18yo Santa visit

[sequinsequins]

We are in an unusual position in that 18yo DSS still sticks to the access rota to the absolute letter. This weekend is an access weekend, and the only day we managed to get tickets for the santa train we go to every year with 4yo DS. I had (naively it turns out) assumed that an 18yo would not want to come to see santa. It turns out I was wrong, and he does. And let's not assume this is about wanting to see DS excited or similar - this is the same DSS who didn't turn up to see DS on his birthday, as it wasn't an access weekend (he lives 3 miles away so no issue there). He will come with us and traipse along, taking any possible joy out of the day.

This is never ending and quite frankly gets me down.

My 18 year old DD is going with us to a Winter Wonderland at the weekend, and the younger ones will probably see Santa, never thought of not inviting her TBH.

To me, if you have children you accommodate them when they come to stay.

Dd1 is 23, left home at 19 to go to uni and is now working. She has always come home about once a month for the weekend, and longer during the holidays. If I'd planned something for dd2 and I knew dd1 was going to be at home, I wouldn't dream of excluding DD1 from the trip.

It's just polite to ask everyone in the house, if they wish to join you on a planned outing.

It's just polite to ask everyone in the house, if they wish to join you on a planned outing.

And if they say yes, is it reasonable to expect them to be polite by behaving in a way that doesn't adversely affect the mood? To engage in conversation? To join in? To be involved?
Or, is there no expectation of polite behaviour from the young adult to whom the invitation is extended?

Ahh but Mumallthetime you should know full well that the blame , the need to try harder or adjust their own behaviour must always fall with the stepmum , by default. It's in our job description.

HTH.

"Does he like his dad? Has their relationship always been so nothing (sorry cant think of a better word) I just have a vision of an 18yo spending eow sitting saying or doing nothing. Wearing for everyone I should think."

It's as good a relationship as you can have with such rigidity and restrictions in place. So they get on well when he's here, but there's none of the casual going to see the latest film any time, going for a pint, a bonding camping weekend or anything like that because they're simply off limits. To the extent that one to one time can be fitted into a slavish EOW basis with an adult child, then yes on that level it's a good relationship. Outside of what DH arranges for them to do, or what we all do as a family, then yes, he will simply follow DH around. Often to the extent that DH bumps into him when he turns round. Or we're all bumping into each other in the kitchen

Op you say he will 'suck the joy' out of the day. What will he actually do? Is there any way you and DH can decide together, he isn't going to be allowed to spoil the day.

I say this as someone who's experienced my DDs have 'teenage angst and moodiness'. DH and I used to ignore them and jolly everyone else along.

If we go for lunch before, which we are now doing, he will fuss over the menu. When his food comes, he will pick round it and not really like it. He won't really say much and will have a long face for the duration. He will skulk behind like he doesn't want to be there. He will boss DS around.

Just ignore him when he makes a fuss over the menu and the food.

Ignore his long face and the sulk.

If he bosses DS about ask him to let DS make his own mind up about things.

Keep a smile on your face, concentrate on your DS and his enjoyment. Thank DSS for coming (yes really) tell him that you're all pleased he's there to see his half brother visiting Santa. Even if DSS remains sulky, just don't let it spoil your day.

Being a fussy eater can be because of sensory issues, you know...

But ignore it. It's only an issue if you let his fussiness bother you.

Keep a smile on your face, concentrate on your DS and his enjoyment. Thank DSS for coming (yes really) tell him that you're all pleased he's there to see his half brother visiting Santa. Even if DSS remains sulky, just don't let it spoil your day.

This. Aren't family christmases wonderful :)

AmberLeaf, if you read on in that post you would see that I did mention how this was also his Fathers issue

Yes I saw that, I agree that his father has a role in this situation and Ive said as much, but you implied and then confirmed in your last post that you think it is of his Mothers creation. If there are two active parents, then you can't say anything is the fault of only one IMO.

amber, no, I don't know the OP personally - but i hsve been following her situation because have first hand experience of the behaviour of her DSS with my DH DS

But you don't have 'first hand experience' of the OPs DSS behavior do you? You may have things in common with her situation, but they are obviously different people, It comes across as projection TBH.

Tbh mumallthetime has it spot on

What do you think about pinning on a smile and ignoring DSS's behaviour?

I'm well practised at that routine Excusetypos

But why no camping weekends for example? If he came Friday-Sunday, that could be two nights camping? Or why can't your dh bring him to the pub on a Friday or Saturday night?

Does his Mum have any other children?

The acess rota starts at 6.30 on a Friday, although his mother makes sure she has him doing something for her such that usually it's not until 8ish. It's simply not feasible to start driving at that time and arrive at a campsite in the dark and put up a tent. It used to happen when he was younger, but as he's got older this boost 6.30 creep started.

On you're being obtuse, of course I didn't say he can never go the pub, it just can only be regimented according to the access rota, never spontaneous and never any other time than EOW.

No, his mother has no other children

Okay - my advice is to treat the situation as if he does have ASD or something. If he is going to be so rigid in his thinking, then you need to accept that.

But also you and your DH can sit down with him and discuss some ground rules eg. not following his father so closely that his father can't move. Fix rigid times for them to be together, and times that he needs to "chill". It may be less flexible than is ideal for you, but it might work for him.

One thing I am curious about is: does he get stressed when his mother "gives him jobs" so he doesn't get to your place until late? If not ASD may not be the problem (or maybe not his - could it be learnt behaviour from his mother?).

However often accepting that you are just going to have to work around the rigidity can help - surprisingly.

"One thing I am curious about is: does he get stressed when his mother "gives him jobs" so he doesn't get to your place until late?"

No, because DH doesn't make a whole fuss or shout. He knows there are no stressful consequences for being here later, it's more relaxed. It's on the way back on a Sunday that's a problem.

What comes across in this thread is that this young man, is not typical or "normal" for his age, for whatever reason. He may have undiagnosed ASD related behaviours, combined with his mum's over ridged adherence to routine and his dad's gone along with it and it's how your DSS is. He may be socially inept or have socialisation difficulties (not every young person is the gregarious social butterfly who mixes well and is chasing independence). You just have to accept it's how he is and deal with it.

If he's sulky, it may well be he knows his social inadequacy causes problems for him and others. It maybe that he is so isolated because mum or dad's place is his "safe place".

My ds has ASD. He's 13. He's socially isolated and I can well imagine (and I try as hard as I can to NOT make this come true) that he will remain so, as he heads toward young adulthood. It is how he is. My 18yr old nephew is just being assessed for dyslexia having gone through school with never so much as a whisper of the condition but, college have picked up on it. Sometimes, people slip through the net and aren't diagnosed til much later in life.

I agree with mummytime. It's how he is and it needs accommodating.

Eliza - so if the OP's DSS is still clinging to the access rota age 25, should she still be expected to accommodate it? Surely there comes an age when rigid rota compliance should be expected to cease? I'm not suggesting contact should cease, but surely a more relaxed, age-appropriate relationship should develop?

An appropriate relationship should develop yes, but appropriate should be defined by the respective cognitive abilities of people in the relationship, NOT the age of one of them.

If the dss is never capable of a relationship outside the rota does his father refuse to see his son in the hope that he'll somehow develop an age appropriate response and arrange to see his father himself, or does he continue to see him EOW knowing that his son is simply not capable of anything else?

Though tbh his father really needs to sort things out (not the OP - it's not her role) with his son. Personally I'd have been insisting on him replying to emails and texts YEARS ago, and am quite that he has only started to do this recently.

And still the OP thinks he's NT.....

My DS is 15 and would behave exactly like the OP DSS if he was at a santa train event. Sullen, full of apathy, negative, miserable etc. and yes he would drain the "joy" out of the day.

DSD2 also aged 15 would be very similar.

DSS aged 14 would be the same as DS.

The difference is none of the above would want to come, they would make it quite clear that they would rather stay at home, see their friends etc.

None of the above have any SEN. I would say their reaction is a normal teen reaction.

DSD1 aged 17 would be just like OP DSS, would want to come, but then be as miserable as the others.

DSD1 has recently expressed a fear of "growing up", has been controlled by her parents arguing and fighting over her and her siblings. She is scared to implement a less formal contact routine as she has seen her parents going to court and continuously fighting over contact details. That has taught her that contact with Dad is something that involves conflict.

She manages to hold down a part time job, has a long term boyfriend and study for a couple of A levels, takes on a lot of responsibility for her youngest sibling at Mum's house and does not have SEN.

In my opinion she simply needs some guidance, some honesty and some freedom. She needs to learn that going out with Dad during the week isn't a "crime" and that santa type visits aren't the most enjoyable way to spend time with Dad. She needs gentle encouragement to do more age appropriate activities. Just as OP DSS needs to learn. It's the parents job to teach this.

Petal02, of course I agree with your point, absolutely but something's amiss here. The dad should really be stepping in to get to the bottom of it and in the nicest possible way suggest that, rigid rota compliance isn't what's expected at his age. However, for whatever reason, the young man just doesn't get it and sounds like he's socially isolated (again, for whatever reason) and only has either his mum or his dad in his life (and the OP, obviously).

It must be very difficult and I don't want to sound like I'm coming down hard on the OP but what the young man should be doing he appears unable to do.

Eliza, I agree that the dad should be stepping up here. He's the one person who could solve the problem. Having been in a practically identical situation myself, I know how incredibly frustrating it is, when your DH won't do any parenting, leaving your household at the mercy of a teenager's apathy.

"It must be very difficult and I don't want to sound like I'm coming down hard on the OP but what the young man should be doing he appears unable to do"

OR

It must be very difficult and I don't want to sound like I'm coming down hard on the OP but what the young man should be doing he appears unwilling unable to do.