DH and DSCs moving in at Xmas - worried!

[Minki]

DH and I have been together 3 years and got married in August. I have two DSs, 6 and 4, who live with me and he has a girl, 11, and boy, 9 who he has 50% of the time. Him moving in means they will be here 50% of the time. I have posted separately about this but I had a horrible break up with my ex after he had an affair and left us for other woman. DH also had an affair and split with his ex which does cause some trust issues. They would be moving in with me as I have a 6 bedroom house and they have a one bed flat (kids share a room and DH sleeps on the floor when they stay!). We obviously have more than enough room although I am thinking of getting an au-pair which would mean his DCs need to share a room (one room is used as an office) which doesn't seem to be an issue given that they share at both their dad's and mum's. All the kids get on very well and seem to be looking forward to moving in but I am nervous for a number of reasons. Aside from the cost issues (who pays what etc, which we have not discussed in detail, I am hugely worried about losing control and this not feeling like my house anymore. Once they move in it will have to become home to his DCs and i am not sure I feel ready for that. It feels like it is my kids and my home and noone elses! It's not helped by the fact that I am the higher earner and use a nanny (or an au-pair) which DH works fewer hours and so has never used childcare. He will basically be at home 3 with his kids 3 afternoons a week whilst my kids are being looked after by a nanny. His kids go to school 40 minutes away from where we live so he will have to collect them from school and commute back to ours on the days they are with us. Although I like his kids, there are also tensions around parenting styles. His son, 9, is very clingy and quite demanding and it feels like he always wants his dad to himself, which is quite hard for my little ones to handle as when DSCs aren;t here, DP is available to them. Just feel that we will both want time with our own kids that we won't get and that his DS will be sulky and resentful because of it. Also worried about costs. Am struggling to pay a large mortgage and worry that I am going to end up picking up the larger share of the food bills etc. I tried to tell DP how I was feeling which he interpreted as me not wanting them to move in so need to broach this really carefully. Any advice?

I don't want to be an interfering MIL but in your mum's position I would have to say something to him. I couldn't bear to see my daughter in your position.

As McSqueezy says, maybe just accept that though he's a lovely man (though is debatable) you and he just can't be together. Frankly, his loveliness would have worn off by now, if I were you.

minki If you want me to "clear off" then I suggest you take the advice of other posters and ignore me - all the while you respond to my posts, I will continue to reply.

At no point have I misrepresented myself as a lawyer. Neither have I given legal advice.

I have highlighted that marriage carries specific legal liabilities and responsibilities, different to those of dating or unmarried cohabiting couples.

This information is freely available on the internet, from credible and reliable sources, including, I imagine, your own professional body.
If your solicitor/barrister and accountant have advised you of loopholes that allow you to avoid the limitations on married couples to have one principle private residence, and avoid the need for a prenup to be considered in family court upon divorce, then that's great. But that doesn't mean the law doesn't apply, it just means you have found a way around it.

You have presented as ill informed (and very defensive) on this thread, and that raises questions about your motives and reasonings for posting.

PeruvianFoodLover, I always wonder why people keep going on and on on a thread when the OP has clearly asked them to stop. You are repeating yourself and the OP clearly thinks that your suggestions have been considered by her and dealt with. She's not finding loopholes. She and her husband live separately. Many married couples do. I did when my ex husband and I separated; we didn't divorce for many years. Each of us paid council tax on our properties - we paid as single occupants, just as the OP is. It's occupancy that matters, not your marital status. The fact he stays with her doesn't matter.

But the interesting thing that comes from this is why are you responding when the OP has asked you not to? She feels you are argumentative and aggressive and tbh that's how it comes across to me, too. Why not find a thread where the OP is happy for you to post?

why are you responding when the OP has asked you not to

Subsequent to the OP telling me to "butt out" and clear off", she then continued to respond to posts I had made prior to her demand.

If she wishes me to no longer post, then perhaps she should stop addressing me? I may be more willing to acquiesce to her request then (asking nicely wouldn't go amiss, either) - although of course, as is made clear all over MN, an OP cannot select who responds to their posts.

Why not find a thread where the OP is happy for you to post?

because this is a public, internet forum where just about anybody in the world could post if they so chose to?....because when you post on an internet forum, you are opening yourself up to opinion - good and bad - whether you like it or not....because it isn't the OP's forum where she has sole control and therefore anyone has an entitlement to say what they think? because if you don't want to engage with someone, you ignore them, not keep on telling them that they're wrong and then go on to repeat the same stuff again, and again...and again?

I frequently disagree with Peruvian's opinions but I believe her to be well informed and well meaning, even if I am unable to agree.

I recall the op stating on a previous thread that her solicitor advised her not to get married, but she ignored the advice.

When you have tried to address money issues it has ended in disaster. What does one of these disasters look like? Arguments? Accusations? Emotional blackmail? I don't know and I hope you will answer. It strikes me that by creating a disaster he is shutting you down and stopping you raising your concerns and the status quo remains ie him paying nothing towards him and his dc upkeep not even stretching to a box of cereal.
Do the maths, work out his portion of the grocery bill at least and see what he says, if it turns into a disaster either he's a cock lodger of epic proportion or you both are so shit at communication it's doomed to fail.

Trouble is, I imagine the conversation would go like this:
OP: I would like you to contribute to the bills for the nights when you are here.
OP DH: I would like to move into the house as we discussed before we got married.
OP: Er.

The only way to maintain the current uneasy peace is by not raising anything that leads straight to the decision the OP doesn't want to make.

OP,

If you want certain posters to stop posting you have to STOP responding to them. They enjoy upsetting you, please don't give them the satisfaction.

That said...
I have given you advice on several of your threads under different user names and I have to admit that I have found it very frustrating as you don't seem to listen to the constructive advice you get. Do you have any friends that you can talk this through with. There is something very, very wrong with your relationship with your DH if you can't discuss finances with him.

I'm sorry but you shouldn't begrudge your husband anything or why did u marry him? Also u knew he had kids and you have to accept them as part of him same as he should accept your kids an the whole package. Differences should not be made me kids your kids look after your own I look after mine that's is not what marriage is about its about becoming a unit. My husband loves me son as his own he rearing him from he was four he 7 now he has a 3.5 yr old which I adore as I've known her since she was couple months (1 night Stand so u kno I didn't steal him from child's mother lol) I would never have married him if he didn't love my son and treat him as his own and I like to think my husband was same. We have joint bank account an we both working to same future for ourselves and our children. He earns more but he never begrudges me or my son he would give us his last penny and I would do same for him. I don't kno why it has to be so complicated. Marriage is about sharing your life in all aspects not just your bed sorry bout the rant lol

Arguing on the thread and some posters taking the moral high ground and then others "taking sides" isn't going to help. I can agree with the poster that said there is a certain frustration related to the OP "going around in circles" but I think OP you should maybe ignore some posts that are unnecessarily nasty in content.

I did wonder if you were too embarrassed to mention money and of course the longer you have avoided this the worse it is. But I notice you say that when you have mentioned money, it has ended in disaster and as Hampersterdam asks, what exactly does this "disaster" look like and I agree that people tend to "close down" situations that they don't want to discuss by a variety of strategies, dependent on the individual.

You really are between a rock and a hard place aren't you. Presumably the ideal situation would be DH moving in with you, contributing a reasonable share of household expenditure (taking into account your higher earnings) and maybe having his children to stay every other weekend, or even the same arrangements as now - one "sleepover" - please be assured I am not making judgements or criticising you. I am SM (but thank god they are grown now with their own families) but I had years of unhappiness and they didn't live with us full time, but it caused massive arguments/tensions between myself and DP.

I think the fact that you are worried that he would end the marriage if you come out and say he can't move in - and presumably that's why you are stalling. You could ask what his reaction would be if you did take that course of action. Maybe you can carry on as you are (people live in all sorts of different situations these days) and I absolutely agree that accusations of you "hating your step-children" are unnecessary. BUT you are wary - I don't want to add my voice to those that are castigating you for marrying this man, but can I ask, what did you hope would happen in relation to living together and his children living with you 50% of the time. Did you actually agree to that? Sorry if that has already been covered.

The finance issue is important (not about him not buying wine or milk) and contributing towards holidays, but surely it must raise doubts in your mind about his motivation to move in with you - is it in fact based partly on finance, in that he would obviously not have the expenditure on his own property, and on the basis that because you earn more, he would not have to contribute and have his children with him for the same amount of time that he does now. Do you worry about that? You might not want to say especially as so many posters are being so judgemental about you and your situation.

Someone suggested counselling and I think this is possibly a good idea. How do you think DH would feel about that - you don't say very much about what sort of man he is, his temperament and disposition, but many men don't like the idea of talking to a stranger. BUT it would enable you to bring up the issue of money and it would be the job of the therapist/counsellor to help guide the 2 two of you to unravel what is really going on here. IF you do this, you would have to be prepared to be honest with the therapist as they can't help unless you are. You could admit to being embarrassed about talking money (and the disasters when you do) and if DH tries to "close the topic down" then the therapist would be able to explore his underlying reasons for this reaction.

Even if you sort finance - there is still the step-children and I think that's really difficult. I do absolutely understand your reluctance and think you are right to be wary - maybe at the end of it all it really does come down to a choice:

1. You "give in" and DH and children move in (the latter for 50% of the time) and the financial issues are properly discussed and sorted (or not).

1. You carry on as you are and it just becomes the norm. Finance discussed (or not)

1. You tell DH it's a NO and he ends the relationship.

I think with 1 you are going to feel very resentful over time about his children and you losing control of your home and possibly the financial issue. Surely he wouldn't expect for him and his children to live totally free and at your expense. If so would you really not be very concerned about such an attitude.

1. Probably the best option for you at the moment but not DH

1. You are going to be heartbroken and if he issues you with an ultimatum - you might give in, only to find everything goes wrong but he's not going to move out.

YEP - you should try counselling! Look on BACP website (British Assoc Counsellors and Psychotherapists) and you will find many in your geographical area. If you do go down this route, remember that a good therapist will use the first session to see if you are going to be able to work together, and you need to feel emotionally safe enough to be honest. Sometimes you have to try more than one therapist.

From what you've posted recently your DH is spending Monday to Friday with you at your house and spends the weekends with his dc's including Friday night at your house. Originally you said that if he moved in with you the children would be there three days a week, it doesn't sound like he has them three days now, just the weekends.

I think if I were in your position id suggest that he moves in, the sc's are already at yours on a Friday and perhaps he could have a bit of time with them on his own on Saturday so his sons gets the Dad time he needs and you get some space. Your Dh could rent out his flat so you all have a safety net.

Clearly you need to have a conversation about roles and finances, which you clearly find hard to do. I think it'll be easier to sort out when you're discuss a change of plan.

OP I have followed this thread and it seems totally clear that you really don't want the family home with DH and DSC and that's okay.

You could of course agree to live apart and that's okay (but I don't understand why you'd risk your capital by marrying tbf, but that's your lookout and you've obviously had some advice).

While you've been fairly clear on here, I'm not sure you've been clear with your DH. Is he not buying because he's tight, or because he actually doesn't feel like he lives with you.

DP and I 'flat-surfed' between two owned flats for a while before buying, but we were young, neither well off and it tended to even out. That was only sustainable because we had similar circumstances and 'responsibilities' beyond the mortgage. With differing incomes, DC, DSC etc. there is ultimately a pretty complex agreement needs to be worked out, otherwise it's surely somewhat chaotic (might be fine for you as the higher earner with the big house, but not so sure about everyone else working around it? I do appreciate that's not your immediate lookout, but surely a sensible long-term agreement is in the interests of all).

Yes, the important thing too find out is what is the disaster when you did discuss finances?
Answer that and maybe we can offer opinions on how to move forward? You are just going round in circles now...

I am not legally qualified but the staying over for five nights a week would be considered cohabiting if you were being assessed for benefits (not relevant) and I know that my father had to ration his nights with his lady friend to less than three nights a week or she would lose her widow's pension from cohabiting (not relevant). This would be regardless of for which home council tax is being paid.

While those two examples do not apply directly to you, they could be used as precedents in a split to show cohabitation. It may not be an argument that flies, but it may be an argument that is used. Perhaps the saving grace is that he doesn't bring anything in or contribute, as that shows no contribution to your home.

I hope you can make peace with yourself, because this love doesn't seem to be making you happy.

Hi there

I'm sort of in a similar position to you in that my DP and his DD will be moving in with me and my DC later this year. We've been together 2 years. I've had lots of concerns about 'losing control' of my home and what my role will be. I do understand what you're going through on that front.

However, what I've never had a concern about is things being financially fair. We are extending the house so that everyone has their own room (DSD will be here full time) and DP is paying for that. He also contributes food every time he and his DD stay. Today he is taking all three kids (his and mine) out for the day so I can meet up with friends. I do the same for him.

I don't wish to make it sound like some Brady Bunch paradise because being a stepparent is hard and I've felt anxious and unappreciated at times. As has he. It's not the nuclear family I hoped I'd end up with (and although I don't love my ex, I do miss being a parent with him), but I believe communication is key and having 'difficult' conversations is a must, even if you're cringing as you have them.

I think though, that if he wasn't so fair and unbegrudging with money, the moving in would be a total non-starter.

Of course your DH should he contributing. IMO he should want to contribute. If he feels his finances won't allow a huge contribution, then you both need to look at what he could manage and whether that will be enough to offset some of the resentment you're feeling.

I cannot abide tight people though. I feel very strongly that being tight with money informs lots of other personality traits, none of which I find attractive.

^^back at poxy autocorrect

Oh NO - we're back to the why did the OP marry this man again. I can't count the number of times this has been asked. Ok it's a bit of a puzzle, but who are we to judge......life's a bloody puzzle sometimes!

Lisamed why are you posting about issues that are not relevant to the OP. I honestly don't know what you mean by this para:

While those two examples do not apply directly to you, they could be used as precedents in a split to show cohabitation. It may not be an argument that flies, but it may be an argument that is used. Perhaps the saving grace is that he doesn't bring anything in or contribute, as that shows no contribution to your home.

Precedents in a split ?? It may not be an argument that flies ?? (could be a typo) but it may be an argument that is used ?? Used where??

I think PFL and WTL you are being a tad juvenile.

I'm not setting myself up to defend the OP - in fact I think I posted something quite critical of her when she first posted, but I think she is in fact more vulnerable than she comes across in her posts. I can also see why so many posters are frustrated at the constant ruminations but I think banging on about cohabitation and how this relates to benefit claimants and widows is unhelpful.

Not sure where you've gone minki - maybe you've had enough, but GutsyMcF posted about exactly how long your DH has his children, and it seems like it is just the weekend, which isn't 50% - but every weekend might still be a concern for you. I understand this because I am a SP and dreaded the weekends and holidays when the SP came, but I won't go into that now. If I had my time again I would never get involved with anyone who had children. You only have to look at the SP threads to see the misery that these so-called blended families cause for all concerned.

ok. I will give you another opinion, in a slightly different vein.

I have been with my partner for 8 years. I have four children (all at home) he has two (older) I am a very high earning professional who co-owns a successful business. My DP is an artist, He earns virtually nothing, and lives with me & my children. He makes no financial contribution at all.

I love him, he loves me. We are extremely happy together. He and I both had unhappy first marriages and met after some time alone. We are not married because A) we are well aware that 'marriage' per se does not make a happy relationship and b) we both want my assets to go, eventually, to my kids - as they were mine before we met (and I pay the mortgage). Emotionally I consider us 'married' /together permanently - our household income is 'our' money and this is his home as much as it is mine. incidentally I may live in the same sort of area as you , as my home is work about £1.3 M now. There is a room n this house set aside for his children as and when they want to visit/ stay over. Its not very often , and if they stay at the same time they have to share / use the sofa. BUT its important to us both that there is a bed in their Dad's home they can call theirs if they ever need it. That room was my office , could be DS2 or 3's room ( they share) DS1 and DD have rooms on their own.

He does alot for me, and has made me very happy. His being here allows me to get on with my life - yet he does little childcare. he gives me confidence, love and support. But he doesn't buy the milk.

I find your attitude towards money very odd. You either love this man and want to be with him forever, (which is presumably why you got married) or you do not. You don't sound like you trust him AT ALL. You sound like you wanted the (false) security of 'marriage' without any of the obligations/responsibilities/ risks attached; and now you are running into problems because you are beginning to see that this just cant work. I also find it extraordinary how, as a woman with one failed marriage behind her, you could rush into another marriage with a an you cant even talk to .. have you ever had a relationship where you CAN talk openly honestly and in a way which promotes discussion and compromise rather than anger and bitterness?

I haven't even gone there with the children thing. Its too much of a minefield.

What are you going to do?

NanaNina In other areas of law and admin, the OP would be considered to be cohabiting (regardless of names on houses and council tax) at five nights per week and this could be an argument put forward in the event of a split.

The OP seems very unhappy, and I hope things work out for her.

Ok, to clarify, DH has his kids 50% of the time, so weds to sat every week. He is at his place with them weds after-school until Sat pm. He brings them here most friday nights. So if we live together they would be here wed-sat/ 50% of the time. RomillyJane, our situation are very similar indeed! The only difference is that we got married. I don't see that my attitude to money is that different to yours. You wanted your pre-marital assets protected to leave to your kids, as do I. As for all other earnings, I am happy to share what extra I have, but my point was that I don't have any extra as I pay loads more in mortgage, bills and childcare costs than DH. DSC already have a dedicated bedroom(s) when they come and DH is getting both rooms ready for them (beds, bookshelves, desks etc). He basically wants their rooms completely finished before they fix a date to move in. How old are you DSC? Sounds like they are a lot older and perhaps don't need dedicated rooms.

As for conversations about money ending in disaster, well, it has usually resulted in DH becoming very indignant and saying of course he will pay when we live together, so it makes it very hard to contradict him. I should clarify that he does usually bring milk or cereal on the night they stay over, but does not buy food the time he is here alone. I don;t think I am a poor communicator at all, just that this is a very difficult discussion to have as it feels mean and picky. As others have said, I hate meanness above anything else!

But have you not said, but you do spend a lot of time here! Where is the money for that?