Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

I am getting the impression MWF is the new BM...

I think context is everything. If posters are referring scathingly to children as mini wives I might judge them for it, but using it descriptively as a quick wayto explsin a situation when they are obviously clear eyed about who is at fault, I can't get wound up about. Same with BM, if used by a poster who is trying to undermine and belittle their step child's mother then it's not great, but when used innocently as a quick term of reference by a poster who does not seem to be trying to take over DSC's mother...so what?

Anyway, I don't use the BM term because I have taken on board how deeply offensive it is to many, so don't need to be persuaded on that.

I think there are ways we talk about things online for quick reference that would be inappropriate to use in real life or in front of children, but we can and should separate the two.

deeplytroubling

agree Scottishmummy

Daftdaddy, Morris? doesn't really cut it, does it? how about Abusivefather?

Have you actually tried to intellectually think about this?the adult male is the issue
the dad has a traipse of partners,inc their mother whom he leaves.hes creating chaos
And the kids get the blame for their behaviour,and impact upon the current partner

Scottishmunmy, she isn't blaming or demonisibg the child, she has said that.

Sorry river but the term MWS can/should never be used in a descriptive way. For me the word 'wife' brings with it all the aspects of being a wife which should not ever be used when describing a child.

When you are asking for support on a forum isn't it better to describe the behaviour so that good support/advice can be given rather than using a term which has a different meaning for different people?

scottishmummy you have actually read the thread, haven't you?

I'm not demonising DSD10. I'm frustrated and I'm tired.

Sometimes it does feel as though I play bad cop all the time as I seem to be the one who actually does some parenting in the home.

I have read the thread,she is demonising a child as manipulative and emotionally calculating
Her description about the child are harsh and uncomplimentary
The op has demonised a child as a rival for adult male affection.

scottishmummy can you elaborate? Maybe if you could point to where I have obviously gone wrong then I can rectify it.

I'm a little annoyed by your post.

You do sound tired and frustrated.
It is good that thi he are improving. Bit I still can't see the problem in terms other than your DH and his really poor parenting coupled with the fact that you can't even communicate with him because he won't even talk about it.

But Flossy, googling Mini Wife Syndrome brings up over 6m results, so where is this 'it should never be used' rule coming from? Are you saying the term should become competely taboo in all situations, or that it is appropriate to use in some contexts but not others?

scottishmummy I am surprised and sad that you think the OP is so completely awful and dreadful having read the thread. I guess it shows how many different types of people with different interpretations of the world and the people in it are posting on mumsnet. And sometimes we all just have to agree to disagree, except we rarely do, we try to change each other's minds on threads running to 1000s of posts that still leave people frantically defending their original opinions and determined not to give an inch... (this last part isn't about you, just mumsnet in general)

Scottish maybe she has but isn't it better to explain why that sort of thinking is wrong and not helpful?

Surly encouraging the OP to see it differently and give positive advice on how to try and change it is better than just agreeing or in your case being so blunt that any advice you offer puts the OP's back up and they become defensive?

I do not disagree with your thinking just how you go about it.

Good point about labelling the adult behaviour too though Morris. If the dd is 'mini wife' then he must be 'big husband', or something.

DP does subscribe to the belief that if Dsd10 is happy and has everything she wants he is doing it right.

Well clearly he hasn't got a clue about parenting and if he isn't willing to change this and gets defensive when talking about it, there isn't much hope for the poor child is there

OP are you kidding??? re read your original post. DSD does this. DSD does that. you go on and on about DSD, and other than backstory, barely a word about DP.

The very use of the term mini wife is offensive. You cannot see that, apparently, but take it as read - it is. It is never "just" descriptive. (Yes, river, it should be taboo.) To focus on DSD's behaviour is to blame her. Your language about your partner is extraordinarily accommodating.

You are endorsing and enabling his behaviour.

Clearly yes you're tired and vexed,and thats manifesting inappropriately onto child

The problem,in a nutshell,is you and your adult partner.unsaid things?issues,resentment

Lets be clear he's not unwittingly manipulated by his 10yo.he choses what he does.and unfortunately you dont like his choices/behaviour. That's the issue

I wonder,if unsurprisingly,you worry about longevity of this current relationship
He got form for leaving women

if everything between yiu and him was great you'd not be calling a 10yo mini-wife

Finally,the term mini-wife is wholly inappropriate
Wife is a societal term for matrimony and sexual partner,please don't use it regard a child

riverboat1 tbh I first heard the term on Mnet. I looked it up along with spousification and parentification. Some of the research papers were extremely helpful. I thought, this is what's happening with me. This is the behaviour both DP and Dsd10 are displaying. It made me realise that just thinking Dsd10 was a nightmare wasn't helping the situation. There was an actual cause behind it. Not Dsd10s fault and the focus should be more on Dps role as a father and how I could support him in changing the situation we found ourselves in.

Granted there are also a lot of unhelpful papers out there, but that's the internet for you.

Dear god,its alarming that some of you think because a term has google hits its credible
I could get millions google hits for diana was murdered.doesn't make it real or credible
Google is a search engine.its not credible peer reviewed,robustly tested forum

scottishmummy The child has been badly parented, to the point of emotional abuse, and yet you expect her to be a well balanced, rounded child with no behavioural traits as a consequence of that abuse?

Of course any child who has been forced to accept inappropriate emotional responsibilities by their parent will exhibit behaviours that are inappropriate, just as children who are physically, or sexually abused do.

Ignoring the child's behaviour, justifying it and defending it does the child a great injustice. Children who experience abuse should be acknowledged and supported, not defended and ignored.

The fathers parenting is an explaination for the child's inappropriate behaviour. Claiming that the child's behaviour is acceptable and should not be acknowledged merely minimised and ignores the abuse.

Im quite simply saying stop demonising the child.the adults are the issue
The complicated emotional dynamic between him,current partner is the real malaise
I will not speculate on the emotional or mental health of a child based on op skewed unpleasant narrative

river I do not buy in to the thinking that something is true just because it is on the internet.

The term MWS is not imo the best turn of phrase and for something as complex as these sorts of father-daughter relationships I do not think it is the correct term to use. As I said it brings with it something more sinister (not saying that it applies just what it means to me) and is not a productive or supportive label.

The fact that it is banded about on here as the answer by unqualified people that have 'read it on the internet' or had a professional say it to them for their situation worries me greatly.

I am not saying that parent/child relationship where the child assumes the adult persona don't exist, my own DM experienced this on some level when her mum died when DM was 9 yo. However she did not assume the role of mini wife but that of a care provider/cook/cleaner.

Where as a child who is asked to have the emotional maturity of an adult and required to make adult decisions because the parent can't/doesn't want to or is looked on for support as a replacement partner is in some way a mini wife. Even though I don't agree with the term.
If given the same label of MWS it implies the two examples I have given are the same when in truth they are not.

WakeyCakey

But 'mini wife' implys that the issue is the child adopting a wife role.
The child's choice. The child's behaviours.
It's all about the child. Not about the shit parenting that has created an awful dynamic

I was abused. I am not sure if when I was displaying difficult behaviours it would have been helpful to have a label attached to everything I did as if I was choosing it.
What helped me was people seeing me as a victim of an adults choices.

There was a similar thread other week.current wife,tumultuous relationship,step-kids as collateral damage

Drop the terms, using them is not helping you.

Focus on the adult. By all means think of a term that describes his failings and work on changing that. Enlist professional help if you can't do it alone.

scottishmummy I think you are more focused on the use of one phrase rather than the context it is used in.

I don't see how leaving one relationship 12 years ago and another 6 years ago makes him a serial womaniser. I certainly don't believe he is about to 'pack his bags & go'.

Yes, I do have to approach DPs parenting style and Dsd10s behaviour carefully. No-one would want to think they are doing their children harm. It's probably easier for me as an outsider to see that there are emotional issues with Dsd10 and as a result, certain aspects of her behaviour are not great. As she gets older and this become more ingrained, these issues will be harder to change.

I find it strange that wanting Dsd10 to grow into a happy well rounded young woman makes me an ogre!

scottishmummy If you don't believe the OPs post, then why comment?

A child who has been sexually abused sometimes displays inappropriate behaviour referred to as sexualised. Is that an inappropriate term, too? Doesnt that label, and attribute adult motives, to a child's behaviour?

And if a parent posted on MN that their child was the target of such inappropriate behaviour from a classmate, would you question the validity if her post because she was objecting to the sexualised behaviour of the child?

The OP has described actions of the father that places inappropriate emotional responsibility on a child. That is abuse.

Op yiu have a dysfunctional relationship with yiur husband.This manifests as blame dsd
Unfortunately,it can occur that one child us singled out wrongly identified as problematic
The problem is an adult one.you and your adult husband