I love him but I don't love his kids

[Dodo76]

I realise I am going to get shot down for this but want to be as honest as possible and get some advice. I've been with DP for just over 2 years. We met just a few months after my marriage broke down (emotionally abusive relationship, ex had an affair and left us although now trying to come back) when my DSs were 3 and 1. They are now 5 and 3 and DP has 2 kids, DSD who is 10 and DSS who is 8 who he has 50% of the time. DP proposed a year ago and we are planning to marry this summer. We have been discussing wedding dates and, whilst I am completely in love with DP and we get on brilliantly, I am really balking at the idea of us all living together. As my house is 6 bed and DP has a 1 bed (his kids share a room and he sleep on the sofa the days they are with him), it's logical that they would move in with us. The idea just fills me with dread though. I work full time so pretty much all my income goes on mortgage and childcare. DP earns about 1/3 less than I do but his job is much more flexible with loads of time off during the week and holidays such that he is able to collect his kids from school on the 3 days a week he has them. DP lives with us the half of the week that he doesn't have his kids. but we usually have a sleep over once a week with all the kids plus we have been on holiday all together several times. I seem to end up paying for a lot more than DP. He is here half the week but does not contribute to food or any other costs which I am ok about most of the time on the basis that he isn't properly living here. I also seem to pick up a lot of the costs when we go on outings or for meals etc plus his children will often ask for money for things, which has made me a bit concerned that I am going to be absorbing his costs if we were to move in together which I honestly can't afford as I can only just afford the costs I have. Whilst I think we may be able to resolve the financial side of things, my real concern is how I feel about his kids. DP is amazing with my DSs, fun, kind, attentive, plays with them, reads to them etc etc. I can't fault him. I try hard with his kids but I can't seem to feel the same warmth and enthusiasm he feels for my kids and I am not sure I ever will. They are quite clingy and it's very clear a lot of the time that they want their dad for themselves, even in small ways when we sit down for dinner, they both insist that they have to sit next to him (either side) which I just find frustrating. I think it's partly because they have never used childcare that his DCs are used to having his full attention, being with him and don't want to share him which is understandable but I can't help feel irritated by it and wishing he wouldn't mollycoddle them. They seem to like me but I find the weekends they are here a real strain and that I only relax when it's my own children so how on earth can we all live together? If it was every other weekend then I could cope perfectly but 50% of the time is a huge amount of time and would be a massive change for everyone. I genuinely don't know what to do. Help!

Actually octopus I think it's all worth repeating...

Op Not to mince words - do you honestly think this man would have proposed after just a year if you had been living in a bedsit?

I cannot understand why you think your children need this in their lives. A man you've known for less than 24 months is planning to turn them out of their rooms in their own home? And you have to beg him to be allowed to make educational plans for them?

Other people don't seem prepared to spell it out. He wants your house for his children. (He may well love you - who knows...)

And to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he soon starts encouraging you to give up work too.

I'm not sure why you think that getting married will magically change your dp's approach to household finances. If he isn't contributing now or talking about contributing then I can't see that changing. I also think that the private school fees issue will be a huge on-going argument between you, especially if you do as agreed with your ex and your dp will see the difference (longer holidays for one thing).

Personally I would continue as you are (dating but not getting married) and see if he does decide to contribute to food etc. I would never dream of spending half my week with someone and contribute nothing.

Zero, I couldn't give up work as we would be depending on my salary to pay the mortgage. He cannot afford to pay more than 1/3 of the mortgage. I'm not sure if he would have proposed if my circumstances had been different. I think/hope so! I think he loves me but I can see there are massive reasons why he is incentivised! I think I would feel much much less resentment if he were going into this 50:50 but because I will be paying for the majority of everything it does cause ill feeling. Even if we were to sell up and start afresh somewhere else, I would still be paying for most things, unless of course we stuck to exactly 50:50 but that would mean a 1 or 2 bedroom house which isn't really feasible with 6 of us. It feels like I am financing everything. I want to address it without losing the relationship. I was hoping that if we could address the finances then I would feel more relaxed about his DCs living with us but I'm not sure they can ever be properly addressed as we earn different amounts. It may be that we have to keep things as they are until the kids are grown.

Zero, about what my DSs get out of it, I have of course thought about that and my response was him and a family. As I said in my opening post, he is amazing with them and they adore him. At the same time, they already have him here 3.5 days a week which is great then we have half the week by ourselves. I also think I have overstated the issue about the rooms. He did make some noises about his DS having the smaller room but then came around. He was not suggesting that my DSs should move out of their bedrooms (or I don't think he was).

I have also told him that I am concerned about finances and said that I simply cannot afford to pay any more than I am currently paying. He seemed offended and said he of course intends to pay his way. We agreed that we would split all household costs 2/3 to me, 1/3 to him on the basis that his kids are only here 50% of the time. So he does contemplate paying his share when he moves in. It's now that's the problem in that he does not seem to think he should pay for anything.

Given that he lives in a one bed roomed flat and has growing children who spend half their time with him - what plans did he have, when you met him for increasing his living space to accommodate them?

I'm awfully sorry but I'm old enough to recognise an empty promise when I see one. (Particularly the "being offended"...) He will not do anything differently after marriage to what he is doing now.

Zero, that is exactly what I thought and have said to him before. He would have to move anyway unless they were to continue sharing a room (bit difficult as they are girl and boy) and he is to continue sleeping on the sofa. Very convenient I guess that I happen to have a house large enough! I have tried to point out that I don't benefit at all (financially) by blending families and that it needs to make financial sense for both of us to do it and he, again, was offended and said, well his kids will have to commute to school etc which they would have to do anyway if he was to move. He lives is central London near his ex wife (who lives in social housing) and would have to move (much) further out if he was to afford a two bed. He is paying a huge amount for just a 1 bed.

To answer your question, he said that he was planning to move in the next few years. As I said, it would have to be a lot lot further out.

Do you love him enough to risk losing your house if the relationship ends? Remember, that house is most likely your children's inheritance, surely you want them to have it and not be forced to sell it to give him a share of it? It makes no difference if the house is in his name if you split up and he can prove a financial interest in the house.
If you must marry this man, do something to protect your investment and your children's future.

" DP is amazing with my DSs, fun, kind, attentive, plays with them, reads to them etc etc."

So essentially he likes doing all the fun stuff.

He's not interested in making sure there is enough bread or milk for them in the house unless prompted by you. He's already hinted that they might have to give up their bedroom(s) in favour of his own children. He's also quite happy for them to miss out on a private education.

Does he still sound amazing?

At the very least, postpone the wedding.

The easiest way to sort this for now would be to postpone everything, for at least a year.

His children aren't the problem. You are nervous about your relationship with them because you know it will be mediated through your DP and how he is with them...and deep down, you don't really trust the kind of person he is.

HE is the problem.

All the worries and fears you have outlined stem from one factor : you are increasingly seeing hard evidence that he is a taker and not a giver.

Everyday expenses.
Wanting before he's even moved in to see his children pushed to the forefront (bedrooms, schools)
Showing his hand already with how he wants the joint finances to work in his favour, and for his lower contribution to be ignored.
Taking an adversarial standpoint when you challenge him on any of these very reasonable points (MASSIVE red flag here).
Domestic laziness already rearing it's ugly head - WHY are you doing the shopping after work when he's been home since 3.30? WTF!!

These aren't thing you're worrying about in the back of your head. They're here in front of your eyes.

You don't NEED to marry and move in together to have a good relationship. In fact, with children of these ages, it might be more productive for all relationships involved if you don't, at least not for a couple of years.

Why not do that?

Stay as partners apart.
Let him indeed move further out, take responsibility for his own finances.
You stay as you are. Don't make that move that you dread.
Put off the wedding. Two years in isn't that long to get married!

What he says to that will be VERY telling. Because although it's likely that he's a lovely genuine guy who loves you, there's no doubt from what you've said that he's more than happy that he's fallen so nicely on his feet. And there a tiny chance that he is indeed a using bastard.

Never, never ignore your instincts when it comes to personal relationships.

Dodo76 why do you want to marry him? As in, have you determined why you wish to marry him. Doing this might help you get your thoughts clear about a number of things.

Also it has been mentioned above and worth restating that couples attitude toward financial matters, child rearing including education provisions and delegation of responsibilities is highly indicative of likelihood of longterm relationship success, and speaks hugely of compatibility, or lack of between couples.

For all those saying OP is 'rushing' into marriage - she has known the man for two years, so it's not exactly rushed to consider this.

That said, I think you should wait to move in together/get married. I think your relationship and a blended family could work out very well, but it will take a lot of talking and planning. Issues like 'should I send mine to private school while his go to state?' - that issue alone has been the subject of long and heated threads on this site. Who gets the bigger bedroom seems trivial, but it's the sort of snag you will run into again and again, and you two need to sort yourselves out as a team to tackle it. They're tough issues! No wonder they are causing you both grief.

So maybe you should hold off on the wedding and work instead on how you both want your relationship and family life to be. I'm sure it can be worked out. Good luck!

Dodo I felt sympathy for ou before. Now I have to say you are either very immature or very manipulative.

When you have children falling in love is different, it can't all be hearts and flowers and our love is so strong everything else can piss off.

He has children so yes living with him means living with his children for 3.5 days, and the potential for that to be full time if circumstances change.

What would you like him to do with his children? Does he really know how you feel? What would your proposal be for how to live with him but not his children?

I'm just shocked at your attitude.

Why doesn't he want to pay his way now - what's different ? He's as good as living with you? He's eating the food you buy using your heat light and hot water it's costing you money irrespective of the status of his permanent residence. You're subsidising his dc. Is it because he only wants to move in once you are married and he has got rights to your money and assets.

Who decided on the 2/3 1/3 split. Think about it what he's saying is that him (an adult) and his 2 pre teens cost half as much as you and your much smaller children - really is that fair.
So by this logic Your kids there all week cost the same as you/him and his kids cost nothing ? I bet his ten yo eats twice what your toddler does,

Think about it them being there half a week and yours being there all week probably evens out. Heat and light hot water is probably marginal so I would say your food shopping and other bills should be 50/50 or close to it.
If he can't afford it he needs to say so and demonstrate it ie show you pay slips bank statements etc and at the very least pay as much as he can afford to

I think eightandthreequarters has summed it up nicely. Work on it and put all other plans on hold for now.

TalkactiveJim, you have summarised the situation perfectly. I think I am trying to work out if he is a good person. I think he is but I don't know. He has been amazing with me but his past is not great (he had an affair which led to the breakdown of his previous marriage which caused massive issues at the start of our relationship as my ex had done the same to me). Yes, I should probably put things on hold or take longer so that I can be certain he is the person I think he is BUT, I do love this man and want him to be in my life every day and to try to build a future together. Living separately and seeing him only half the week is hard. You can't really start to build a life together. I would really love to find a way to overcome these difficulties so that it is possible. I think other posters are right in that it is not his DCs that are the main issues. Yes there are niggles but there are always going to be - I don't think (though I am not entirely sure) there is a fundamental problem with us accepting each other in each others lives, just a huge adjustment process. I think I am scared of risking everything I have for this person though and his tendency to avoid paying for anything has increased this massively. I am wondering if I should discuss this with him and tell him how much it is worrying me rather than waiting to see what he does. Also, I actually don't see the day to day living costs as particularly significant. He lives in a flat where heating/hot water/electricity etc are all inclusive so he has to pay a fixed amount whether he is there or not so he is not saving by not being there. So we are really talking about food which equates to 4 breakfasts and 3-4 dinners plus wine. Neither of us eat much and will probably only have dinner on two of those nights and cheese a biscuits the other. If we do eat it's pasta (i.e. cheap) and wine, which I do buy and he rarely does. So the cost is quite low. It's more the times when we have been on outings with my kids or trips to see my family, e.g this Christmas where I paid for all petrol, snacks on the way, bought wine/desserts etc, and he bought nothing although he did bring presents for my family. I honestly can't get it clear in my mind what is fair. I do think he needs to pay more but I am not sure it's a massive problem although i fear it could become one if his DCs were to move in as there are so many other costs and ways in which I could end up paying for things.

Idon'tdoironing, yes, his DCs eat WAY more than mine do. When they are here I am constantly replacing milk/juice/cereal which I am not used to. Looking at your logic a 2/3 / 1/3 split would not be fair, however, I am the higher earner. Does that mean I should pay more? Also wanted to add, in response to a post that DP only does the fun stuff, that he definitely definitely does the hard stuff as well - looking after my sick children, looking after them when my nanny doesn't show up so that I can go to work, dealing with a (very) challenging 5 year old, dealing with my nightmare of an ex, reading endless stories to my DCs, cooking/cleaning my house, DIY etc etc, so yes, his contribution is more in time than in money but surely that counts towards something?

TalkactiveJim, it is scary that you say there is a possibility that he is a using bastard. I just remembered that he told my his ex called him a user after he had an affair and they split. She was also the main earner and supported him whilst he studied then stayed at home to look after their DCs. Mmmm . . .

........ I am wondering if I should discuss this with him......

YES! YES! YES! Of course you should discuss this and everything else with him . Why on earth wouldn't you?

You are not painting a great picture of him, he doesn't sound like good husband/partner material to me.

You can't consider the issues with his kids as just 'niggles'. That does not bode well for the future.

I think the split of bills and shopping should be 50 50 as you will have more costs as you will have to pay for child care and school eventually. I don't think he has these costs. Also you could save any excess and put this in savings some for your dc and some for holidays unexpected bills etc.

Don't include the mortgage until you've had legal advice as it makes sense for you to pay more if you aren't sharing the equity.

I think the 1/3 to 2/3 split is not necessarily unfair if there is a proportional disparity in your incomes. It's often recommended on here when one partner is a significantly higher earner that you should pay in the same proportion of your incomes to your joint account for household expenses - it is the system my DH and I follow. But that is fine if you've looked at the costs and agreed it. Sounds as if you have jumped quickly to that agreement. Also, though, he's not living there yet and even if it's 'only a few meals' it does add up. Him letting you pay for the kids' outings is also not great IMO - he would have to pay for these trips himself if you were not together, so he should still be contributing, not leaving you to pick up the entire tab.

Could you try saying this week 'Can you please do a shop for the weekend after you leave work this Friday? Get extra juice and cereal in as part of it please as we always go through those quickly', and just see how that goes down.

It sounds like you got out of a bad relationship and this guy seemed wonderful in comparison. Maybe most guys would have seemed wonderful compared to your ex, and now you're seeing some potential issues. It's good that you're not ignoring them and just hoping for the best.

Truthfully, the best way to protect your children's financial and emotional future is to halt these plans. What do you gain by marrying? Keep the house in your name and don't let him move in until he's already shown that he also wants to protect your financial status. By actions, not words. I.E. he is willingly offering to pay or suggesting cheaper weekend trips, etc. You seem sure that a pre-nup will protect you. Have you taken advice?

It sounds like both sets of children would appreciate some time with just their own parent. They've all been through a lot in a short time and have no control over massive changes in their lives. Spending time (apart and together) ensuring that all the children feel secure and want to live together is the best way to ensure the relationship will work IMO.

I'd stop this casual arrangement where he comes round on certain days. Do more dating and less family time. Invite him over some days, but not every day that he's free. What's the rush? There's too much at stake.

If you do decide to marry then do so with open eyes - in sickness and in health - what if one of you couldn't work through ill health? If you're not prepared to take that on (and I'm not saying you should) then take more time now.

Was he a sahd for very long in his marriage?

Did this affect his career and earning potential?

Maybe being the sahd has had some impact on his current housing/earnings, so I wouldn't be so quick to declare him a "user". I think it would usually be women in this situation so it also seems a little sexist as well.

Talk to him, find out what his earlier plans were for his future housing, career progression etc before you decided to move in together.

Definitely hold back on moving in/marriage. And why don't you do some sort of budget for the time he stays with you. I think him contributing to the food/petrol budget 50%, he doesn't need to pay for rent/utilities etc while he isn't if officially living there.

When you are out altogether he needs to always pay for his and his dc's activities/eating out etc 100%. Just make a decision that you just pay separately when out and about, very easy to do as you would do this if out with friends anyway.