applying for residence order and parental responsibility for me (stepmum) - mother going nuts!

[ladydeedy]

hello
sigh.. sorry, another post (have only just come across this site in the last few days and cant seem to stay away right now!).
Anyway... DH and I are applying for a residence order for his son who has come to live with us and wants to stay (and we want him to stay too!). All happy there. He is 14 and very clear that he doesnt want to go back and live with his mum.
We are making a joint application so that I would also have parental responsibility. This is because DH often abroad for work and it means that practical stuff for son can be dealt with by me if necessary, e.g. signing school/medical forms, without me having to find the mother and get her to sign.
So we thought it would all be a matter of course but...
the mother now going apopleptic with rage saying she doesnt give a f*ck that he lives with us but that she absolutely wont allow ME to have any "legal rights" over the son and will fight tooth and nail as she "doesnt trust me".
Not quite sure how I feel about that, given that I have been his stepmother for years and we have a great relationship! Also if she is happy for me to care for him, then why the big issue over any parental responsibility?
I guess this means she will contest. I dont have a problem with that personally but think this may cause anxiety to the son who may have to go through interviews etc with cafcass as a result.
In addition I'm thinking... any lawyer would ask questions about why she is so adamant and would advise her to forget about it? She basically chucked him out and took his key off him - I'm not sure her view about parental responsibility would really holds much value in the eyes of the court? (although of course she is still his mother).
any thoughts or advice out there? Anyone else been through this? and if so, my sympathies!!

But surely you can see that you are.

ivykaty44, if you have little knowledge of the situation, you don't know what she is doing (i.e. what effect or meaning it might have for anyone involved) so you don't have good grounds for not liking it.

"....then why the big issue over any parental responsibility?"

Because while she may frustrated by her son's behaviour, she gave birth to him, and she loves him despite what she may say in a moment of exasperation. And she probably has hopes of things improving when the dust settles. Very few mothers cut their children out of their lives forever. There are very few black and white cases of outright mutual hatred between mothers and children where the last word is spoken and the relationship is ended.

Don't pretend not to understand that she loves him and the 'official' relationship between the child and the mother is very important to her. Don't pretend you are not trying to take that from her in any way -- you are. What you are contemplating is setting you up on a par with her as co-mothers of this boy.

The way to deal with whatever impasse may have developed (it takes two to make an impasse, btw) is for all of you to step back and compromise, not opt for mutual assured destruction. Which will happen if you persist in this unwise effort.

(Apologies to all the step-mothers who do a great job with their step-children, love them, and have a lovely relationship with them, often in the teeth of great difficulties. I do not mean to disparage your relationships here -- but I feel the OP does not understand she comes across, to me, as someone whose position has become entrenched, who might be more willing to compromise if she had to pay a solicitor instead of using the services of a family friend, and who seems willing to bully the mother into acquiescence here by forcing her to seek legal advice she may or may not be able to afford.)

you dont need PR, DSS lives with me and DH and has done since he was 14, I have always taken him to doctors, dealt with school, etc, when DH was working away, DH simply took me to school and introduced me, put me on their contact forms.

It was never formalised, we just did it that way.

You are wasting your time totally going to court to establish residency for a 14 year old who wants to live with you, and any solicitor who tells you different is simply after your money.

I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT you mean well, but the courts work on a no order principle, by the time this gets to court, DSS will be 15 (if you are lucky and it happens quickly) and I very much doubt any judge will see the point in issuing an order for a child that age, who can simply walk with his feet, unless there is fear of abduction.

The ex cannot issue instructions to the school that counter act the requests of the RP, and in fact neither can the NRP, its to stop the school getting drawn into conflicts and is new government guidance, so for example DHs ex cannot say that I cannot pick DSD up from school, to the school, unless there is an order with that specific clause.

If they did (espeically a 14 year old) they are inbreach of government guidance and you need to take that up with the school, I used to have a copy of the relevant guidance, provided to me by our solicitor

and i will add, it most def does not take 2 to make an impasse

that aside i agree with a lot of the posters, DSS was difficult, violent and hated his mother, I took on a mothering role while encouraging him to maintain contact with his very difficult mother, even though he professed to hate her, because

a) I didnt want him to have any regrets when he was older
and
b) I wanted to know I had done my best for him and although my opinion of his mother couldnt be lower, thats for me and DH to know as it doesnt benefit DSS, and I think maintaining a relationship with a parent, even a crap one, is very important for a child

In actual fact, if the boy is now 14, and it went to court, the court would take the wishes of the boy into consideration as he is now old enough to be able to make his own mind up. He is old enough to state where he wants to live.

ivykaty44

You thinking of in loco parentis?

In a situation as serious as this I think an open-minded approach and concern for the child should be paramount rather than the mother's feelings.

There are forms/court procedures in place for step parents to acquire PR. This was obviously developed at some point over recent years due to the amount of second families forming and more children living with a step-parent.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to the judge is the welfare of the child concerned. If a judge feels it is in the interests of the child to award PR to a 3rd adult then it will be done.

If OP is granted PR in addition to the child's own mother then that can only be a good thing for the child.

He will then have the benefit of 3 people who can legally support him in whatever situation arises.

If PR was so minimal as is suggested then there would not be a procedure for it in the courts. PR is a hugely important issue for the child.

It is quite clear though that it is viewed as some type of territory of the biological parent. Totally nothing to do with the welfare of the child concerned.

see here it states, "person who has care of a child" also see here [[http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/p/parentalresponsibility/ here re parental responsibility definition for schools includes people with whom the child lives

Definition of parent
Section 576 of the Education Act 1996 defines 'parent' as:

all natural parents, whether they are married or not
any person who, although not a natural parent, has parental responsibility for a child or young person
any person who, although not a natural parent, has care of a child or young person (having care of a child or young person means that a person with whom the child lives and who looks after the child, irrespective of what their relationship is with the child, is considered to be a parent in education law)

any school that stops a person with home the child lives from collecting that child is not acting on current guidance, and you really should take that up with school OP

sorry this is the second link

dfes guidance

School and LEA staff must treat all parents equally, unless there is a court order limiting an individual's exercise of parental responsibility. Individuals who have parental responsibility for, or care of, a child have the same rights as natural parents, for example:

To receive information, e.g. pupil reports
To participate in activities, e.g. vote in elections for parent governors
To be asked to give consent, e.g. to the child taking part in school trips
To be informed about meetings involving the child, e.g. a governors' meeting on the child's exclusion.
The welfare of a child will be the paramount consideration for schools. However, where a parent's action or proposed action conflicts with the school's ability to act in the child's best interests, the school staff should try to resolve the problem with that parent but should avoid becoming involved in the conflict.

I would say it is clearly not in the best interests of the child for a person with care, ie, someone that child lives with, not to be allowed to collect said child from school

OP whoever is advising you should have known all of this, certainly our solicitor did, perhaps they are not family law specialists?? and they are def out of date

Well, there's certainly a lot of aggression out there and I am wondering why you feel the need to be so hostile when in fact my question was has anyone else been through this and any learnings.
CarGirl, his father did not abandon him. The mother had an affair and left the marriage. The father did not abandon anyone.
The school incident I gave as an example dates back to when the son was in primary school and he didnt live with us. He does now of course.
When I suggested that we were at an impasse, I actually meant the discussion on here - given the raging hostility! but you didnt read it that way obviously...
As for the comment about doing the legal stuff "on the cheap" thanks for that jibe. You dont know our situation.

I wonder how many of the posters on here who are dishing it out to the OP are actually step parents? IME most step parents absolutely do not want to replace the parents.

The OP's DSS is 14. In 4 years time, the need for PR will be long gone and his mother will still be his mother and the OP will still be his step mother. You absolutely cannot take that relationship away, no one is taking PR away from his mother.

OP - it sounds like you really have your DSS's best interests at heart and hopefully in time he can mend his relationship with his mum, but it sounds like he could really do with an extra (note, not replacement) person in his life who is there for him. I don't have any practical advice as I've never been through the court system, but I wish your DSS all the best.

Cargirl you said "Also how would she feel like handing it all over without fighting it? Like she doesn't care, she doesn't count?????"

Handing over what? She chucked him out of the house and he lives with us now. What is she handing over exactly? DSS is simply gaining an additional "parent", she's not having her parenthood taken away so I dont understand the "fighting against"...

Anyway, as some of the more rational people out there have said, the court will decide, what is in DSS's best interest based on what they have learnt, when the first hearing takes place in 2 weeks time.

I had believed this forum was meant to be a place where people can go for positive and supportive advice and guidance related to parenting issues. How misguided was I!

LadyDeedy - If he already lives with you, what's the beef with PR? Why do you need parental responsibility? Roll with it for a year, see if there are any instances when having PR would have materially altered the way you live your life. If you want to help your stepson, it really is better for him if you don't engage in this rather spiteful and vincictive battle. How is it going to help him exactly. He's 14, he doesn't need picking up from school. If she really is a danger to the teen, then you need to contact social services and the police. PR isn't going to do anything for the boy is it? Perhaps you should examine your motives (they seem pretty clear to me) and discover why it is you are being so intentionally malevolent and shit stirring towards your husband's ex wife -- the way you are going on about her, anyone would think you were jealous of her?

sweedes why do you think the OP is being spiteful and vindictive?

Why are you so concerned about protecting the feelings of the ExW when infact the only feelings that matter are that of the lad?

Ladydeedy - MN is not necessarily the best place to come for support as a Stepmum. There are some pretty hostile attitudes towards step parents on MN (esp. stepmums)

Seriously.

"I'm such a martyr and the ex is psycho" shtick is absolutely horrible but very common for stepmothers.

The ex may well be unreasonable but I very much doubt she doesn't love her son. Therefore she deserves not to be gratuitously hurt -- how does that help? The son already lives with his father and OP. Do the right thing by doing the best for him and teaching him how to have kind and respectful relationships.

The OP doesn't sound spiteful and vindictive to me. She sounds like her reasons for gaining residency and PR are solely for the child's interests and practicality. Whereas it sounds like the ex's reasons against it could be down to her own feelings and not wanting to feel less of a mother to her child. That's not exactly child centred.

The Mother will be no less a mother. No-one can take away the fact she carried her son for 9 months and gave birth to him. She'll have nothing taken from her. All that happens is the son gets an extra "parent".

Everyone saying that there is no reason to get PR to be involved in school/medical reasons and you can easily do it without ... if only it were that simple. Fathers who HAVE PR still come up against uninformed people within schools/medical departments who refuse to do anything for them/provide them with any information because they are not the "mother". A lot have to battle to be considered an equal parent.

Sweeedes, do calm down. To suggest I am jealous of my husband's ex is plain ridiculous.
She is a mess and her life is completely out of control. I feel sorry for her, if anything.

OP - How long has the boy lived with you?

Actually he doesn't get an extra parent, he already has one. It's just a piece of paper that will make things a little less complicated.

LadyDeedy - He's lived with you for a few short weeks and his mother is depressed (I see from your other thread). And you are straight into formalising the arrangement and varying maintenance "she won't like that". Yuk. Have you no heart?

You really aren't helping your DSS by destroying his mother.

Sweeedes, get over yourself please.
Yes the mother does suffer from depression - will not seek help despite being offered it by GP.
Often used to turn up with boys at no notice crying and hysterical saying she couldnt cope and we just got on with looking after them until she felt able to have them back.
Yes there will be a variation on the maintenance order and yes we will claim the child benefit that is due to us, as he resides with us.
And yes she will not like that, clearly, but then again, she is the one who threw him out and has to accept responsibilty for herself and her actions.
What is your problem with that?