I love him but I don't love his kids

[Dodo76]

I realise I am going to get shot down for this but want to be as honest as possible and get some advice. I've been with DP for just over 2 years. We met just a few months after my marriage broke down (emotionally abusive relationship, ex had an affair and left us although now trying to come back) when my DSs were 3 and 1. They are now 5 and 3 and DP has 2 kids, DSD who is 10 and DSS who is 8 who he has 50% of the time. DP proposed a year ago and we are planning to marry this summer. We have been discussing wedding dates and, whilst I am completely in love with DP and we get on brilliantly, I am really balking at the idea of us all living together. As my house is 6 bed and DP has a 1 bed (his kids share a room and he sleep on the sofa the days they are with him), it's logical that they would move in with us. The idea just fills me with dread though. I work full time so pretty much all my income goes on mortgage and childcare. DP earns about 1/3 less than I do but his job is much more flexible with loads of time off during the week and holidays such that he is able to collect his kids from school on the 3 days a week he has them. DP lives with us the half of the week that he doesn't have his kids. but we usually have a sleep over once a week with all the kids plus we have been on holiday all together several times. I seem to end up paying for a lot more than DP. He is here half the week but does not contribute to food or any other costs which I am ok about most of the time on the basis that he isn't properly living here. I also seem to pick up a lot of the costs when we go on outings or for meals etc plus his children will often ask for money for things, which has made me a bit concerned that I am going to be absorbing his costs if we were to move in together which I honestly can't afford as I can only just afford the costs I have. Whilst I think we may be able to resolve the financial side of things, my real concern is how I feel about his kids. DP is amazing with my DSs, fun, kind, attentive, plays with them, reads to them etc etc. I can't fault him. I try hard with his kids but I can't seem to feel the same warmth and enthusiasm he feels for my kids and I am not sure I ever will. They are quite clingy and it's very clear a lot of the time that they want their dad for themselves, even in small ways when we sit down for dinner, they both insist that they have to sit next to him (either side) which I just find frustrating. I think it's partly because they have never used childcare that his DCs are used to having his full attention, being with him and don't want to share him which is understandable but I can't help feel irritated by it and wishing he wouldn't mollycoddle them. They seem to like me but I find the weekends they are here a real strain and that I only relax when it's my own children so how on earth can we all live together? If it was every other weekend then I could cope perfectly but 50% of the time is a huge amount of time and would be a massive change for everyone. I genuinely don't know what to do. Help!

I've only read the beginning and without analysing everything he says or does, etc it's really, really outstandingly clear that it JUST isn't working.

Yes there are always things to iron out in relationships but really - this is awash. And it sounds like he isn't even aware you're so concerned about all these totally valid issues.

I would ditch the marriage plan, ditch the moving in plan and go into reverse. I really would.

I don't think you've got a chance really - I'm so sorry to say that but one in 2 or 3 marriages doesn't last and a lot have more going for them than this one.

Stop trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole, in other words, and cut your losses before the resentment gets too big to keep to yourself.

sorry x

Crikey, Treacletops, I just do not agree that by agreeing to marry him I agreed to be financially responsible for his kids. That may be how you do things but is absolutely not the rule and there is NO WAY I am going to disadvantage my own kids just so they are treated exactly the same as his kids! His kids are looked after by their parents and have never been in childcare. I would LOVE to be able to work part time and have more time with my kids but it isn't possible financially. His kids have other (non-financial) advantages that mine don't. As for this being sexist, well, I can only speak for myself but I have never been supported by a man in my life, nor would I expect to be, especially someone with two little ones to support. I am trying to do the most sensible thing here and protect my kids and myself from someone who I love but there is a chance could take advantage of me. Thanks so much for all the posts - really helpful and spot on but it's left me feeling really heartbroken as I do want to live with him and build a life together and it seems it just can't be. Ebearhug, you are totally right - I was looking for someone to say that it will be ok so go ahead OR for someone to tell me a way I can do it. I do wonder if I was 100 per cent sure I would be financially protected if I would do it. Pre-nups are apparently going to be enforceable in the next few years.

Ive not read all the thread, but i can't see this working :( Finances aside (although that is a MASSIVE issue), you have honestly said that you don't love his children - i can totally understand that. The thought of sharing my time/attention and love with someone elses children leaves me cold and i genuinely wonder how step families manage this. They clearly do and thats fantastic, but i can't fathom it. I would feel resentful having to share my DP too, but would feel resentful that my children might have to share me. If that makes sense.

As for him insisting tht you can't send your children to private school because he can't afford it - where the hell does he get off??? If you can afford to, and want to send your children to private school then you absolutely must. I could see that this might be more of an issue if his children lived with you 100% of the time but they don't. Further more - your children are 3 and 1, so thats another 8+ years before secondary school - his children will have left school and gone to college/university by then FFS!! So its not like it would be a direct conflict anyway.

I find it astounding that he doesn't contribute when he freeloads visits with his children. I would have assumed that the money would be 50:50 when you get married with everyone contributing equally, so whilst you might have to accept some small financial burden from his children - that would only be because it would be coming from the poor of both of your monies, if that makes sense.

He doesn't pay maintenance because he has them 50% of the time? does he has a court order for shared residence? if he doesn't he needs to pay, and to be honest he only has to pay about 10% of his net salary, it is not much, the mum is in a council home, and he still thinks she doesn't need the money????

Dear woman, what a catch! RUN while you can! You don't want that "gem" in your home. I would say he doesn't love you, otherwise he wouldn't be taking advantage of you already, even when he knows you are sponsorising him and his kids when you are together.

Frankly... what is wrong with us women??? It is ok to be alone until the right person comes along. This is not the one... honest, unless we are talking about the "one" who will fleece you.

Exactly Xalla, pre nups are not legally binding, just a statement of intent, it doesn't have much weight in court at all, if he decides to challenge it.

OP, cut the freebies for a 2-4 weeks (any excuse is good) and ask him to cover the expenses while his children are around, I'm sure you will get an idea of what to expect from they way he deals with things during that time:

-You may learn what is like to live within his means, and may understand what he is going through and you may be more prepared to support him and his children financially or,

• You will see that you are not financially compatible and would be more prepared to let him go.

Thanks LemmingAround, yes, it was my expectation that the pool or pot of combined money would go towards supporting his kids but not significant expenses. For a start, I simply cannot afford it as virtually all my money goes on mortgage and childcare although the childcare costs will drop in September when DS2 goes to school (my boys are 5 and 3, not 3 and 1). Even then there will be nothing to spare - all I will be hoping to do is live month to months without using my credit cards. DP doesn't pay maintenance to his ex. She lives in a council house but works part-time so I don't know how much she needs a contribution. I think they have an arrangement whereby he pays all the costs of one child and he pays for the other. I am now wondering if it's a bit strange that DP has never raised any of these issues with me or told me what he is going to bring to the table. I have tried to talk about finances several times and how it would work but he had very little to say. I think I would feel much more reassured if for example he had something to put in , e.g. 10k or 20k or equity but he literally has nothing, or at least he isn't offering anything. As for how I feel, LemmingAround, I'm afraid to say that you have articulated just how I feel. I really struggle to get my yea around it. Question is whether it is natural to feel like that and you just have to overcome it (which I think I could do if everything was done fairly) or that feeling alone is a show-stopper.

I have been where you are. :-( But mine took so long to propose that by that time I was totally disenchanted with the relationship, so I found it easy to say no.

He was stingy when he didn't have the money, and continued to be so when he started to earn far more than me.

I found that I had to forget about many things I liked doing because it was too expensive for him or, as I realised later, he found those expenses superfluous. Many times the only way I could get him to join me/us was for me to pay.

It was too much after a couple of years. At the beginning everything was new and different, very boheme, but at some point you realise that is not the life you want to live, especially if you are working so hard to give yourself and your children a better lifestyle. It felt as if I was pulling the cart on my own, as lovely as he was.

I think there are two issues - one being the finances - do you know how stable his finances are, is he likely to bring debts with him? So this would be a deal breaker if he is feckless with money, or likely to want you to pay the majority of the expense because you earn more. Have you considered what will happen to the house when he moves in? As in, will it be half his? That would only be fair if he was contributing to half, or would you conintue to be the sole owner, so would that mean that you would have to continue to pay all of the mortgage? Then he could still argue a contribution to the house if for instance, you paid the mortgage and he paid the other bills. Is the flat he is living in now rented or does he own it? There are an awful lot of difficult questions there - but ones that i feel, with the right partner and right attitudes on each side are not insurmountable - however, he sounds like he either doesn't like to part with his cash or is actually quite hard-up due his living circumstances and having to pay fo the kids too - so that would potentially change when he moves in so the money he pays for rent/mortgage would become available to the family. If he has other debts, i would be very wary.

As i said, the above is sortable - your feelings for the children? I don't know - as i said, i know i could never be a step-mum, because i have my own children. I could NEVER feel the same about someone elses child and i would be lying if i said i wouldnt be jealous and resentful, no matter how nice the children are. You already find them clingy (and have said that you understand this, but still find it irritating) and that your parenting is very different. This i suppose would be less of an issue if it wasnt a 50% arrangement, but it is - the only thing is that they are getting older and will be less clingy, but they will be teenagers soon. I predict a few bouts of "you're not my mum" etc. But they will be spending more and more time with friends and locked in bedrooms playing grunge music.

The thing is, i think he could well feel similarly about his own/your children - this is evidenced by him saying that he doesn't want his child to get the smaller bedroom, that they should go to private school etc. I assume that the boy's father will contribute to this? So he could well be harbouring similar resentments towards your children but hiding them well - i am sure your interactions with his children are pleasant and he probably thinks you are good with them (which iam sure you are) but you can see what i am getting at?

As i say, i am very cynical about mixed families, simply becaue I would struggle - saying that, my DP is my DD1's step-father and it worked out ok, but there is no mistaking it, he is a very good step-dad and always been good to DD1, but never a "dad" and he totally and utterly adores his DD (my DD2) DD1 has left home now - there was a big gap, but i think it could have been an issue if she were younger - not that he would have let it show, but really, at the end of the day - your feelings are your feelings.

I agree with the poster who suggests that as his kids would only be with you 50/50, then it's not really an issue if they don't go to private school.

But overall, I think you should remain living apart.

'or that feeling alone is a show-stopper'

it certainly should be and if it isn't tripping that switch for you, I think it means your settings are a bit off. (not a criticism of you)

Marriage is about exactly the opposite of feeling alone.

If you are lonely now - marriage isn't going to fix that. That would be going from it top-down.

What you need is to NOT feel lonely, and like you're not entirely sure you are Ok with someone, before you even think about marrying them.

You're supposed to be overjoyed and certain it is the right thing - not feeling like this.

I just want to add that you don't have to love his kids like your own. I don't love mine anywhere near how much I love my boys. It's impossible in my eyes. Also you don't have to treat them exactly the same - your dc live with you so they will get preferential treatment because your house is their home. If your DP can't understand that then that will be a problem.

Petal I can't see what's wrong in suggesting emotional support from friends or professionals. Some people might find either or both useful, others neither. If an OP said they were physically stressed - there would be no shame in suggesting help. Is there a stigma in suggesting seeking help to meet your emotional needs, so you and your family can benefit? Doesn't mumsnet serve that purpose to an extent?

And children are not in-laws. They are children. Each with their appropriate needs and personalities. In the BBC documentary series last year "Mum and Dad are splitting up" divorced parents and their adults kids reunited to talk through what it was like splitting up and its subsequent impact. Time and time again parents were stunned to hear their kids say how they felt ignored in - or worse - to blame for the split, despite their parents telling them at the time they weren't to blame. And that's without adding the complexity of stepfamilies.

If to suggest a parent seek emotional support so that they and their kids (incl step kids) can prosper is OTT, what are we coming to?

Dodo a gazillion posts could be in this thread, but in the end these are all just our views and advice, we're not living your life. I hope some of it has been useful to you. Whatever you choose I wish you and your family well.x

The great sex could be clouding your judgment. It sounds more like lust than love. Agree with others, definitely "postpone" your wedding. There are some major red flags unfortunately, his track record is a worry. Leopard, spots etc. Follow your instinct.

You're not financially responsible for his children. End of. The only situation I can imagine feeling that I was financially responsible for my DSD would be if something happened to her Mum and she was with us full-time.

You are not responsible for them if they're spending half their time with their Mum. Nor are you duty-bound to pay their school fees or provide them with big bedrooms!! You're responsible for being kind to them, that's it.

Dodo I think it's great you have reached out for advice on this issue. I wish I had the foresight to do that but even if I had, I don't know that I would have heeded the warnings! You should definitely. I was too in love and I still love my DH very much but it is overshadowed by a life full of conflict and resentment and judgement and constant stress and tension. I realise your decision is massive and causing great angst but I wish I was still at the precipice you are at and could choose the right road for me.

Many a wise person has posted for you on this thread and I think a lot of them have told you what you don't want to hear but that your instincts tell you you need to because it is only reinforcing beliefs you already hold but have tried to suppress. There are elements of your situation which would be workable with the right person however, this is not the case if the character of one of the parties is a little questionable, and will thereby be unlikely to either acknowledge the issues (as you see them anyway) or set about addressing them as a team. The things which would concern me about character are:
No offering to contribute some money to your household or at least consistent purchasing of groceries to help out. To be honest, I would say you are already funding his and his kids lifestyle and the expectation of this would increase with marriage.
Playing 'offended' when the issue is raised. Total red flag of trying to make you feel bad so you don't feel comfortable to raise these issues again and potentially thwart his freeloading plans. Any person of character would feel terrible that you'd had to raise it and would immediately rectify to it to ensure you were comfortable.
Ambition and drive and future prospects. Are there any? Is he lazy in terms of income producing work? He can say he has prioritised time with his children but so often this is just a convenient excuse and when his children need less of his time will he step up and work to contribute more? Doubtful.
I am not saying he doesn't love you, he probably does, and he's probably a really nice caring guy ( although I agree with another poster that bringing up the schooling and bedrooms shows a side lurking!). But, loving and caring and great sex will be a distant memory when his and his kids lazy arses are on your couch all day cleaning out your fridge, leaving their shit everywhere and get to spend more time in YOUR house than you do because someone has to work! Whoops I think I started talking about me!
It can work to continue the relationship and remain financially and geographically separate until it is just you two. My guess is if you suggest this he will be upset, probably won't be interested in hearing your reasons for it and will make you feel like a crappy person for even thinking it. In which case, you have probably just thwarted the great plan he had for a better life for him and his kids at your expense, and he's pissed!
You have such a great set up at the moment and worked so hard for stability, don't jeopardise it or your sanity.

Gettingmeback speaks lots of sense. Please listen to the advice of posters who have been in similar situations. I have only seen this situation in the lives of my friends, not experienced it first hand, but I can't see any outcome where blending your two families would actually work (unless he starts working a lot harder and earning what you do). So either you will be left with

a) You paying for him and his children, and you being resentful, which will drive a wedge between you, and you could split up and end up losing the roof over your children's heads that you have worked so hard to provide.
OR
b) A two-tier household, which really doesn't work - his children feeling like second class citizens, him feeling that they get a raw deal because he can't afford to privately educate etc etc. And him constantly guilt-tripping you about your DC having a better life than his.

However you look at it, combining your households is not going to work. And as other posters have pointed out, there are red flags all over the place - expecting your children to give up their rooms for his children who are only there half the time, when he only lives in a one-bed place himself so anything would be a step up? I think he has a plan to muscle into your cosy little life and improve his own lifestyle and that of his children without any more effort on his part.

OP don't marry him! If the sex is good and you are happy with him as a boyfriend then have him as your BF not your husband. He isn't providing for his kids by upping his working hours (p/t? seriously?) and working hard. You may have been honest with him about the lack of spare cash but I think this man sees your lovely house and work ethic as an easy ride. Keep things as they are - you are under no obligation. If he contributes ANYTHING once you are living together he could lay some claim to your house and I would bet my life savings on him doing just that 'for his kids'

Afraid to say that I agree with all of you, no matter how much I don't want to hear it. I truly wish there was a way around it. If I could be sure that I and DCs would be 100% protected, i.e. he would have no claim to the house if we broke up, then I might feel differently but that seems impossible to achieve. It's not just that though - as everyone has said, there is a massive risk that I will end up hugely resenting not just him but his kids. If I am honest I already resent him because he gets to pick up and look after his kids 3 afternoons a week. Very unfair of me but I would love to be able to do the same but I can't and it does grate. The thought of coming home from a day at work to find him being all cosy and doting on his kids in my house whilst my kids have been with a nanny and I've been at work would, I think, be too much. All I have to do now is to tell him I've changed my mind. Absolutely no idea how.

Gettingmeback, that's really spot on. His kids are 10.5 and 8 and he could easily put them in after-school clubs at least one afternoon a week so that he could ramp up his hours a bit rather than leaving early 3 days a week on the sly which is basically what he does. It does feel like the childcare is a bit of an excuse for not pushing himself/looking for something more challenging but I know he will never sacrifice a minute or hour of work over time with his kids. It's just the way it is. It will be very interesting if they ever decide they want to spend more time with friends and when they get to an age when they don't need a constant chaperone.

I can't believe people don't think thatif you have 4 children living in the same house that they should all have the same treatment. Completely shocked.
My Dad was brought up with step siblings and still his Dad gives the same about ofmoney at xmas to them all (the 'children' are now in there 70s).

At xmas I make sure that I spend exactly the same on them all, (or that it is the same value if I get some bargains),

My stepson got upset because there were less pictures on the wall of him than his siblings (purely because we a too lazy to print any out sonwe rely onwhat people give us, we got some done of him asap).

The 'sibling revelry' is amplified between steps even more, any percieved unfair is always upsetting for kids, so huge one like private to state schooling will create a problem for life. Or that he spends more time with his kids than you do woth your, that is going to make your children feel strange and question (rightly or wrongly) why you don't want to speend as much time with them. This will cause a rift between the kids, causing resentment and upset, hardly a happy home.

So its nothing to do with his money or your money, or SAHM against not, in my book when you get married you share stuff and agree on basic rules of child rearing, or as peole keep telling, you don't get married.

Treaclepot that may have worked for your dad's family but it doesn't work for all families. The kids have different parents and therefore will be treated differently. If my DSs' dad wanted to pay for them to go to private school, would we have to say no because DSCs, who would live with us 50% of the time, can't afford to go? That would be completely unfair. I actually think problems start when people insist that DCs all have to be treated exactly the same when that is an impossibility. It would surely breed resentment if some kids are being deprived just to keep up the notion of equality. It should be ok for me to give my kids more than my DSCs and I would fully expect my kids to question why I was giving DSCs the same as I give them. That's for their dad and the other parent to sort out, not me. Isn't it far better to recognise that whilst you may all be sharing a home and aspects of your lives, certain parts depend on the other parent and will be different. I think that's the only way it can work. I am working full time to provide for my kids and simply don't have the resources to provide for or do the same for two more kids and no decent parent would agree to split or share what they could give their own kids between additional DCs.

But Treaclepot, we’re not talking about 4 children who live in the same house – we’re talking about 2 resident children, and 2 children who stay there 50% of the time. It’s not the same thing. If you insist on complete parity for all four of the children, where would it end? Would the resident children have to have a treat if the non-resident children were given a treat whilst staying at their mothers? The situation would be impossible to police.

Sorry to do this thread to death but wanted to update on latest developments and ask for views on alternative ways of doing things. We have basically stopped the sleepovers and I have to say that I don't miss them at all although I do find 4 days/3 nights a long stretch to not see DP and that the relationship suffers quite a lot frm this and has taken a bit of a battering, although the extra time just DSs and I is brilliant. The sleepovers stopped following an incident in early Jan (New Year I think) between DS1 and DSS when DS1 got upset because DSS finished DS1's cereal so there was none left for DS1 who then complained and accused DSS of eating it all. I could see DP frowning at me so I said, half heartedly to DS1, you must share but really struggled to do this as DSS was eating loads plus I had in my mine that DP never does any shopping! DP then said, DS1 needs to learn to share and poor DSS must feel awful as he is obese etc so comments about his eating upset him, to which i said (trying to be calm and lighthearted), DS1 does share (he does usually) but that's his favourite cereal and he would be cross if DSS finished it, but to avoid issues in future why don't you bring cereal so they each have their own and there are no arguments etc? DP was massively offended and said, why would we bring our own etc, then said later that DS1 reminded DP to buy cereal next time they came to ours. Following that it was DS1's birthday party which was fine but DP became upset when I did not suggest a sleepover the following weekend on the basis that I had done for DSD's birthday the previous June and had a cake, mini party etc and that DSD was upset that I hadn't done the same for him. I just felt that he had had a party and that if DP wanted to do something further then he could have invited us over rather than me always having to make the effort. DP then said he felt that our lives were becoming more separate than more intergrated and that he expected me to be more involved with DSCs and that he wanted someone who loved them. That was about a month ago and we have not discussed it since nor had any sleepovers. I have thought about discussing it with DP but at the moment am not clear what I want so it's hard to open a conversation on that basis. I also wonder why he is not trying to discuss it more with me.

Separately, if I did decide to try and live with him, does anyone have any advice as to how to make sure he does not get a financial interest in the house? I am waiting to hear back from my solicitor on this and wondered if anyone knew. Would he and his DCs have to live for free as if they pay towards bills or mortgage they could claim an interest?