SS challenges our plans regarding "flexible visiting arrangements" - please help

[Petal02]

I?d really like your thoughts/advice on the events of the last 48 hrs.

It was all going really well; SS came to us on Weds for his midweek night, and was then back for the weekend, but we?ve been sensible and decided to pick him up on Sat morning, take him home at 6pm on Sunday, as a ?weekend? is Saturday/Sunday to most people. Everyone seemed relaxed, and yesterday I commented to DH that I was going to sit down with SS and the calendar, and work out some visiting dates for the next two weeks. DH was fine about it.

I proposed dates which basically meant alternate weekends plus a midweek night, although the midweek night was a Tues instead of a Weds on one occasion, and also weekends now run from Sat to Sun, rather than Thurs to Sun (we used to class Thurs as the midweek night if it was an access weekend). I thought SS would be happy with this, as it didn?t constitute any less access, just ?little and often? rather than the Thurs-Sun marathons.

But SS kept reiterating he wanted to go back to the rota, and couldn?t see any reason why we should be flexible. I responded that flexibility was the best way forward, given he?s now left school (he left on Friday ? although he?s likely to go to 6th form in Sept). It was a calm conversation, no raised voices, however we didn?t reach agreement. So SS seeks out DH, and tells him he?s not happy. DH tells SS he?ll think about it. I speak to DH, DH confirms SS is not happy, and promises to speak to him about it. I ask DH if he?s going to back down, DH says no, but that it needs to be handled delicately.

I then go out for an hour, knowing that discussions will take place in my absence. I get home to find there?s a definite atmosphere. So DH takes SS back home at 6pm and when he got back I asked him what happened. He said he hadn?t backed down (phew), and has told SS to ?give flexibility a go? and that after a few months if SS still isn?t happy, we can talk about it again ??.. fair enough, but I could tell DH was upset. He went on to say that SS hates change, that he?d had the rug pulled from under him when his parents split up, and that we need to tread very carefully. I replied carefully (not raising my voice) and said that whilst I took DH?s comments on board, we?re not creating huge changes for SS (it?s not like there?s a new school, new house, new baby to contend with), its only changing days, not reducing time. Also, (as I keep saying) SS is nearly 17, and he?s just left school. Surely he shouldn?t be quite so fragile? And, it?s 7 years since DH split with his ex ? just how long is DH supposed to continue with guilt parenting and compensatory behaviour??????

DH did concede that maybe he should make more efforts to promote flexibly by suggesting ad-hoc golf/pizza etc outside of planned visits. I?m fully in favour of this, it would bring about a more ?grown up? relationship with SS/DH, rather than the present childlike situation.

So whilst DH, to his credit, stood firm when challenged, it?s made me realise how shaky all this is. DH actually has quite similar views to me, regarding how things should be with someone of SS's age, but it?s clear that the execution of these plans, and the fear of upsetting SS, really troubles him.

Thoughts please.

Petal, for what it's worth, I don't think you are being that unreasonable, but that your SS for whatever reasons (can't cope, too immature or just lazy/babied too much/pandered to for too long) is reluctant to change in line with what has been suggested. I think if you take away the option for him to have a choice in how often/when he sees your OH/you, then you may well have more success. And by that I mean, help him carve out a life for himself i.e. spend more time with him figuring out what he wants, what will work, how to help him get onto further study with maybe some kind of part time work etc. That way, it's not you or your OH who is changing the contact, it's his circumstances that is dictating how things change. I just think you'll have more success that way, with your SS being less likely to make it personal/blame you or your OH or feel rejected somehow. He will have to grow up, he seems to just need more of a nudge in the right direction, as opposed to the 'tough love' approach (not that you are being that tough, but hopefully you get what I mean).

Maybe signing him up for a stint in the army would be a step too far... but I understand your thinking!

oh fgs.

read some of my posts over the years.

I know exactly what it is like to have a dh with a controlling, paranoid, demanding ex. she has controlled the children all the way thorugh (which is why we are still stuck with the bloody consent order, depsite the children being adults!); she has controlled everyhitng, right form the inital times. she has withheld access, and we have been to court several times over varous issues.

but yes, I do think you were all ridiculously naive if you walked into these situations "thinking" it owuld all be ok.

I was 23 when I moved in with my dh, so not too much older than you, rhirhi. my stepchildren were then 9 and 11.

lots of patterns had been set - mostly by their controllign mother. I was not to be consulted on anything, had no say in anyhting when they were with dh, coudl not be left alone with them (this was cited i ncourt evidence) - god alone knows what she thoguht would happen. the children did not have to listen to me, did not have ot ask me anyhitng, etc etc. (all this according to their mother - who, when it suited her, just threw all this out of the window and asked me to drive them to the other end of the country...)

I do know what it is like to be in the sitiuations you are all in.

but honestly, man up.

you are none of you doig n your step chidlren any good if you collude with your dhs/dps in carrying on the ridiculous farce.

we have had a huge struggle overturning some of dh's ex'x decrees on: monetary matters, schooling issues, issues in our house etc. but to ignore and carry on regardless is not the answer.

no, it doesn't work just picking up the phone to your dh's ex. nor does badgering and browbeating (either your dh/dp or your stepchildren). but if you are at all interested in helping to bring up as-well-adjusted-as-it-is-possible-to-be-in-the-circumstnances, then get reading, studying, talking to people who can help - find ways to introduce it.

when I met my dh, my dsd was not even dx'd. her mother was sending her to a special school (provate, paid for by dh) saying "oh, she's just a bit behind"

dsd is now dx'd (AS), has got through school, and been to uni. none of this happened overnight, and noen of it owuld have happened at all if dha nd I hadn't had many many long discussions abotu it all.

life is not easy, but giving up is not an option.

bloody hell, petal - you went ahead without the travel jabs, despite first wanting them?

couldn't you have gone to a travel clininc?

Silverfrog ? it was actually too late at this point for SS to have the vaccinations, even if we HAD taken him to a travel clinic. It was a course of two injections, which had to be spaced two weeks apart, the last one being at least six weeks before travel (or something like that). Our GP advised that if even if he were to give SS the first injection, it wouldn?t give him much protection without the second. And as our GP is a DOCTOR (obviously) we were happy to take his advice.

Given you know what it?s like to be in the same position as me, Allnew & co, I?m surprised you?re not more sympathetic.

Hammybobs ? I agree that it would be good if SS carved out a life for himself, we try to encourage him, but he?s never very interested !!!!!

no, petal, I won't ever be sympathetic to a child/teen not getting the help and support they need.

if it was too late for him to have his jabs (nad given past record, I have no idea why you expected his mother to take him along for these) then I would have cancelled - as I said in my earlier post, we have had to do this before now.

I would not have taken a child on a holiday, fully jabbed and protected myself, while hoping that "all will probably be ok" (hardly a ringing endorsement there fromt he doctor anyway, and ime, doctors are not always the best at knowing thses things - I have several times corrected gps on where exactly is a malarial area, for eg, - information it is easy to find out, yet they haven't known it )

quite frankly, I find that attitude horrifying.

you know I can kind of relate to petal's DSS. I was a quite teenager who didn't like the partying that all my friends seem to want to do. I wasn't sporty, so I didn't really have any hobbies in that way either. I rarely socialised at about that age and just studied and pottered about at home.

I wouldn't say I was clingy but I just liked being on my own without having to make any effort to try and be something I wasn't.

However, I was made to go and get a Saturday job - I hated it, but it was the best thing for me because although I hated the first job. I soon got a new one, which I loved and it gave me so much more confidence (and money!).

I really think your DSS needs a "push" into the big wide world but I also think he needs support and to know that he still has some "security" in his life too.

I think the ideal scenario is that DH pushes for flexibility while showing DSS that he is not being rejected or pushed away.

Maybe the starting point is a job? Paper round? Not much contact with people in doing that. What about DP taking him along to a sport which involves other people? If he likes computers could DP get him a Saturday job in a computer store? I think DP (with your help) is going to have to take the lead on this. DSS is not going to do it himself. I don't know how you persuade him though!

Is DSS going to college or staying on at school? Maybe being treated as "grown up" at school will help a bit?

Silverfrog - since you clearly consider yourself to be better qualified on medical matters than my GP, I'm not surprised you have such a pious attitude to other women.

petal, I do not consider myself better qualified on medical matters, and have necer said I did.

I did say that I have found GPs to occasionally be a little deficient in their knowledge of what travel jabs and medications are necessary.

And I said that I found you taking "it iwll probably be ok" as a goahead to take your ss abroad without the jabs that his father initially wanted him to have to be a position I would never understand, or undertake.

I am also not pious, and am nt the only poster on this thread who thinks you are doing oyur ss a disservice.

So precisely how do I help my SS? Neither his mother nor his father think there's a problem, and I suspect some 'tough love' may be more use than counselling.

As Allnew pointed out: NRPs have very few rights, step parents have even less.

Why don't you start a new thread about how to help an anxious teenager? Might be more helpful than having the discussion dominated by access arrangements.

Blimey - if DH were to take DSS for injections, there would be a war. When DS had the bare-faced audacity to contact DSS2's doctor for an inhaler to keep at our house (because his mother consistently send him to our house without one), she went absolutely ballistic and DSCs suffered the consequences of her anger for some time

edam it's funny you say that. I started a thread recently for help on how to 'help' DSS2 because he is being verbally abused by DSS1 on a consistent basis, there was no interest at all (4 posts, of which 2 were mine). Seemingly a DM trying to 'help' with the DSCs is a lot less interesting than the more contentious issue of access

Stewie - genuinely interested here. What exactly is it that you would say Petal's DH should do to 'help' his son? (in terms of attitudes/behaviour I mean, not access)

I think she needs ot work a LOT on getting her dh to accept his son has issues. not takeno for an answer. only she knows the best way to do this, but forcing the issue is probably not the best way.

develop an interest in documentaries on mental health, watch them together, talk abot them. read books about eg Asperger's teens (they can have very similar issues to what Petal's ss is exhibiting) and discuss them, again and again.

get the message through.

aside from that, I would seek advice form a behavioural consultant - Petal and her dh need to be able to get her ss motivated, and willing to learn an awful lot of things

to continue to allow her dh to ignore the elephant in the room is not going to help anyone.

So basically, the advice is that Petal's DSS needs external assessment. Well given that DSS1 is basically the same as Petal's in terms of the behaviours/issues he displays, maybe you'd think that we should get external assessment for him as well.

I can tell you now - that would cause an explosion of astronomical proportions (on behalf of his mother), under which he would suffer considerably. I daresay that following such an incident, he could only go on to suffer much more that he will from any issues he has at this stage.

Ditto.

The fall-out from any suggestion that SS needs therapy, would be far more harmful than perpetuating the present circumstances.

Just thinking about this some more - I'm trying to imagine (well, actually, I can't imagine) the tsunami that would result in my contacting SS's school, wanting to talk about his behaviour ........

A few years ago, I rang school, to enquire about the timings of a school trip. I correctly stated I was Mrs Jones, enquiring about the trip that StepSon Jones (made-up surname) was going on. Obviously when I married DH, I acquired his surname. So me, DH and SS all have the same surname. The ex is re-married, and is now Mrs Smith (made-up surname). Unfortunately the ex got to know that I'd phoned school, and went mad saying I was ringing school pretending to be SS's mother .......... of course this wasn't the case at all. School just ASSUMED I was SS's mother, because I have the same surname.

So with this in mind, you can see why contacting school might be a bad idea .......

In addition to this, DH would be VERY unhappy that I'd done it. So I'd just cause the most awful mess and nothing would come of it. Because why would the school take any notice of a stepmother when neither of the parents have rasied an issue?

exactly petal - us SM's are stuck between a rock and a hard place really because if neither parent thinks there is a problem we have no right to do anything about it because we are 'just' the step parent however we are quite often the one stuck in the middle of it.

I think petal that maybe you should do some research online and look up teenage behavioural issues and see what they suggest. It might be something like introduce them to a club or something then in which case u could possibly put it foward to ur DH in a different way than implying that there may be a 'problem' just maybe say o look i've found a day activity thing for example do u think DSS might like it if we booked him in. Then tell DSS about it. If of course ur DH will go along with it. That way DSS doesn't have the option really to back out but may have a great time and meet some friends and then it could maybe be introduced as a more regular thing. Then maybe u could get the local paper and see if there is a job in a quiet shop maybe a couple of days a week. That way he has a bit of an introduction into an adult life without it being too overwhelming and see if he progresses. That way if nothing changes if this sort of thing is introduced ur DH may realise that some different kind of action may need to be taken.

DSS maybe doesn't know how to behave in certain situations as he may have been given the 'option' not to rather than no choice but to join in. I think many step kids are given too many options so keep them happy which doesn't always have the desired results.

Just had a thought is it your DH or DSS birthday anytime soon? I know it may not be ur type of thing but the 3 of you could do a cookery class or something that was DSS is getting interation but also learning some basic skills

Just a thought.

rhirhi - you have made some excellent suggestions there for how Petal could go about getting her ss doing somethign (and her dh!) - somehtign which could be built on.

Petal - I suggested a behavioural consultant: you could consult one yourself, about how to move forward with a situation like this. how to suggest things to your dh and ss, how to deal with your dh's head-in-sand attitude, how to move forward as a family (like it or not, that is what you are)

I am completely familiar with the situations both you and allnew describe.

Unfortunately, the paths you are both currently taking leave (and I am only going by what you have described here and previously, and allnew's assertion that her ss is the same) vulnerable young adults with probable social, emotional behavioural and mental health issues to flounder.

if you can be happy doing that then carry on as you are. allnew - I take it you wouldn't leave your own children to flounder in such a way? even if your dh refused to see there was an issue? then you should not leave your stepchildren in such difficulties either.

please don't just come back and tell me I don't understand - there is pretty much no part of having step children with a controlling mother I have not experienced. but my view has always been if I would go out on a limb to fight for somehting if it happened to my (obviously initially hypothetical) children, then I shoudl do so for my step children - I took on that duty of care when I first moved in with and then married my dh. and part of it (a large part) has also been getting dh to understand the issues first of all.

I don't think the point is that you should be the one to do something as a SM, I think the point is that its difficult for many people to understand the thought process that seems to go " My SS needs help, there's something amiss. Nobody else wants to admit it though, so I'll ignore it too and instead concentrate on how to keep him out of my house as much as I can, and have plenty of time with the DH who won't even talk about his sons problems, as he finds him draining"

I appreciate your difficulties, but this is how you've made it sound. And it sounds...bad.

But hellno petal isn't ignoring it as she's asking for advice on here about what to do after already talking to her DH. Surely that is pro active and also shows she cares and wants to help him. Also by the sounds of things DSS's mother is difficult so even if petal was the fairy godmother of stepmums whats to say that it will change anything in her SS if his mother won't back up the changes??

The problem here is your DH's denial about the problems your SS has. They are very obvious social, emotional and maybe mental health problems. Also the fact that the DH is willing to put your lives on hold, drop everything and treat the SS as a guest in your house.

The person who needs tackling is the DH, not the SS.

'SS desperately needs to be more independent, to think for himself a little, make decisions on how he wants to spend his time, rather than accepting being shuttled between two houses as per the rota.' Apart from the fact that this is not the way to go about creating a young man who is more independent and can think for himself, you are missing the main problem what you desperately need here is a DH who is willing to take off the blinkers and get his DS into counselling for his social anxiety. Maybe family therapy so the DH can explore his state of denial and unwillingness to be an effective dad to this boy.

Just thought of a suggestion - no idea how possible or appropriate this is - would you be able to look into your SS doing something with the Prince's Trust? I had a friend who took some time our of her job to work with them and got the opportunity to work with animals. It was the opening that she was looking for, and then subsequently got a job working at the dog's trust as a result of the time she spent with the PT. I also know another friend whose son had a very bad stammer. He was very self conscious of it, but his time working with the PT made a huge difference to his confidence, and he even did some public speaking at the end of his time there. I'm struggling to describe it as I don't know if it's a course, volunteering or something else, and I've no idea how you go about applying etc.

Just a thought. Might be something that would help your SS take the next step he needs.