18yo Santa visit

[sequinsequins]

We are in an unusual position in that 18yo DSS still sticks to the access rota to the absolute letter. This weekend is an access weekend, and the only day we managed to get tickets for the santa train we go to every year with 4yo DS. I had (naively it turns out) assumed that an 18yo would not want to come to see santa. It turns out I was wrong, and he does. And let's not assume this is about wanting to see DS excited or similar - this is the same DSS who didn't turn up to see DS on his birthday, as it wasn't an access weekend (he lives 3 miles away so no issue there). He will come with us and traipse along, taking any possible joy out of the day.

This is never ending and quite frankly gets me down.

Even assuming that we could all somehow arrive, through the magic of the internet, at a diagnosis or explanation, what difference would it make?

He's a young adult now, and the OP has no more influence over diagnosis or treatment for his 'condition' (whether that be a physical, emotional, or psychological one) than I do for my sister-in-law or my third cousin. Possibly she has less, given that the young man's mother is not inclined to accept advice or intervention from the OP.

It is not the responsibility of the OP to deal with the DSS's issues. This actually is about the Santa train, because that is the thing which OP can reasonably expect to influence. The reasons behind it are not for her to address; she can't, and she doesn't have any legal or moral or emotional obligation to do so.

OP, you are quite right that it is about looking for ways to deal with your DH, and getting to the point where you are saying "I'm taking the little ones to see Santa", and be confident of being supported in that by your DH. Myself, I'd be inclined towards recommending rows (with DH) and the putting down of feet, if's what it takes...but I also know that it isn't always that simple.

What if next time (I mean next comparable event, obviously) you don't discuss in advance? You get the tickets, and present it as done. Dou don't ask for permission, you don't have to.

brdgrl OP has asked what her husband can so, so whether or not she has any influence is irrelevant.

I happen to think anyone who abuses a child, whether physically or emotionally, is "awful", and I make no apologies for that

I agree. But her being [possibly] abusive doesn't preclude possible SNs.

With all due respect, you do not know him

No I don't. I'm just going by the details you have posted here, which, TBH look like an ASD checklist.

you do not know what experience I have of SEN, you do not know which professionals DSS has seen over the years. I know the answer to all of those questions and I do not believe he is SEN. Neither does DH, any of DSS's teachers, or the professionals he has seen. If you think you know different, then bully for you. What is clear to anyone who DOES know DSS is that he is utterly terrified of his mother and as a result, very very compliant to her demands

So has he been assessed previously?

Are you an educational psychologist, clinical psychologist or a paediatrician? if so and you have seen your DSS in a professional capacity then fair enough.

DSS has been seen in a professional capacity. Clearly not by me . As you undoubtedly know, that would be massively inappropriate

And just hahahahaha at the "possibly" abusive.

Who was he seen by and for what reason?

Yes, obviously it wouldn't be appropriate for him to be seen by you [if you are a professional in that field] my point, as you undoubtedly know, was, are you qualified to assess for any SN.

Even if he has been assessed for SNs in the past, it wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't have a SN. If he has and given the ongoing issues, it would make sense to pursue further.

Amber leaf you are like a dog with a bone. I don't agree with you, due to my knowledge of DSS and by professionals. By all means persist, but you really are barking up the wrong tree on this one

The other problem is that the OP is simply out-numbered. When you've got a step-adult, your DH and the ex all wanting one thing, and you want to do something different, you're on a hiding to nowhere.

I realise that no one has any legal hold over the OP's DH, but combine a weak, Disney Dad with a difficult ex and a brainwashed teenager, and it's a very difficult battle to win.

I think l would go headlong into a row with DH now too. That's what l did in the end. I too had a 'Rodney' looming around us at the most inappropriate occasions , for many years well into his twenties. One day l just thought 'you know what DH, l am not pretending any more that l don't mind , or that this is all nice and/or normal' and from that day on l just called it as l saw it. Basically I stopped behaving in a way designed to purely avoid rows and started raising objections and even ultimatums at the more ridiculous situations. After a while DH did 'get it' and things started to improve because ss moved out mainly .

I've suggested something. Go to family therapy on his access weekends. Once you are in family therapy the therapist can do individual sessions with each of you, including him. If the issue is born of his relationship with his mother then there is a chance that this will help with that.

We could spend a lot of time exploring what could have been done differently in the past but that's not much use. You are where you are now. And you may have to just accept that EOW he's there unless you are all away and he'll only change when he decides he wants to and having decided stands up to his mum.

We had many rows, and I put my foot down on many occasions; eg if DH and I planned to visit friends, but we're then expected to take 18 yr old Rodney along, due to it being an access weekend, I would simply refuse to go.

DH's response was always "but he's not doing any harm ...." (This is the same DH who was in an infantry regiment at age 18). But when push came to shove, DH always made it quite clear that he would rather let me go than challenge the "access visits for adults" situation, so I was left without any bargaining chips.

Not quite sure how things would have panned out if DSS hadn't gone to Uni.

PS - I tried detaching, and pretended that having to make child care arrangements for an intelligent adult was perfectly normal. But the stress of bottling it up got too much, I also realised I was enabling the situation by not challenging it.

In DH's ideal world, he could spend infinity infantilising DSS EOW, with me smiling adoringly at the sidelines.

" You are where you are now. And you may have to just accept that EOW he's there"

Until when? Until he's 23, 25, 30, beyond? I dont thinks its reasonable to blindly accept an adult, family or not, landing uninvited EOW, no matter what you're doing and expecting to do it with you, indefinitely. I really don't.

And if as an adult I did go along with it acceptingly, surely I would be complicit in facilitating his infantilisation

Yes Petal , l know. My DH always made me feel it would be a dealbreaker and he would let me go if l didn't go along with his 'Disneying' of Rodney and bloody well smile about it. You can only go so far with bottling up all that and faking comfort with the situation. I think sooner or later most people would explode and call their bluff. In my case it didn't end up with us splitting up (obv.) so to a degree my DH was obviously trying to keep me toeing the line for fear of losing him. In his mind , that way he got to 'keep' his sons affection and keep me in his life. Because l firmly believe a lot of this Disney parenting by NR dads is borne out of fear of losing contact with their 'child' even when they are adult.
One argument that highlighted that for me was at a time when DH had fallen out with his oldest son over a family matter (nothing to do with me whatsoever) and despite DHs best efforts they didn't speak and he didn't visit us with his family for months. DH was very cut up about it and could tell you to the hour how long since he last spoke to his son.
His other son in his early twenties , the one who lived with us was behaving terribly and without starting a whole other thread had been continually doing something for weeks involving stealing from me and blatantly lying about it. I asked DH to sort it out after me failing to get him to stop and after DH had several words with him to no avail. DH refused to have another go at him or put any stronger sanctions in place even though he admitted it was unacceptable on the grounds of 'I cant lose him aswell, l just cant'.

Exactly sequins x post. Somethings gotta give (usually the stepmum) or if not DH and DSS and EXW will quite happily bob along on the easiest course of resistance.

You've just ignored my advice for the second time.

Petal l seriously wonder if DH and l would still be together if 'Rodney' hadn't finally left home. I was completely at the end of my tether and had even got to the point where l had accepted l might even have to give up DH whom l absolutely adore , for the sake of my sanity.

Who said I ignored your advice?

Me. I have twice said try family counselling and twice you have ignored it, instead picking up other parts of my posts.

What I also meant to ask the other night was where do you want your family to be? What would have to happen to get to that point and what is the likelihood of being able to take those steps?

I haven't ignored it, I have googled it and am looking into whether that would work for us. Jeez.

"What I also meant to ask the other night was where do you want your family to be? What would have to happen to get to that point and what is the likelihood of being able to take those steps?"

I want a situation where there is a normal relationship with DSS whereby he will accept that he is a member of our family rather than a compulsive EOW visitor. So not declining every non EOW request, not following a rigid access rota.

As to the likelihood of this happening? Honestly, I would say less than 5%, certainly within the next 5 years.

Bahhumbug, you raise an interesting point. DH is estranged from his daughter, a long story and nothing to do with me, but DH has often commented that he could never upset DSS, in case he lost him too.

All very unhealthy.

I would never expect DH to chose between me and DSS, but there have been times when I've been tempted to ask him to choose between me and Extreme Rota Compliance For Adults. But I never had much confidence that he'd choose me, so intense was his obsession.

There's quite a dark element to the relationship between DH and DSS.

So have you had to buy an extra ticket now? Does that mean he will in theory be sitting on his own, as his won't be booked in a block with yours? Perhaps your DH could go to the 'other' block of seats with DSS and you can sit with your DS?

As for the lunch, I would follow ExcuseTypos's advice and ignore it all except for him bossing DS.

I know the thread's broadened out but I just wanted to go back to the practicalities of the day. I am also taking my DS on the Santa train (wonder if it's the same one?) and it's a lovely day out - hope it works out that way.

That is sequins prerogative Billy but l think she actually has acknowledged the suggestions of counselling and why it hasn't worked in the past.

Petal and l seem to both be advocating an 'enough is enough' policy and refusing to go along with these ridiculous situations anymore. Even if this means huge rows initially with a DH or deciding to ignore the shadow of the axe ending your relationship that's been keeping you in your place thus far , sometimes we have to say 'Enough , do your worst , l am not playing anymore'.

I don't mind which advice (if any) sequins chooses as long as she hopefully gleans something from this thread, whether it be a coping mechanism , a possible solution /resolve to see it through or the benefit is merely cathartic.

I don't actually think the OP's DSS needs counselling. He just needs a kick up the backside and some decent parenting. Although I think both are unlikely to happen.

My DH has never accepted the extreme rota compliance model or the peripheral NRP role in his DCs lives that was anticipated by the DSC due to their Mums input.

It's taken 5 years of chaos, court, allegations and confusion for DSC mum to admit that is what she expects and the only contact she would have tolerated post-separation.(interestingly, it is modelled on her relationship with her own dad).

As far as she is concerned, DH has blown his chance of ever seeing his DCs again because he "dared" to parent them while they were visiting, and "gave them ideas" that were wrong. In other words, he gave DSS more freedom which he enjoyed and taught DSD how to budget.

I applaud a NRP who doesn't tolerate/facilitate/enable this type of unhealthy parent-child relationship, but it comes at a price - and that may be the child choosing not to see Dad at all if it can't be on the terms that their Mum dictates.