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Original poster

18yo Santa visit

407 replies

sequinsequins · 10/12/2013 08:47

We are in an unusual position in that 18yo DSS still sticks to the access rota to the absolute letter. This weekend is an access weekend, and the only day we managed to get tickets for the santa train we go to every year with 4yo DS. I had (naively it turns out) assumed that an 18yo would not want to come to see santa. It turns out I was wrong, and he does. And let's not assume this is about wanting to see DS excited or similar - this is the same DSS who didn't turn up to see DS on his birthday, as it wasn't an access weekend (he lives 3 miles away so no issue there). He will come with us and traipse along, taking any possible joy out of the day.

This is never ending and quite frankly gets me down.

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Eliza22 · 12/12/2013 14:51

But Sequins he seems to have some (? What) difficulty in relating to and forming relationships with, his peer group and the simple (for most people) ability to make friends. If he's not at home/with you and his dad, what's he up to?

If he's just totally unwilling to anything and hangs around sulking and making everyone's life a misery, your DP must sort this.

ScandinavianPrincess · 12/12/2013 14:56

I think it is sweet that he wants to go. Lots of kids that age can't be bothered to join in family stuff.Yes, he may be 18, but in many ways mentally he is still a kid. You sound very resentful of him. Maybe he is difficult sometimes, I have no idea, but maybe you could grit your teeth and include him. He is your stepson and part of your family and you could show him some love and kindness. Young people are not as tough as they look.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:13

"If he's just totally unwilling to anything and hangs around sulking and making everyone's life a misery, your DP must sort this"

Yet I've asked about 4 times on here for suggestions and no-one has any

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Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:14

Scandinavian sorry but the thread has somewhat moved on from the specific santa train point

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Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:24

"But Sequins he seems to have some (? What) difficulty in relating to and forming relationships with, his peer group and the simple (for most people) ability to make friends. If he's not at home/with you and his dad, what's he up to?"

He says he has friends at school but that he's not interested in seeing them at weekends. Tbh I do remember people at school who would be friendly enough at school but just not be interested in seeing anybody at weekends. I don't assume they all had SEN.

"If he's not at home/with you and his dad, what's he up to?"

At his mums - she keeps him 100% busy and so doesn't have the issue with downtime that he frequently has at our's. She doesn't want him to have any life outside of her and he doesn't. He is exactly what she always wanted him to be. When he had friends earlier in his life she would decide she didn't like any of them and guess what, that was the end of that. When one of them called round our house one weekend, she hit the roof when she found out and he was scared of it happening again and so it didn't.

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titchy · 12/12/2013 15:28

Well your DH telling what's happening the weekend he's due and asking whether he wants to join in or not, getting him to decide what your eating, or what he wants to eat. Anything to get him actively making decisions rather than having everything decided for him. Small steps, but your DH should have started this years ago. And get involved in the uni process even if his mother doesn't rate your dh's knowledge. Your DH must really get proactive here.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:33

"Well your DH telling what's happening the weekend he's due and asking whether he wants to join in or not, getting him to decide what your eating, or what he wants to eat. Anything to get him actively making decisions rather than having everything decided for him. Small steps, but your DH should have started this years ago."

DH does all of these every week, and has for a very long time. So every weekend for the past 10 years:
DSS "what are we doing this weekend dad?"
DH "DSS you should be thinking about what you would like to do..........."

The next access visit
DSS "what are we doing this weekend dad?"
DH "DSS you should be thinking about what you would like to do..........."

Every time for 10 years. That's just one example - DH over the course of a weekend will make various attempts to get DSS thinking. It works temporarily for specific things but then he comes back 2 weeks later re-programmed

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sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:35

"And get involved in the uni process even if his mother doesn't rate your dh's knowledge. Your DH must really get proactive here"

DH has been talking to DSS about his uni choices regulatory for well over a year. DSS did actually go to open days - DH accompanying him would have been out of the question as they didn't fall on the EOW access visits.

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titchy · 12/12/2013 15:40

Then he needs to try with closed questions the way you would with a younger child. Choose a or b. And unis have several open days. I can't believe none fell on a non access day, besides which there are websites they can browse and discuss together.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 15:54

"And unis have several open days. I can't believe none fell on a non access day, besides which there are websites they can browse and discuss together"

He chose to go to ones he could go to with his mother. This is clearly not getting through, but he does EVERYTHING with his mother. If he even dared to go to an open day with his father she would go absolutely beserk, and he is terrified, beyond terrified, of that.

"Then he needs to try with closed questions the way you would with a younger child. Choose a or b"

In respect of closed questions, DSS will generally choose whichever response he things the requestor wants to hear.

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OneStepCloser · 12/12/2013 16:18

He is being emotionally abused sequins by his mother. If he is that terrified of repercussions from talking to his father about anything in his life. Your dh needs to hot foot it first of all down to the school and talk to them, something he should have done a long time ago. They will point him in the right direction and get some counselling sorted out for his son.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 16:22

He has had counselling, a few years ago. As I mentioned earlier, I have said to DH I think he would benefit from more counselling. DSS has refused this.

"Your dh needs to hot foot it first of all down to the school and talk to them, something he should have done a long time ago."

DH has been to the school. They think he is doing great (A grade student). When his mother heard DH had been, she want crazy at DSS (not at DH, as she refused to speak to him).

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titchy · 12/12/2013 16:23

Well no wonder he sticks so rigidly to the rota if he's terrified of his mother. It's the only way he can see his father. He's way too scared to even begin to arrange to see his dad at any other time.

Do you ever read the stately homes threads? If you do you'd see it's difficult enough for seemingly well adjusts adults to go against their parents however abusive they are, and you're expecting a (possibly ASD) teenager to be able to do just that. I feel nothing but sadness for this poor kid, you could try and understand what it's like for him, and frankly your DH sounds like he's exacerbated the issue by not stepping up years ago.

stepmooster · 12/12/2013 16:24

Do you think his mum is a narc? Mine was, she acted the same way in making sure I had no social life. My life was to revolve around her, she did not take my leaving home for uni 250 miles away very well at all.

I can quite imagine that if your dss was after a quiet life he might not be willing to wage war against his mum for his freedom. He may want to be more involved with your family but cannot. It might be why he answers questions the way he thinks will please mum/dad the most.

Sioda · 12/12/2013 16:29

DSS "what are we doing this weekend dad?"
DH "I'm bringing you to see a therapist at 2pm on Saturday because I think you could do with talking to someone outside of the family about the effect that my separation from your DM has had on you over the years. I'll come with you to begin with if you like or else I'll just bring you and wait for you to finish. It's something I probably should have done years ago and I'm sorry it's taken so long to suggest it."

If you and DH believe his DM has messed him up as badly as you describe then he needs more and better help than either you or DH can provide.

Sioda · 12/12/2013 16:32

Ah sorry crossed posts, see that's already been tried and he's refused it. Would he go to family counselling with DH if he knew it would be completely confidential and his DM wouldn't find out? Could your DH work out a way to persuade him to go along the lines of him wanting to strengthen their relationship or something, rather than DSS seeing it as being about something being 'wrong' with him?

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 16:52

Siona she questions him after EOW and he tells her everything. Even when he knows she will go crazy, he still tells her the truth.

stepmooster, yes, I think she's a narc. I'm aware (yes I do read the stately homes threads) that often adult children of narcs only realise they've been victims of abuse in their 30's. But the though of having an adult in their twenties - thirties coming for scheduled access visits and asking "what are we doing next dad" makes me feel like screaming.

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AmberLeaf · 12/12/2013 17:05

Yet I've asked about 4 times on here for suggestions and no-one has any

Many people have suggested that your DSS may have an ASD. Your DH could help him find out either way.

You have repeatedly dismissed it as a possibility.

Posting here purely to have a rant is ok, but if you ask for suggestions, but then poo poo them because you are fixed on the idea that this whole thing is because 1. your DSS is 'unwilling' to be any different or 2. because his Mum is awful, what else can anyone say?

Sioda · 12/12/2013 17:18

What would happen if your DH sat down with him and told him exactly what he thinks is going on with him? At 18 I don't think your DH has any more obligation to refrain from bad-mouthing his DM. What if he said something like 'I think you're sad and afraid because your DM is a narc who has emotionally abused you your whole life by making sure you have no friends and no autonomy because she needs you to be reliant on her etc. I feel I've let you down by allowing that to happen and I'd like to do everything I can now to support you to live a happier life in future.' Could DSS handle that? If his own DF doesn't tell him that he thinks he's being abused then who will?

At 18, the black and white truth-telling regardless of the consequences is, AFAIK, another massive red flag for ASD. I think you're rejecting suggestions about that because you really want this to be all about his DM and special needs might in some way 'let her off the hook' or that you'd then be expected to feel guilty for being so frustrated with him. To an outsider it looks very like a combination of both and actually makes her behaviour look worse rather than better.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 17:19

I happen to think anyone who abuses a child, whether physically or emotionally, is "awful", and I make no apologies for that.

With all due respect, you do not know him, you do not know what experience I have of SEN, you do not know which professionals DSS has seen over the years. I know the answer to all of those questions and I do not believe he is SEN. Neither does DH, any of DSS's teachers, or the professionals he has seen. If you think you know different, then bully for you. What is clear to anyone who DOES know DSS is that he is utterly terrified of his mother and as a result, very very compliant to her demands.

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Eliza22 · 12/12/2013 17:20

Amberleaf I too have noticed that. To me, this boy sounds very much on the spectrum. My son can only "tell it like it is" (the truth) even though he realises it might have a negative effect.

I don't believe a young man chooses to spend every waking moment either doing stuff with his mum or with his dad and his dad's partner who seems convinced that the young man is unwilling to do anything else.

Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 17:22

"At 18, the black and white truth-telling regardless of the consequences is, AFAIK, another massive red flag for ASD."

Interestingly though, he doesn't have the same compulsion for "telling the truth" about his mother. He very much tries to cover up for her.

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Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 17:25

He managed to get to mid wee open days on his own Confused. Travelling over the country to do so. However that was something his mum was happy for him to do

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Original poster
sequinsequins · 12/12/2013 17:26

mid week not mid wee Grin

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LittleBearPad · 12/12/2013 17:28

Well his mother's a bitch, that's certain. Poor kid.

A random thought, could you give him a key to your house. You could do it along with saying he's old enough to come and go as he wishes (with some notice). I know this may create other issues but it might be something tangible to show him he's grown up. If mum shouts then your DH will have to deal with her.

DS ucas form should have gone in by now as he's 18 I assume a levels are this coming summer. Can you find out what he picked. See of they are all local.