally the wrong way about it by deciding to get married before dealing with all the issues with time. You now face the reality that you can't all adjust to the situation quickly, but because you are married, there is now a seemingly urgency to sorting it all out.

It is totally natural to feel anxious about sharing your home. My OH was also massively anxious about it. Slightly different situation and reasons for doing so, but ultimately, he felt very much like you and yes, the first months... years.... were tough as we adjusted, often not in the most harmonious way. The insecurities on both sides came out in very meaningless ways, but it was our way we both coped with our adjusting to relinquishing some of the control we had built, successfully, for many years previously. I can assure that my OH was as nervous as you about us 'invading' his home (although of course he never said it directly!). Well 3 years on, he is the one who asked me very seriously how I would feel about moving out because suddenly, he decided that his perfect house wasn't so perfect, and ironically, it's me who is now settled and quite happy to stay (we compromised, we'll move in a a few years).

I could apply the same dynamics to adjusting to step children, money etc... The point is that all this takes a lot of time, conflict and in our case, it was indeed our deep seeded love that took us through it all and saw us coming on the other side happier than we've ever been.

The reality is, it just won't happen until you make the plunge and accept that you are about to face months, maybe years or rollercoaster. That's the commitment you made by deciding to marry (or else I really don't know why you would have agreed to go ahead with it). As said, would have been so much easier to have got married after the ride (as OH and I did), but it is too late now.

Remember that your fears and anxieties doesn't justify your choices though and you won't make it work unless you start to gradually let go of the control. I wish you good luck.

I've been reading this and am a bit confused.
It sounds to me like neither party want to lose out.
It seems strange (and can see why people are calling the DH a cocklodger) if he's not contributing, but at the same time did the OP not say she didn't want him contributing to the mortgage because of possible ramifications on what is her asset. Maybe he is confused about what OP does/doesn't want him to contribute, and OP seem aprehensive to discuss financial issues.
At the same time I can understand the DH's point of view, at the moment he has an asset, (his flat), due to part/shared ownership or whatever it's called, he can't rent it out, he doesn't want to sell it, and then pay 'rent", because he will then lose his asset (safeguarding for HIS kids?), it sounds as if he is willing to sell, put the capital into OP's house but only if he gets a percentage?
If I have got the above correct, it sounds as if both parties are trying to safeguard some sort of asset for their kids, which makes it confusing regarding signing a pre-nup and getting married??
I also think the DH working 'part time' is a bit of a red herring?
It sounds to me like he essentially has a full time job, but has 'reshuffled' his hours, and works later on Monday and Tues, to make him available for collecting kids on the other days, presumably if he didn't have to collect his kids, he wouldn't finish early....
In these circumstances as I see them, I don't think anyone necessarily comes across as wrong, you both seem to want to secure something for your kids?
And I also can see why OP can't have a discussion about contributing to bills, as that will undoubtedly end up as talking about why he isn't moving in.
I agree with others, just don't see why on earth you got married before sorting all this out....

Ok, so resurrecting this thread (with name change) as need further advice but really just on practical matters. Overall, things have settled down and improved a lot over the last few months and many of the concerns I had have gone. DP is contributing more financially so feel a bit more reassured on that front. DP and kids are moving in this week. The removal vans came yesterday and the DSCs rooms are all ready. All 4 kids seem very happy and excited about it. DP has not yet sold his flat but will do so in the coming months as, as mentioned before, he is not allowed to rent it out. Until he has sold his flat, DP obviously won't be paying anything towards the rent or the mortgage as he is still paying for his flat. I definitely want him to cover food for his kids and am wondering if he should pay something towards bills. I wasn't going to mention or ask for anything for a few months but if his flat doesn't sell in that time, then perhaps ask for him to pay towards bills. He will be there full time and his DCs 50% so what would be a fair contribution from him? Once he does sell his flat, I am wondering what a fair contribution to bills/mortgage would be if he is living there full time and his kids 50%? We have not definitely agreed that he will contribute to the mortgage although he has indicated that he wants to once his flat is sold but that he wants any contributions to count towards the mortgage and not be treated as rent.

OP glad you came back with an up-date and things are moving along for you.

I think you have 2 kids and him 2? in this case split utilities 50:50 ie gas, electricity, broadband. Food also split (assuming all kids have lunch at school), Cleaner split 50:50

When in a similar situation we set up a joint bank account and paid money into it to cover bills.

are you giving up your office for bedroom of step kid?

It is very hard having step children in you home. Don't underestimate it.

Thanks Lasvegas. Don't think he will want to pay 50% as his kids are here only 50%. When we discussed a while ago he suggested I pay 2/3rd and he pay 1/3. Not sure what is right. Yes, I gave up my office so DSCs have a room each but we have a loft which will now double up as an office and spare room. Good idea re joint account. Yes, I have no doubt there will be issues at some point. Will take some getting used to I think. Not sure it has quite sunk in yet.

Think I am definitely going to miss my freedom and coming home to a quite empty house. And being able to decide what the boys and I are doing each weekend! Now have to factor DSCs in as they will be here on Saturday.

Our child adores her older step brothers. This definitely makes their visits easier to cope with.

I have always worked FT with a commute. When dd was younger could barely keep on top of things and the step visits were icing on cake!

We did not have dedicated bedroom though. DD gave up her room so more chaos.

If your step kids are not there a full week then 50:50 not right. But as your husband is there all the week I would have thought a third and 2 thirds not in your favour. Maybe start with each person as 7 days and then reduce contribution for part timers.

Please stay on the board don't let the negative poster put you off. I was amazed at someone commenting on how can you live frugally if you pay x for a mortgage! surely everyone knows the mortgage is the biggest expenses. Once that is paid not a lot left over.

I assume you have a pre-nup, not legally binding I know but shows both spouses intentions.

I am still not getting why you re-mortgaged to pay for loft conversion as you only needed it for step kids to stay over. I would not have been this generous. As I said my steps used DD room.

So he wants his contributions to specifically pay towards the mortgage and not be regarded as rent? Which is something you categorically didn't want as you need (quite correctly) to keep the house as wholly yours.

Do you not think this is yet another issue?

Glad you feel better about the whole thing. He should be paying 75% the amount you pay I think. Count adults as a unit each and two kids as another unit each so he only gets 50% discount on 1 unit if that makes sense? No way you should be paying twice what he does. How does maintenence figure? Does he pay for his and you receive for your boys?

Thanks both. Lasvegas, I had to put a new roof on the house as we literally had water pouring into DS2's room. I got the plans to include the loft which i was going to do years later when I had the money but then midway through the builders doing the roof offered me a deal to do the loft at the same time and pointed out that it was a lot easier/cheaper than doing it later/separately. Think the loft and second bathroom added to the value of the house BUT i really should have used the extra borrowing to pay off my debts, as orginally intended. So, was not really done for DSC although I did think more space would be valuable if they ever did move in.

Re rent/mortgage, we have really not agreed what will happen and I really want to hear other posters views on that is the fair thing to do here that also protects me and my DSs. I do want to leave the house for them but at the same time I have very little to live on after mortgage, bills, childcare etc and it would be life changing to have someone else contributing, even if just 1/3. It would mean holidays, being able to save, not having to use credit cards/get in debt etc. I can also understand why DP would want to pay towards something. I don't think he would agree to pay "rent" and it would be very strange if he paid nothing to live here whilst I am struggling. On the other hand, it seems slightly unfair/risky that he would get a share in the house by only putting in very little/ The pre-nup covers this to an extent but, as you rightly say, may not be enforceable. One thing my lawyer did insist on was that DP's payments to the mortgage only count IF he makes a capital contribution of at least 50k into the house, which he may be able to do once he sells his flat. He is likely to have only 30 or 40k to contribute though which is a drop in the ocean compared to the value of the house. Really not sure what to do.

thanks Hampsterdam. He doesn't pay any maintenance as he has his kids 50% of the time. I receive 1,000 a month from my ex but that basically goes on childcare costs. DP and his ex don't have childcare as his ex works part time and DP is (unofficially) able to work around childcare. Does the 75% calculation stand up even if DSCs are only here 50% of the time?

Yes it works because they are only there 50% if my maths is any good. Count yourself as 1 unit him as 1 unit your boys as 1 and his kids as 1 he gets 50% off that unit. So u pay 100% whatever that is and he pays 75% of that. 1 third 2 thirds isn't fair however you work it out. Him paying a 3rd would only work our if his kids were never there. Hope that makes sense. Of course then u have to decide that all the money is used for and what are extras for the kids. It's not easy .

Is he going to look after your kids then?

No titchy, he's not. He tries to do what he needs to do workside on Mon and Tues so not sure he would be free to look after mine on those days. On Weds-Fri he has to pick up his kids from their school and won't be back at mine until 5.30.

bump

You have 2 children. Your DP has 2 children but they are there only 50% of the time, so they count as 1 child.
You and DP are both adults, both there all the time. So effectively, there are 5 of you in the house. You pay 3 x fifths. He pays 2 x fifths of bills.

Yes I agree. It would be fair for him to pay two-fifths of all household expenses.

great, thank you! What about payments towards mortgage/rent?

Half?

I agree that he should pay 2/5 or 40% of the bills

Dodo, my situation is I have two children and DH has none. I receive no maintenance from their dad. OH and I earn a similar income, but clearly I have many more outgoings, whilst he has even less as car, phone and other things comes with his job.

The way we worked it out and both totally agree was the only fair way was to put down all our income, then all our essential outgoings, and what was left over was divided by two. We then worked out who paid what and calculated what I needed to pay OH (as he paid the mortgage and most of the house bills) so that we were left with the same disposable income in the end. I benefited, he lost out, but that's the cost of love, he gained in other ways than financially!

Since then, we've been more flexible. Still separate accounts because we both like it better like that, but there is much more of a our money attitude to everything. I smiled when OH referred to his coming work bonus as 'our bonus'! He would never have said that before. Yet to me, it is his money, but I know much of it will be spend for the benefit of all of us anyway, so it doesn't matter.

40% sounds fair to me too. How about both of you going to see a Solicetor and getting their opinion. I would be worried about being able to leave the house to your sons if he will have been contributing to the rent.

It's a bit that you haven't been able to work out how much he will contribute with him. Are you able to talk about finances with him now without him becoming defensive?

Thanks Sometimes. I think a solicitor would have a conflict and wouldn't be able to advise us both. Think the questions are: 1) whether to let him pay anything at all towards the house; 2) if yes, then how much and should that be counted as rent or mortgage. Obviously it would be massively in my favour for it to count as rent not mortgage but not sure that is fair to him. On the other hand, just realised that in the place he owns (and will soon sell), he paid only a few hundred towards the mortgage and the rest or 3/4 was "rent" as it was a housing association scheme where he only owned 1/4 share of the property. Maybe he could invest the proceeds of his flat into an ISA or other form of investment, pay what he was previously paying towards the mortgage into that too and then pay a further amount in "rent" to me. He is then no worse off, unless of course investment into an ISA is not as good/lucrative as investment in to property (probably not). Doubt he will agree anyway. Mmm.

Couldn't a solicitor advise you on whether it's possible to ring-fence capital and subsequent payments so that every penny he puts in he can take out but cannot touch your investment? If this can be done then the lawyer could also add a clause which sets out the terms under which he can withdraw his money - ie only after x months (to give you a chance to raise it/remortgage).
I'm guessing as I am not a lawyer but worth asking yours.

Have you done new wills? Just a thought.

Whether he is paying 'rent' or 'towards the mortgage' won't make much of a difference after a certain time as it will become assets of the marriage.

Are you saying you are trying to protect your house in case you divorce within the first 5 years of your marriage? Ironically, it might be the way you are so desperate to protect your asset that might create problems that might lead to a separation. It's as if you are persuaded it is going to fail any way.

Whether he is paying 'rent' or 'towards the mortgage' is nothing more than semantics, but which ever you chose to use sends a massive message to your husband that might have some serious implication to your relationship. I remember the time my OH referred to the transfer I was making monthly as the rent you pay me. It was just words to him, meant nothing, but me, it was like a dagger thrown in my heart and after this, I took a massive step back emotionally, turning and twisting whether this meant that he would always consider the house as his only. It was month of tension about how committed we really were to each other. Thankfully, our love was stronger and he finally took the step towards marriage. Unlike you, he took it seriously and totally accepted that once he'd made it, everything did become ours. Since then, our relationship has been amazing and strong. No more tension, wondering how to go about things. We are married and totally united and solid for each other. I know that OH is a very happy man.

I think you really need to accept that the moment you decided to marry this man, you committed to him and that's that. Instead of wasting so much emotional energy thinking about how you could protect yourself, you would be much better putting all your energy towards getting to the point where you act like a proper married couple, not too people who love each other but are desperate to protect themselves and just happen to share a signed piece of paper.